Forum - View topicPR: CBLDF Disappointed by Guilty Plea in Handley Manga Case
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animeuserone
Posts: 10 |
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God! 15 years in prison 8O . Whistle. Sucks to be him
I read some of the articles and like most readers, it is very hard to stay what happened exactly that caused this person to be arrested and finally be convinced. I believed that alot more happended than was reported. Court documents should have been sealed or gag-ordered so some of the facts have not appeared. Handley should have some kinky and possibly more dangerous habit that had to do with the manga/animes or other forms of porn he owned. But since the documents were not produced, it is hard to say what Handley did. What we do know is that he owned some risque manga and have it in the state of Iowa. Iowa could have laws prohibiting the ownership or transport of which materials. If Handley know that his actions were considerd illegal, then I think he deserved to be prisoned. If he deserves 20 years in prison for ownership of books, I agree with the majority of no. His crime did not endangered actual society as a whole or used harm/violence/death. If he did this to society, then he deserves to have a longer sentence. Manga/anime/comics is confusing 1st amendment and cultural issues. There needs to be some restrictions on what we do in society I think. Though most magna is harmless and fun to read (like Chobits, Bleach, Angel Santacury), some of those works (like a Anarchy Cookbook) should be used for violence where they promote its usage and someone gets actually hurt. Most if not all manga/anime do not do this, but underground rarely known manga should. I do not know of any to my knowledge but in this crazy world, who knows. With culture differences, we have to be knowledgeable that some things that fly in Japan don't fly here. Americans should misinterpect manga/anime as porn from all the nakeness easily. I'm sure all of you have felt some degree of shock, shaken, and disguist when you started anime/manga. I thik if companies or if we tell (through very optism) what it is really about calmly about it without some wacko (one poster wanted to use a gun to defend his manga), I think we will be better understood and have greater respect as otakus. However majortiy always wins and it will be hard to reserve the course if a law passes to prohibit some or all manga/anime and the majority of Americans will support it (though I believe backlash should caused it to be repel for its return eventually). However if we are to support manga, we may have to face hard chooses. Our opponents, whoever they may be, will use the fact that we love naked (which is common in certain anime/manga genres) scences as hypocriticism for our hatred of porn (whatever hentai or Playboy). We either have to discontinue reading it entirely, accept some or support all forms of nudity. Nudity issues will be a issue, and will make or break our community if manga/anime availablity is to be endangered. Finally, we need to stop being a such of paranoid freaks over all ban issue. No laws have been legislated (like in Iowa) to enforce manga official ban anywhere as far as I know. We are being chicken littled over the issues and people who want permenant censorship will use it as an excuse to stay our behavior shows why anime/ manga is dangerous. Thank you for reading this. I know this was long but I love Jpop and I'm willing to defend my rights to protect it as best as can. Hope to hear from you. Last edited by animeuserone on Sun May 24, 2009 3:11 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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First of all, there is no evidence that Handley is a child molester or that he had any real child porn. And if there were, I'm sure we would have found out about it, as there have been actual cases of pedophiles having anime/manga child porn AND the real thing. It is not unusual for evidence in court cases to be sealed but I'm sure if was anything involving actual children we would know about it. Actually, from what I understand, the prosecution didn't even try to find out whether or not the DRAWINGS were of children. It looked like children to them so they assumed they were minors. Plus from I heard it was only a few images that Handley claimed he had never even looked at, probably because they were seized in the mail before they even got to him. And yes, it's also possible that he didn't know that the manga contained those images.
While it's true that there has been no major crackdown on anime and manga yet, this case is a cause for concern. The problem is that to most mainstream Americans, anime/manga is strange and there is still the prevailing idea that it's all pornographic. Of course, some of it is pornographic and/or addresses taboo topics. But I don't think censorship is the answer; education is. That's why I would like to see anime and manga taken out of the "nerd closet". Yes, we and our strange hobby have been and will be ridiculed, and in cases like this, persecuted but I think it would be best if what we liked were better understood. As for "cultural differences" as it pertains to what is acceptable forms of entertainment; don't forget that we too have our own questionable forms of entertainment. (GTA, anyone?) Also, we have to remember that Handley was convicted on an obscenity crime, not child porn. I'm sure that a lot of the stuff that I and others on this forum like would probably be considered obscene and/or child pornography by those who convicted Mr.Handley. Just because you're not looking at lolicon or shota doesn't mean you're safe because to those outside the fandom, it's all the same. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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This leads me to wonder: could these unfortunate results have been otherwise if he hadn't pleaded guilty?
By my preliminary understanding, by pleading as he did, he admitted he that the material he possessed was 'obscene'; a term I would challenge for being too subjective. Is such a word strictly defined in those courts? |
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animeuserone
Posts: 10 |
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I think you (rin) are right with some areas. I did read some actual cases on this site that involved real material and I thought they deserved to go to jail. I do agree that with the Hardley case involved actual real child porngraphy, it would have leak to the press through with gag order it could be possible that both sides know that if they were to leak anything that it would harm their cases. Handley for being a perv and prosecutors for being over zealous for enforcing lewd laws. This can also apply to charges of crimes and their sentences if the gag order is in place.
I also criticized Handley for not standing for his rights. To prevent complete banning of manga/anime as some posters have say by taking the fall is riducolous (mis). I think he should have stayed the course and aired the injustices he faced. He should have showed that Iowa law and its enforcers were wrong in their accusations, and he deserved to have his privacy and books. But with taking the fall, one wonders if he was really guilty of the crimes he faced. He had a defense fund that should have entitled him to have the paided testimony of experts in art, sociology, law, and history that would define what otakus, manga, and anime is really about. He should have reappeled and have his case in legal hell for years. It should have made Iowa law look foolish and its enforces look like utter fools. He should have made Iowa give up through the hell and drop the charges. But he decided to take the fall and it is a blow to the community. Handley is possibly thinks that he will get out in early in priosn through good behavior or a plea deal, but he made the point by saying that manga (even if it was good kind) he had was illegal and it applies maybe to all J-pop in the end eventually. Shame to Handley for not taking any considerations for other rights but himself 
Well, that it. Bye and shame to Handley!!! |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Well, to be fair, Handley didn't exactly have the best defense lawyer. Plus they made his life a living hell even before the trail. He wasn't allowed access to any anime/manga material and websites, including THIS website. And he had to go into therapy and was closely monitored. So in the end he probably thinking more about ending this torture than about what kind of precedent this will set. Course, he's still screwed.
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animeuserone
Posts: 10 |
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I haven't read about the lawyer problems or his therapy . But wonder why if he know if he was in the right, why he plead guilty?
 I think it is strange that he is ban from ann, but ann should have milking the story and its own reputation for what it was worth to them  .
It could be also be true that Handley was bullied by psychological stresss over the incidnt. I think it chould have happend. But with Iowa being far off, people lying (both the government and anime/manga industry) by using the case for their own purposes, it is hard to say what exactly happen behind the scenes in question. Somehow by gut says alot of bull1@5& happended by both sides. That's it |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I had an officer ask me if people could get hentai anywhere other than in an adult bookstore. As soon as I said one can get it in most comic shops or off the net, the officer didn't care anymore. His client was ordered by the court to not enter any adult bookstore. It doesn't sound as though Handley had anyone like me over on the court enforcers side who could advise the officers assigned to the case on such matters as sites like ANN are not porn. Officers know the law. They don't know every little thing about life so they likely take a "better safe than sorry" approach to enforcing orders. I've worked with officers who view everyone on their caseload as guilty. Someone like Handley who, from what we've seen, has no prior record should be viewed as someone who's made a mistake & not a hardened criminal, but too many people who deal with the law on the state's side do seem to lean toward seeing everyone as criminal. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8500 Location: Penguinopolis |
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15 years of prison for drawings.
Wow, I can't even come up with a quip here. Just read that first line and let it sink in. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I'd say that sentencing hasn't come down yet but just a statement of the highest penalties he could face. So instead of jumping to the conclusion that Mr. Handley got the maximum penalty from a plea bargain, let's wait and see what he actually gets. I imagine it won't be the maximum. |
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animeuserone
Posts: 10 |
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I agree with you, red. We don't know if he is going to get the maximum. Hope ann still cover it through
 . They have to milk this cow for all it value 
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I think he just ended up with the wrong kinds of lawyers who didn't want to waste time with a case that they hadn't researched the materials properly. They didn't know anything about anime and manga or Japan, and probably didn't care. Sucks for him.
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LagannImpact
 Posts: 574 |
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That's right. And there's also a chance this case will be thrown out for being utterly ridiculous (albeit a small one at this point.) I'll bet we'll be seeing a lot of "Free Handley" paddles at local cons for a while! 
That someone could get 15 years in prison just for owning a drawing of something obscene and illegedly underage is ridiculous. There's a huge difference between real-life child porn and lolicon hentai, and that is that in the former case, A REAL CHILD is involved. The only victim in this crime is the one who committed it, it seems to me.
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animeuserone
Posts: 10 |
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I did more reading of it. There are two legal and government documents about it. One from Iowa U.S. Disctrict courts and other from Omaha FBI branch. I'm not joking. Go to Google and type in Chris Handley legal documents. Go to the first link on first page on the very top of the list. You could click and see the poster name of Jayce. I hope this helps you all.
Yeah, people are going to make a buck off someone else pain. We would see what happens first. If we gets 5 years in prison, I don't really worry about it. If it is more than that, I would question it. I don't know if money was a issue for Handley. He had some 1200 items in his collection. He must have money for it somewhere? With CBLDF, Handley got $2400 for research and $15000 for expert testimony. Research money I wonder about. How much does it take to go to Japan or anywhere? If they were going onsite research, I would understand. But if it was computer networks and databases, I wouldn't think that it wouldn't be that expensive. Unless you were paying for the researchers.
Experts, I dunno. Depends on what the person wants to be paid. But I sure with that money, he could have gotten some decent ones. Anyways, about the documents. Its saids, as before stated, it involved young minor girls with alot of hentai overtone such as oral, anal, and vaginal sex. It also involved beastility. However there are no pictures or titles of the work to show what they were. Handley's lawyer claims it was a yaoi right? This does not sound like any yaoi. Either Handley haves the stupidest lawyer in the world, or they , as other poster on this site said, were trying to make this into a gay rights issue. It would have been the Achilles' heel. Imaginary Court Scence 
Prosecutor: Mr. Handley, can you tell us what a yaoi is? Handley: It is a manga with legal Japanese boys having homoerotic relationship? P: How Mr. Handley. We have seven books full of these drawings and most of them have minor girls going things of a sexual nature that were not licensed but shipped independtly here. Is this yaoi? H: No
Sigh!  So stupid. From what I know, U.S. Immigration and Customs (ICE) opened the package. From what I read (can't remeber where), Handley was allowed to take the package home but was followed by government agents to arrest him. Stupidity on the government part. Why didn't they arrest him on the spot if they thought something was wrong and then go check his place without following him. Hello, we have a package with his address. You could use that as a clue to find his house after you arrest him! It so embarrassing we have people in our government, looking like wandering idiots following people around instead of arresting the person on the spot. No wonder we can't find Osama!
I'm not taking any side for Handley, the goverment, or the anime/industry. All are idiots to me with this case and we, the average law-biding citizen, may lose our rights to look at manga/anime. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15550 |
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I'm just waiting for someone to get arrested for buying The Aristocrats in the mail.
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ConanSan
Posts: 1818 |
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And here's the halerious part, The already ailling industry will take a huge blow out of this. Companies will have to think for a moment before they liecnce stuff (I still say that Bokurano looks dodgy) and people will be hesitent to buy stuff in fear of good ol' BB 'vapourizing' them.
because it isn't what the actual legal president that matters, it's what everyone thinks the legal president is. |
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