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[Off-Topic] Are you a Wapanese?


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KyuuA4



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 1361
Location: America, where anime and manga can be made
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:04 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
I am not, and frankly I take some offense to the statement that Japanese culture is more rich than western cultures.


Unique is a more proper term, as y'don't really see it duplicated elsewhere. Not in China -- maybe in Korea. Unlike the Chinese, the Japanese are not overly xenophobic. Every part of the world has some xenophobia, but Japan doesn't isolate itself in terms of an Internet.

Oh, and yes. Japanese culture is more rich than Western cultures because people seem to separate it from everything else. From anime to J-Pop to J-Rap - Japanese media is separated from everything else. What's the difference from Pop music to J-Pop music? Razz

Now, what about Korea? They have their own customs. Are they unique? I don't know. We (at least I) haven't seen enough of their media to even form some kind of opinion of them. Though some Korean music is good.

DKong wrote:
Personally, I'm not a big fan of America.
It's a nation controlled by the media


Um, that's every country - even Japan. If you think anime isn't media - then I suggest you rethink that. It still goes on TV; and people watch it. Razz

Thankfully for the Internet. The influence of corporate TV networks are counter-balanced by the net itself. We don't take TV's words to whole heartedly especially when we have access to people's words via the net.

psycho 101 wrote:
I must say I have been interested in learning more about Japan's Buddhist and Shinto history and beliefs.


Diverting away from Christianity? Yea. That's also somewhat of a trend; but it's not really a big trend.

Zen is quite interesting as the pursuit of knowledge is balanced by acknowledging lack of it. Very Happy
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DKong



Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:26 pm Reply with quote
KyuuA4 wrote:
Oh, and yes. Japanese culture is more rich than Western cultures because people seem to separate it from everything else. From anime to J-Pop to J-Rap - Japanese media is separated from everything else. What's the difference from Pop music to J-Pop music? Razz
The difference is that J-pop is sung in Japanese....<_<
There's also Brit-pop, so it's not like Japan is the only place separated like that.
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Anthony P



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, US
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:49 pm Reply with quote
DKong wrote:
KyuuA4 wrote:
Oh, and yes. Japanese culture is more rich than Western cultures because people seem to separate it from everything else. From anime to J-Pop to J-Rap - Japanese media is separated from everything else. What's the difference from Pop music to J-Pop music? Razz
The difference is that J-pop is sung in Japanese....<_<
There's also Brit-pop, so it's not like Japan is the only place separated like that.

There's pop in nearly all modern countries. And J-pop is pretty much a caricature of American pop; it takes the primary characteristics of American pop and exaggerates them, oftentimes to unintentional comedic effect.
KyuuA4 wrote:
Unique is a more proper term, as y'don't really see it duplicated elsewhere.

Huh? So countries' cultures can easily and accurately be reproduced by other countries, with the exception of Japan?
No.
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DKong



Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:29 pm Reply with quote
Anthony P wrote:
DKong wrote:
KyuuA4 wrote:
Oh, and yes. Japanese culture is more rich than Western cultures because people seem to separate it from everything else. From anime to J-Pop to J-Rap - Japanese media is separated from everything else. What's the difference from Pop music to J-Pop music? Razz
The difference is that J-pop is sung in Japanese....<_<
There's also Brit-pop, so it's not like Japan is the only place separated like that.

There's pop in nearly all modern countries. And J-pop is pretty much a caricature of American pop; it takes the primary characteristics of American pop and exaggerates them, oftentimes to unintentional comedic effect.

I realize that part, but that guy said that no other countries get the letter in front of them to denote differences (for instance, there is no C pop for Canadian, no F pop for French pop, no I pop for Irish pop, etc), and I was just pointing out that I know of at least one that is separated (Brit pop).
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Asako



Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 751
Location: Hawaii
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:35 pm Reply with quote
Well no.. but there are things like Eurobeat... K-pop, C-pop.. uhm.. I'm sure there are others.. just can't think of any..

Also I think it would be funny to have every country have a "letter"-Pop for music created... We'd definitely run out of alphabet, haha. Or it'll be so blown up that we would just have to use the country name, or categorize it as "Pop" general Smile
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16941
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:45 pm Reply with quote
Here's one fun filled fact no one has brought up. so many people here in this thread are like "Japan is so pro," "Japan's culture is so much more awesomer then everywhere yo" but yet they are influenced by us here in America just as much. There are tons of American cultural ideas that make there way there. Yes they have some very nice cultural backgrounds and history in Japan but don't forget they borrow from other cultures themselves.
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Azathrael



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:16 pm Reply with quote
psycho 101 wrote:
Here's one fun filled fact no one has brought up. so many people here in this thread are like "Japan is so pro," "Japan's culture is so much more awesomer then everywhere yo" but yet they are influenced by us here in America just as much. There are tons of American cultural ideas that make there way there. Yes they have some very nice cultural backgrounds and history in Japan but don't forget they borrow from other cultures themselves.


In this era of globalization, there is no country that isn't influenced by foreign cultures. For as much American culture that has influenced Japan, look at how much Pokemon alone has influenced American culture. On top of that, nations don't get conquered by foreign cultures, they incorporate it. What's American culture in Japan isn't truly American as time goes by since it becomes more and more "Japanized". Same for vice versa. Therefore there's really no basis in disproving richness of a culture by saying that it's not "pure".

I don't want to compare East Asia to Europe, but if I were to compare China, the most influential East Asian culture, to Japan, I'd say Japan is definitely more "rich". While China was conquered and divided among the Western powers (and even Japan), resulting in severe resistance against western influences, Japan was the foremost country in Asia that welcomed and incorporated western influences (for example, Fukuzawa Yukichi and his idea of "Datsu-A Nyu-O"). Having been influenced by both Asian and western powers, they have developed a hybrid culture (that is now unarguably Japanese) that is, I believe, more "rich" compared to China or Korea.

But for me, rich doesn't mean superior. It simply means that it's more interesting for me and worth my time to study it.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16941
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:28 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
But for me, rich doesn't mean superior. It simply means that it's more interesting for me and worth my time to study it.


That is a good attitude, I think, to have concerning the subject. Me, I love my celtic heritage and culture but despite that I wouldn't say it's superior to others. I also find that most people who claim one culture is just soooooo much better then others typically don't even know any true history of that culture they like so much.
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10円



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 605
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:42 pm Reply with quote
psycho 101 wrote:
Here's one fun filled fact no one has brought up. so many people here in this thread are like "Japan is so pro," "Japan's culture is so much more awesomer then everywhere yo" but yet they are influenced by us here in America just as much. There are tons of American cultural ideas that make there way there. Yes they have some very nice cultural backgrounds and history in Japan but don't forget they borrow from other cultures themselves.


That's pretty funny, considering that culturally America has borrowed almost everything we have from some foreign influence during our short little existence from a few thousand to a few hundred million citizens. Outside of a handful of homegrown products like jazz and blues, America is just as much of a cultural whore as any other country. If you want to see where the Japanese culture has spent most of its long history borrowing from then you should probably be looking at cultures like Korea and China, and not America. Even much of the imported "English" influence in Japan and the rest of Asia comes not so much from America, but from Britain. It's easy to assume that America is the center of the universe simply because our domestic media keep telling us it's true. But, here in the real world America isn't exactly seen as the be-all-end-all free thinking paradise we so loudly proclaim it to be.
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Wandering Knight



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:50 pm Reply with quote
Azathrael wrote:

In this era of globalization, there is no country that isn't influenced by foreign cultures. For as much American culture that has influenced Japan, look at how much Pokemon alone has influenced American culture. On top of that, nations don't get conquered by foreign cultures, they incorporate it. What's American culture in Japan isn't truly American as time goes by since it becomes more and more "Japanized". Same for vice versa. Therefore there's really no basis in disproving richness of a culture by saying that it's not "pure".


You should rethink that. It's something hard to realize when you live in a dominant country, but when you live in the peripheria you start seeing things differently. And Argentina isn't so much in the peripheria as many other countries out there, specially in central Africa and the Asian southeast. Dominant countries actually culturally conquer the dominated countries. It's always been like that. The easiest way to see it is the "lingua franca" of the era. Right now, English is the most important language worldwide, because the United States are the most dominating nation worldwide. I mean, English must be the language most school systems have officially integrated with their common assingments, not just as an extracurricular subject. This is actually cultural domination.

But it's always been like this. In the time of the Roman Empire, conquered provinces were forced to learn latin, and so through mispronounciation of latin in the peripherial provinces romance languages (Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian and Ruman) were born. While France was the dominating power back in the XVIII and the XIX centuries, French was the 'cult' language. Like I said, it's pretty hard to realize it when you live in a dominating country, but from here, it's a whole different story.
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SuperOnizuka



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 421
Location: When I look At the World- New Jersey
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:50 am Reply with quote
As for topic on globalization, not all of the entire native culture gets tossed out when a dominant culture comes in. For the most part, it gets assimilated into the native culture, where they retain their culture as well as bringing in the other culture. India, i.e., a booming economy they use their cooking methods, dress the way they wish to dress, etc. all the while accommodating the western culture.

Countries choose to use English because of economics, at the moment. With that said Chinese will be the dominating global language within a couple decades. Since China is becoming the economic giant and superpower. Wink
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Azathrael



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:38 am Reply with quote
Wandering Knight wrote:

You should rethink that. It's something hard to realize when you live in a dominant country, but when you live in the peripheria you start seeing things differently. And Argentina isn't so much in the peripheria as many other countries out there, specially in central Africa and the Asian southeast. Dominant countries actually culturally conquer the dominated countries. It's always been like that. The easiest way to see it is the "lingua franca" of the era. Right now, English is the most important language worldwide, because the United States are the most dominating nation worldwide. I mean, English must be the language most school systems have officially integrated with their common assingments, not just as an extracurricular subject. This is actually cultural domination.

But it's always been like this. In the time of the Roman Empire, conquered provinces were forced to learn latin, and so through mispronounciation of latin in the peripherial provinces romance languages (Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian and Ruman) were born. While France was the dominating power back in the XVIII and the XIX centuries, French was the 'cult' language. Like I said, it's pretty hard to realize it when you live in a dominating country, but from here, it's a whole different story.


I've lived in Korea for a total of 7 years and Hong Kong (before it was returned back to China) for 3 years. I know a lot more than you assume on the whole subject. While your single example may be true, English isn't forced upon other nations as latin was during the Roman Empire. There is a pressure and necessity to learn English as it is being considered more and more as an international language, but that doesn't mean that it's "conquering" cultures. Because no matter how much more important English will become, it's not going to replace Korean, or Mandarin, or Japanese. From the conquered perspective such as yourself, it only seems like you're being "conquered" as much as the conquering perspective think that they're "conquering". What you're saying is only the other extreme perspective and it doesn't reflect reality at all.

And anything I want to say more has been already said by SuperOnizuka. I couldn't agree more.
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Wandering Knight



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:05 pm Reply with quote
I still believe it's a naive way of seeing things. If globalization is as reciprocal as you proclame, then please name four Argentinian music artists and a couple of their songs. I, on the other hand (and most of the Argentinian population) can name dozens of American artists, records and songs, painters, writers, even many passages of your history. You only receive a few influences from outside--mainly of powerful nations like England, France, or Japan. I'm making a guess here, I assume it, but I don't think I'm pretty far off the truth. It's really easy to imagine a run-of-the-mill country to be full of American merchandising, but very hard to think of it the other way around.

Though culture might be preserved in some way or the other (it always does and always did, even in nations conquered by Romans), it weakens at the influx of western ways. Most of kids my age I know don't give a damn about national Argentinian folklore music, myself included. Even the national music on the radio has a deep, deep influence of American and European music. And I bet you don't go to Japan to find most young people listening to Enka.

It is a form of domination. Why is it then that countries adapt to western ways? Economics? I'd rather think there's some sense of inferiority before the powerful nations, and so by adapting to their ways (which actually means buying their stuff, thus justifying their dominant position) there is actually some kind of hidden desire to become like them.

I don't know, take heed to my words or not, it's just an opinion of someone who's lived his whole life in a dominated country with another point of view of the situation.
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omar235



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 1572
Location: Florida, Jacksonvile
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:02 pm Reply with quote
In are history classes we learn about major events, the culture, and the religion of other countries Wink I mean I don't think we can learn about the 250 or so nations of the world beyond what their capitols are and a few facts about them. I mean how many other nations besides America do you learn about? I am sure you can name off a few names of songs from countries around yours but how much do you know about the other South American countries? you probably know little bit about them all, right. Now how much do you know about Canada, African countries, or the middle eastern countries? America is an ethnic melting pot so American culture is basically a bunch of different cultures all mixed to gether including your country. So yes we get a good amount of outside infulence of culture.

Sure we learn alot about Europe mostly because America's roots are from England, not so much because it happens to be a world power. I learned about Japan on my own. Go down to Miami and you will get a crash course on alot of Cuban culture. I don't think Americans are as unopened to the world as people think. Sure alot of us don't really leave the country (I only visit Venezuela) but we do get alot of culture from others from other cultures here. Wink Though I suppose more Americans leaving the country probably wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Wandering Knight



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:02 pm Reply with quote
You didn't get my point. I meant that almost every country in the world has a deep contact with western American culture, but that you get a minimum contact back. Do you get what I mean? I'm sure you learn about other countries, as do I, but you don't get many songs from South America on the radio, or from the Middle East, or even from East Europe, but I'm sure those countries do get a lot of your music on the radio.

Music is just an example. Asian traditional housebuilding has been quickly replaced in its majority by western building, in most cities of the world you'll see American movies being showcased on a huge proportion compared to national cinema, 80% of the channels in cable TV here are American, McDonald's and Coca-Cola are brands that have reached almost all countries in the world... I can keep going on forever. I seriously doubt you have foreign influence to that extent.
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