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NEWS: Toonami Promotes One Piece's Return With Rhyming Pirate

Have we been watching the same shounen? The ones where Nami is fanservice city using her body to seduce and get men excited, let alone Boa Hancock who's power revolves precisely around giving men boners or Sanji going gaga over everything that moves to the point of molesting himself when he's in Nami's body? Or Naruto using Sexy Jutsu and other pervy technics like spying on girls in the hotsprings and clearly wants to get with Sakura (and Hinata him) Or Bleach with Orihime and, heck, Rangiku going around unbuttoning her shirt to seduce men and stuff? I see it all over these kinds of shows. The most I see out of American shows is elementary school stuff of crushes and maybe some kissing or something. And trust me, teenagers are interested in and do a lot more than just kissing.

Not necessarily...

What's the point you're trying to raise in that everything Japan does in animation is automatically better than ours? I think both have their strengths and weaknesses and are equally as good overall...

I think One Piece has been a lot more mature at times than the scores of anime I've seen that have tons of nudity and/or violence.

If there's anyone here who thinks that they're mature viewers because they watch perv/gory anime content, you've got some more growing up to do.

All the fanservice in the world doesn't really change the fact that on a regular basis western action shows tend to be better about romantic relationships than shonen anime I'd say having actual relationships in the show is generally more mature and interesting to older viewers than just flaunting boobs to please hormonal teenagers.

And as I mentioned in an above post there are certainly examples of sexual implications in western stuff if you look hard enough. Just because it's not thrown in our face all the time doesn't mean it's not there at all.

Those shows are all still severely dumbed down for a child audience so I'm not sure what the point is. Obviously there will be some people who like them regardless, given every show has at least one person who likes it, but they're still not on the same level as the comics. And for some characters, like Starfire, Carnage, Punisher, or that Vampire in the old Spider-Man cartoon who had to absorb energy from people through his hands rather than actually drinking their blood, that pretty much means making them something else entirely. Though I must say though I do like the irony of old Teen Titan cartoon fans complaining about how the new Teen Titans cartoon is 'not the way these characters should be'. The mantle has been passed on to a new generation of complainers.

I just wanted to comment on the whole "dishonest portayal of teenagers" thing configspace mentioned and listed an example of a panel about that I remembered. And in that regard, then I would have to say yes, Japan does have more freedom to do that sort of thing compared to the west.

Second, that's certainly debatable given the large amount of backlash I saw about the love-triangle in Korra, Young Justice, and Scooby Doo. People were ranting how it was the worst thing about those shows and took away from the actual "plot"; especially in Korra's case (though Velma competing with a dog in might be my personal pick for most obnoxiously forced love-triangle) It might appeal to some people, like those obsessive shippers who make up names for every pairing and couple, but you have to realize the relationships they portray are completely juvenile and in no way representative of how actual teenager and adult relationships play out.

Your examples are pure speculation and looking for things that aren't there. I mean, rape in Ed, Edd, and Ed? Avatar? Sheesh, those situations are just played for laughs and building on the stereotype of how boys hate cooties so being kissed by a girl is the ultimate defeat. If anything, even if we assume those are ture (which they're not), all it would indicate is writers are interested in showing sex and rape but are unable to do so because of the censors.

Divineking wrote:

All the fanservice in the world doesn't really change the fact that on a regular basis western action shows tend to be better about romantic relationships than shonen anime I'd say having actual relationships in the show is generally more mature and interesting to older viewers than just flaunting boobs to please hormonal teenagers.

First off, romance and sexuality are two completely different things.

Second, that's certainly debatable given the large amount of backlash I saw about the love-triangle in Korra, Young Justice, and Scooby Doo. People were ranting how it was the worst thing about those shows and took away from the actual "plot"; especially in Korra's case (though Velma competing with a dog in might be my personal pick for most obnoxiously forced love-triangle) It might appeal to some people, like those obsessive shippers who make up names for every pairing and couple, but you have to realize the relationships they portray are completely juvenile and in no way representative of how actual teenager and adult relationships play out.

Personally, I'd argue that keeping your emotional desires in check and keeping your relationships with everyone completely professional and platonic in a serious environment, like say a war, is far more professional and mature. Shoehorning in some schoolyard crushing during a battle for the fate of the world seems far too melodramatic and "forced Hollywood romance subplot"-ish. Naruto taking a break every 2 episodes to discuss his love triangle with Sakura and Hinata while soldiers are dying left and right this world war and the fate of the world is at the balance would be groan-worthy, and would make moments like Hinata slapping some sense into him less impactful because it'd be all over the place. If I wanted actual pure romance, I'll go watch a romance anime, since series dedicated entirely to romance are going to flesh it out better compared to action shows shoehorning in love-triangles and shipping drama everywhere for the sake of appealing to some shipping crowd. Especially in a show like One Piece where actual romance just wouldn't fit given the tone and goofyness of the overall series, something even Oda himself said.

And as I mentioned in an above post there are certainly examples of sexual implications in western stuff if you look hard enough. Just because it's not thrown in our face all the time doesn't mean it's not there at all.

Your examples are pure speculation and looking for things that aren't there. I mean, rape in Ed, Edd, and Ed? Avatar? Sheesh, those situations are just played for laughs and building on the stereotype of how boys hate cooties so being kissed by a girl is the ultimate defeat. If anything, even if we assume those are ture (which they're not), all it would indicate is writers are interested in showing sex and rape but are unable to do so because of the censors.

Hypeathon wrote:

I'm going to assume you never went to art school, have you (and yes, it does matter that I ask that)?

I never went to cullinary school either, but I know when I dislike a dish I'm being served

YotaruVegeta wrote:

If there's anyone here who thinks that they're mature viewers because they watch perv/gory anime content, you've got some more growing up to do.

One could say the same about those who shun the natural human body and the violent realities of life. Even One Piece has tons of that stuff in it and you still seem to like it.

I don't know exactly what you were getting at, but I guess, yes? Yes, One Piece is a fantasy show?

Okay since you apparently don't seem to get it allow me to explain it to you violence =/= maturity.

Though as I mentioned before it's certainly possible for a show to have adult viewership if it just has the good writing and drama.

Okay for one thing while the background story for Avatar is based on war, the focus is on the main characters who for obvious reasons don't have any real reason to be on the frontlines since their goals seldom clash with that. Though if your claim is that we never see ANY aftermath of some of the battles in the war, they showed us the end result of the air nomad genocide pretty clearly as early as episode 2.

Err...I'd say that tends to apply to ALL fiction not just western animation. There are tons of examples of characters "dying" in explosions in anime(which ironically has a higher actual death rate in western toons) only to come back later, and it happens so often that I pretty much never expect them to die whenever I see it in anime

So your saying there's no kind of physical attraction between characters in western toons whatsover? You've rendered your entire argument invalid right there. There are tons of examples saying otherwise, and as far as sex goes, while it's not quite as explicit as anime(though fanservice aside it tends not too be there much in kids anime either) there are examples of it there too. For instance there's a scene during The Southern Raiders episode of Avatar where Sokka was quite clearly inviting Suki over to his tent before he was interrupted by Zuko, and the next morning he was prancing around with a crown of flowers on his head to symbolize he got laid. There's also the numerous instances in Ed Edd n Eddy where the title characters are constantly raped (albiet off screen) by the Kanker Sisters, and though that one's a bit easier to argue against it does at least show that sexual harrassment certainly exists in western animation.

>_> I would bet 10 dollars One Piece has more adult viewers than Green Lantern does probably cause of its maturity

And physical attraction is limited to kissing in toons and nothing carnal or at least sexual. everything else is just conjecture or made up by fans to seem more adult than it really is. at best maybe making out but you'll never see teenager discussing if they're ready to have sex or third base or anymore more than that. I guess in these worlds all teenagers have a liking to do is kissing x_x

o_o you were talkin about content levels not maturity.

That point about death would have been more poignant if One Piece hadn't waited 500 episodes to actually show characters dying. It literally didn't show a single character death until that point.

animehermit wrote:

That point about death would have been more poignant if One Piece hadn't waited 500 episodes to actually show characters dying. It literally didn't show a single character death until that point.

Bellemere says hi.

It showed Arlong fatally shooting her in a long flashback around episode 30-something. Definitely one of the more tearjerker moments of the series.

Like I said earlier, most of those shows use sexuality as a joke. Mostly because it's really funny to younger boys.

Ummm.... the shows I mentioned are HUGE in their respective fanbases, especially Batman: The Animated Series, which at one time, was shown in PRIME TIME on FOX, and is rated TV-PG (one of the first non-Simpsons cartoons to achieve that), and spawned a PG-13 animated movie. It dealt with very dark themes that are, to this day, still unmatched by anything animated. It was absolutely not "dumbed down". The show got high critical acclaim for it's very "mature writing" and for taking it's audience very seriously.

So suddenly everything has to be 100% realistic? While I don't have a problem with animated shows dealing with "teenager issues" (as long as they fit the show), I don't NEED them in my cartoons. Like I said before, a lot of the anime you say you watch doesn't feature that stuff either.

I can't speak for the other two, but in Scooby-Doo's case that was NOT supposed to be realistic. It was played for laughs, and was supposed to be funny. Can you imagine realistic sexual undertones in a show like Scooby-Doo? Velma competing with Scooby himself for Shaggy was the joke.

Can you imagine a show like Ed, Edd, n Eddy dealing with serious themes like rape? Come ON. That show didn't have ANYTHING serious in it at all (not that there's nothing wrong with that. The show was meant to be silly).

Also a lot of the romance your complaining about tends to happen outside of battles and action sequences so I don't really know what your point is here

...

Yes there are important things going on in the series but the characters haven't been fighting 100% of the time between then and now. It wouldn't have killed Kishimoto to at least mention it again, and if he wasn't going to actually do much of anything with it it would have been better not to do that at all.

I don't know too many other ways you can interpret this, though by all means enlighten me), and in the same instance it would most likely just be implied in a shonen than outright shown like you seem to believe would be the case. Best example is the author of Shaman King having to confirm outside of the manga that Yoh and Anna did indeed have sex before the start of the Shaman tourney and that she was pregnant despite how freakishly obvious it was. They have to deal with censors too.

It also happens in a flashback, which is something Crispy45 was complaining about in western shows.

To be fair, I think there's a little bit of a difference than saying "my ancient race passed on 100 years ago" in passing and actively showing a woman get shot point-blank with a shotgun on screen with her insides get blown behind her as she slumps to the floor dead.

"Huge in their respective fanbases" seems like a given since I assume people who liked the show would like the show. How many actually adult fans (who were adults when it originally aired, not now) actually exist though? Probably not in any noticible number. Also, despite airing on prime-time it was short lived due to horrendous ratings, indicating not many people cared for it in that slot. And simply saying it's 'unmatched' doesn't mean it's good. The comics, and certain extent, the movies, were able to explore things better due to not being limited in a kids show setting. It might have been better than other kids show adaptions, but that doesn't make it good.

It doesn't have to be realistic, just not dishonest. Characters in anime can still showcase their own sexuality, or at least acknowledge it exists, even kid shows.

A 'joke' they dragged on for episodes on end to the point of it taking over a lot of stuff. That's kind of the thing, it feels like there's some obligation to force a love dynamic into a ton of shows even if it doesn't fit.

That's why I said it was absurd to think they would do that.