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NEWS: Japan Cartoonists Association, Others Oppose New Child Pornography Revision Bill


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animefanworried



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 126
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:50 am Reply with quote
Update: Anyone who thought this bill was targeting the anime/manga/video game industry and was a blatant attempt at censorship in a wide scale, well you were right. Apparently, they want to keep the clause about fiction in at all cost. They are also talks of eventually including depictions of murder and suicide down the line. And Junior Idols will not be affected in the least either. So as far as were concerned they're only dealing with the real CP issue as a compromise (especially since Junior Idols are a ok to them), anime was what they were after all along.
http://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2013/06/14/quick-update-stakes-rise-in-japanese-child-pornography-law-revision-debate/


So this isn't even about protecting the rights of fictional characters (which was bad enough), its about censorship for its own sake. Gee, I feel better, how about you guys Rolling Eyes
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 6773
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:24 am Reply with quote
Judging from what I've read in that article, it seems that virtually ALL visual mediums within Japan are just one bill away from being criminalized. The future of the anime/manga/gaming industry is really getting bleaker by the day. Sad
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6354
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:55 am Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
Judging from what I've read in that article, it seems that virtually ALL visual mediums within Japan are just one bill away from being criminalized. The future of the anime/manga/gaming industry is really getting bleaker by the day. Sad


Well as I said, good bye anime and manga, you were awesome one time. Crying or Very sad

Looks like this is it, and I guess South Korea can replace my Asian pop culture fix (K-pop, K-drama).

Japan should've focused on globalizing anime and manga, but J-pop and J-drama and now Japan is falling behind their Korean counterpart. Instead they've went more backward by passing this bill which could be the end of the anime/manga industry. This is shameful for Japan, and now I'm afraid anime and manga will be dead not only in Japan but worldwide.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:37 pm Reply with quote
@mdo7

First, it hasn't passed yet. I hope they realized the mistake with Bill 156 and don't take it easy this time. They need to do a massive PR campaign.

Quote:
Well as I said, good bye anime and manga, you were awesome one time. Crying or Very sad

Looks like this is it, and I guess South Korea can replace my Asian pop culture fix (K-pop, K-drama).

More like say goodbye to manhwa and games and any Korean media with fictional teenagers. Did you know something nearly the same as this has already passed in S. Korea?

This issue is something completely unknown outside Korea, but it seems Korean fans are aware of this. I don't know Korean, but I found out incidentally from a Korean fansub group, Team CherryBoyz:

Search for: 청소년의 성보호에 관한 법률에
(The Act on the Protection of Juveniles)

Apparently 미래일기 (Mirai Nikki / Future Diary) was targeted!

snippets of a long post translated by the fansub group:
Quote:

Articles
[1] Juvenile Sexual Media(child pornography) is that the people, who are children and teens or able to recognize as underage, or matters appear in media which contact anything on article [2].

And describe the other sexual activities in forms of films, videos, games, computers and visual communication medias.
[ . . . ]
And it refers to action on the underage or to the underage to break the law following articles.

a. Sexual intercourse.
b. Analogous sexual intercourse which use the parts of the body such as oral or anal and utilise the tools.
c. The action that can cause sexual humiliation or disgust to ordinary people by naked, contacting or exposing the parts of the body.
d. Masturbation.

The boundary of the Act of Juvenile Sex Protection : There are not any animation's violate precedent until now. Obscene or not can only decided by judge. So that, any kind of animations which contain pornographic or obscene contents whether or not, you should follow the law.

For pertinent example : While students present, to expose and demonstrate sexual intercourse. (contain factors which can cause sexual desires)


Recapitulation : There is not any clear norms in the Act of Juvenile Sex Protection. Indeed, police officers regard 'Mirai Nikki' as pornographic.
(the police's enforcement and Judge's law are seperated. First, in case of police, if they have any doubt or not, they arrest, after that, it is all up to judge)

2013.04 - 2013.11 is crackdown period.


I found this older post warning against the proposal last year, in the context of anime:
http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=qnah1007&logNo=90154397064

And this which discusses the law in general:
http://berkeleyopinion.com/329
http://www.law.go.kr/lsInfoP.do?lsiSeq=116790&efYd=20120916#0000

Quote:

On the Protection of Children and Youth Act
[Trial 16.09.2012] [law No. 11048, 15.09.2011, amended tabeop] View terror laws
Ministry of Gender Equality and Family (Child and Youth Care Unit St.) 02-2075-8783


There seems to be some mention of entrapment, which the is probably what the crackdown period and/or usage of Mirai Nikki alludes to

I'm just using google translate, so this is all very rough apart from that group's message, and someone else needs to dig further if they want more details
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6354
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:33 pm Reply with quote
@Configspace: I know it hasn't pass yet and I hope it doesn't. Well I'm not interested in Manhwa, even if it doesn't have fictional teenagers in it, the story is what count. Korean mobile video game has gotten a bit more popular thanks to the hallyu, you can watch about it here. Korean dramas can replaced my anime and manga (unless Japan can start exporting more J-drama), and K-pop is getting more popular since Japan failed to give J-pop the same breakout like K-pop (there still time for J-pop to gain the same popularity like their Korean counterpart if they put more effort into globalizing the genre like Korea did). This make anime fans and J-pop ask why didn't Japan cash in on the K-pop fad. AKB48 and EXILE would've gotten the same level of popularity like Girls Generation and Super Junior if they were heavily promoted outside of Asia. A lot of our J-pop groups and artists could compete with Korean counterpart on international scale like:

-Arashi could compete with SHINee, SS501, TVXQ, and JYJ.

-other J-pop boybands like D-Date, KAT-TUN, Kanjani Eight, Hey! Say! JUMP!, NYC, Kis-my-ft2, Sexy Zone, and A.B.C-Z could compete with K-pop counterpart like ZE:A, U-KISS, 2PM, 2AM, MBLAQ, BEAST/B2ST, BtoB, Nu'est, Infinite, VIXX, and Teen Top.

-Same for J-pop Girl bands like Berryz Kobo, C-ute, S/Mileage, Morning Musume, Buono!, Passpo, 9nine, Dream, E-girls, Tokyo Girls Style, Super Girls, and Momoiro Clover Z could compete with their Korean counterpart like Wonder Girls, f(x), KARA, Brown-eyed Girls, She'z, Girl's Day, Apink, T-ara, After School, Ladies Code, Hello Venus, SECRET, SPICA, Dal Shabet, Sunny Hill, and RaNia. Perfume could compete with SISTAR.

-I always thought SCANDAL and Flumpool could compete with FT Island and CNBlue.

Although if this bill pass, it could probably kill the anime/manga industry in Japan and worldwide. Also to add to the insult, It's not safe for J-pop music to stay in Japan/Asia because Japan's dramatic population decline would hurt the Japanese music industry. The RIAJ has acknowledged this. I'll quote an important part of this article:

Peter Dyloco of Japan Today wrote:
Across the Sea of Japan, the Japanese music industry is struggling to keep its head above the water. The 2010 figures from The Recording Industry Association of Japan indicate declines of 6% (volume) and 5% (value) in Japan’s digital music market compared with the same figures from 2009. Internet downloads also experienced a 1% decline, falling to 10.1 billion yen in total revenue. Total market size fell by 8.3% in 2010. Though it remains the second largest market for music in the world, Japanese pop could certainly use some of the vigor and enthusiasm so closely associated with the meteoric rise of its Korean counterpart.

The fact of the matter is this: With Japan’s population in chronic decline, the size of its domestic market is bound to shrink – a fact acknowledged and recognized by the RIAJ itself. Groups like AKB48 may work domestically, but their appeal is limited by cultural factors—13-year-old girls jumping around in miniskirts may not necessarily fly with consumers outside of Japan. Catering to broader audiences both domestically and internationally will be key to the revival of the Japanese music industry.

Products, however, do not market themselves. Unlike their Korean pop equivalents, most Japanese labels are allergic to promoting their artists’ work abroad. Some, like Johnny’s Entertainment, have even gone so far as to actively delete every promotional video of new and old releases from YouTube. How can Japanese artists pick up new fans if promotional videos are only available to people who already know about the artist in question?


Tempest also back up that article regarding J-pop, and he told me this:

Tempest wrote:
That said, Japan's industry was doing around US$5B in sales at it's peak, sales have already dropped 50% in the last 15 years, and with the population now declining they're only going to drop faster unless Japan can start exporting it's music.


So the only way for Japan's music industry to survive is for Japan to export J-pop outside of Asia meaning Japan will have to give J-pop the same type of push like Korea did for K-pop. Also if K-pop get more popular and mainstream (K-pop is already mainstream in Latin America, Middle East and North Africa, and Eastern Europe. This music is getting more mainstream in Western Europe, and K-pop fanbases in US has risen after Gangnam Style), it'll make J-pop artists/groups very jealous that they don't want to be kept in Japan/Asia anymore, they may end up wanting to be like their Korean counterpart and conquer the world with J-pop like the Korean did with K-pop. Also K-drama allowed other Asian dramas to get subtitled and released in the west like Taiwan, Singapore, and Mainland China has already exported their dramas to the west. Japan doesn't export a lot of J-drama (on CR, I can find less then 9 J-dramas, Dramafever only has 2, and Viki has 4 J-dramas. Meanwhile I can find over 150+ K-drama and more then 20+ Chinese language drama from Taiwan, Singapore, and Mainland China on those streaming sites. NHK World doesn't even broadcast J-drama or anime at all when KBS World and Arirang TV broadcast Korean dramas).

If this bill pass, then the anime and manga industry is finished, the video game industry in Japan will have to stop using teens and pre-pubescent characters. Japan will have to rely on exporting J-drama and J-pop to keep their pop culture relevant around the world. I mean, K-drama and K-pop proves that other aspect of Japan pop culture can get popular outside of Asia. So what's keeping Japan from exporting J-drama and J-pop when K-drama and K-pop prove that Asian stuff can get popular outside of Asia?? What's keeping Japan from replicating it's own "Hallyu"?? If anime and manga industry goes down, they still got J-drama and J-pop to keep the world attention to Japan and they'll have to start exporting those at some point. I could give a couple of reasons why they need to do it:

-Japan is losing to South Korea in term of music and drama and the Korean Wave in general. South Korea has now earned the title "Cultural superpower", that title used to belong to Japan before South Korea exported K-drama and K-pop outside of Asia. If that bill pass, and assuming it'll kills the anime/manga industry, and if they don't export J-drama and J-pop, 50 years from now nobody around the world going to care about Japan because anime and manga industry would be gone and Japan not exporting J-pop and J-drama outside of Asia will not only hurt Japan's music industry but will hurt Japan's tourism industry, only South Korea will be relevent because of K-pop, K-drama, and other things. Because of K-pop and K-drama a lot of people are going to South Korea more then Japan. So exporting J-pop and J-drama would be the key to keep Japan's pop culture outside of Asia alive and going for 100 of years.

-If Japan doesn't export J-pop and J-drama now, another Asian country will replicate it's own "hallyu wave" like South Korea did. I know Taiwan will be that next country to have it's own "hallyu wave" (given that Taiwan is exporting more Taiwanese dramas outside of Asia and Taiwanese pop could become the next "K-pop explosion" in the future). That country (assuming it's Taiwan) would overshadowed Japan's pop culture and people would go to that country rather then Japan. If Japan have it's own "hallyu" or a Japanese wave, it could help their economy, their music industry (including drama), and their tourism industry. So yes, Japan needs to export J-pop and J-drama at the masses ASAP if this child porn revision bill pass.
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Tony K.
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 11387
Location: Frisco, TX
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Getting reports about this thread straying off course a bit from Japan to Korea. Please don't force me to delete/edit stuff. Stay on topic. Thanks.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6354
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:11 pm Reply with quote
Tony K. wrote:
Getting reports about this thread straying off course a bit from Japan to Korea. Please don't force me to delete/edit stuff. Stay on topic. Thanks.


Sorry, I was trying to see how Japan can recovered from this if this bill pass and probably kill the anime/manga industry, I thought of the idea of exporting J-pop music and J-drama is the only way for Japan to spread it's pop culture influence if anime/manga ends up dead if this bill pass.
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mdreura



Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:23 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
tcsavato wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
Well in a democracy if people don't like their government they simply vote them out and vote in the one's who will go into this bill/law, should it get passed, and amend, or repeal it out of the statutes. Simples Wink


Not really. People as a whole are retarded. They will believe whatever lies the government spews as long as it sounds good.........Hell, look at everyone currently in politics. Very few are actually good people. Corruption drives politics and people buy into that corruption, that's why the same damn people get elected every time despite the fact that everyone paying attention hates them.
The people get the government they deserve one way or another.


Bollocks. Government by its very nature - autocracy, monarchy, and democracy alike - concentrates the wealth of many into the hands of a few.

People never get the government they deserve. The government we get is the government the ruling class feels like giving us. To suggest that any number of people in the world living meekly under cruel and oppressive governments is getting what they deserve is the height of ignorance and callousness.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:05 am Reply with quote
mdreura, no government can last long without the acquiescence of the majority of the population(hence why police states fall so quickly - most of the populace already hates them, they just need that spark to make them stand up for themselves). It doesn't matter one bit what the ruling class wants if most people won't accept it(hence the numerous regrets among the elites about peace breaking out before "war socialism" could be made permanent - they had to wait until the Panic of 1929 before they could resume strangling the American economy in force). Saying that the people get the government the majority deserve isn't "the height of ignorance and callousness" - it's simple fact.

@mdo7: You're conflating far too many things into the term "Japan" in your posts - your points might be clearer if you actually mention who you're thinking about rather than just saying "Japan" over and over.
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mdreura



Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:22 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
(hence why police states fall so quickly - most of the populace already hates them, they just need that spark to make them stand up for themselves)


Citation Needed?

Polycell wrote:
mdreura, no government can last long without the acquiescence of the majority of the population. It doesn't matter one bit what the ruling class wants if most people won't accept it(hence the numerous regrets among the elites about peace breaking out before "war socialism" could be made permanent - they had to wait until the Panic of 1929 before they could resume strangling the American economy in force). Saying that the people get the government the majority deserve isn't "the height of ignorance and callousness" - it's simple fact.


If that's the case, why do international institutions like the UN and the Hague even exist? Why do world wars happen? By your logic, genocide and war crimes are the sovereign will of the people.

If we're talking simple facts, we have to start by recognizing the simple fact that laws are written by government officials, not the governed themselves. The acquiescence of the population is irrelevant if the one actually writing the law is looking elsewhere for direction. The argument you're making is a leap of faith which maybe true when leaders and benevolent, but falls apart when corruption enters the equation, and it really is the height of ignorance to blame the governed populace for government corruption.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:49 pm Reply with quote
mdreura wrote:
If that's the case, why do international institutions like the UN and the Hague even exist? Why do world wars happen? By your logic, genocide and war crimes are the sovereign will of the people.
Because the international elites dupe the populace into supporting them. Wilson and FDR both wanted to involve the US in Europe's bloodletting from the beginning - but they had to sit on the sidelines until an event came along they could use to galvanize popular opinion(the inability to do so is what scuttled the plan to turn Germany into a potato patch post-WWII).
Quote:
If we're talking simple facts, we have to start by recognizing the simple fact that laws are written by government officials, not the governed themselves. The acquiescence of the population is irrelevant if the one actually writing the law is looking elsewhere for direction.
And where do you get this fantasy from? The act that nationalized radio spectrum was written well before the Titanic sank - but the latter was needed to push it through. The PATRIOT Act was fully drafted before 9/11 - but wasn't put up for debate before then. If the ruling clique of a country was really as omnipotent as you claim, they wouldn't have needed to wait for a chance to manipulate the public.
Quote:
The argument you're making is a leap of faith which maybe true when leaders and benevolent, but falls apart when corruption enters the equation, and it really is the height of ignorance to blame the governed populace for government corruption.
Of course the populace isn't to blame for corruption - it's inherent in the nature of the beast - but they're certainly to blame when they meekly allow their neighbors to be taken away without any resistance. State toughs are always a tiny minority - and always susceptible to a determined majority.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7580
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:28 pm Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
The future of the anime/manga/gaming industry is really getting bleaker by the day. Sad

I think people are forgetting, again, that this is about child (real or imagined) pornography. We already have very strict laws in the UK and US, yet plenty of anime and manga is legally released uncensored.
If you don't indulge in hentai, the seedier side of doujin and fringe publications like Comic LO you probably wouldn't notice any change - after all there was the same uproar over the harmful publications act, but I've not noticed any change in what has been produced since and while Aki Sora (which I've never read) has ceased printing if Yosuga no Sora of all things made it through unscathed..
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:46 pm Reply with quote
And if you DO indulge in such things...what, are you supposed to just let the lawmakers destroy your favorite things?

Eff this law. Eff it to hell. I can't imagine a world without Candy Paddle. I just can't.
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tcsavato



Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:00 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
The future of the anime/manga/gaming industry is really getting bleaker by the day. Sad

I think people are forgetting, again, that this is about child (real or imagined) pornography. We already have very strict laws in the UK and US, yet plenty of anime and manga is legally released uncensored.
If you don't indulge in hentai, the seedier side of doujin and fringe publications like Comic LO you probably wouldn't notice any change - after all there was the same uproar over the harmful publications act, but I've not noticed any change in what has been produced since and while Aki Sora (which I've never read) has ceased printing if Yosuga no Sora of all things made it through unscathed..


It's not even really about porn. If it can be taken in a sexual way and the character in question looks or is under 18 then it is Illegal which means even an innocent panty shot is illegal. It's something that effects things from Dragonball to Fairy Tail to Sailor Moon to Madoka. Government should not hold that type of power over artist to dictate what they believe to be acceptable, that's for the consumers to decide.

I remember someone posted what the Fairy Tail guy would have to do if the law passed, and it was retarded.
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:01 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, it's not just about the porn (though that's one aspect).

This is basically Japan trying to make its own Comics Code. And we all know how that screwed up American comics for YEARS.
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