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Women in anime.

Unicorn_Blade wrote:

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OtakuExile wrote: Hold on. Strong female characters? And you want it in Japanese animation? Ha! The same Japanese that have women walk three paces behind the man? The same Japanese that will sexually harass you on a morning commute? Hell, you better clutch that box set of Moribito tight, because last I checked, fantasy is a lot different than reality. Moe and T&A still sell. Don't worry though, the old generation that think this way are on their way out, then you can command your legion of herbivore men to animate all the "strong women anime" you want.

I have loads of Japanese friends, none of them walks three steps behind their man. A lot of them actually work in big companies and what a surprise, noone harrasses them on their way to work.

The last time I checked, the reality wass a lot different from what you saw on the TV. Time to wake up.

Interesting thread. I was reading through this thread and I feel there is some inaccurate things that had not been attended to. Thankfully wanderlustking did share some of her insight on the matter. Going back a few pages there was this:

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Unicorn_Blade wrote: Quote: OtakuExile wrote: Hold on. Strong female characters? And you want it in Japanese animation? Ha! The same Japanese that have women walk three paces behind the man? The same Japanese that will sexually harass you on a morning commute? Hell, you better clutch that box set of Moribito tight, because last I checked, fantasy is a lot different than reality. Moe and T&A still sell. Don't worry though, the old generation that think this way are on their way out, then you can command your legion of herbivore men to animate all the "strong women anime" you want. I have loads of Japanese friends, none of them walks three steps behind their man. A lot of them actually work in big companies and what a surprise, noone harrasses them on their way to work. The last time I checked, the reality wass a lot different from what you saw on the TV. Time to wake up.

While OtakuExile took some liberties by exaggerating in a slightly condescending tone, his train of thought is a lot more informed than people in this thread gave him credit for. He probably knows something on the topic and everyone wrote him off because of the tone of his post. You wrote him off incorrectly. I think this thread could do with some more insight. Some people's arguments have suffered because they did not know.

I'm not sure what ages your Japanese friends are exactly, but they are obviously of the younger generation. I almost feel as if they are giving you a rose colored view of Japan's present society. The situation for woman in Japan is of an entirely different beast than in America. While yes, woman are being hired into corporate society, they are very rarely given important jobs and aren't going to rise through most companies like men can.

Your friends represent a vast minority. There situation is not reality for the majority.

Though yes, woman in Japan do have a firm grasp of the household and could be seen as something like the 'leader'. Corporate Japanese men spend a crazy amount of time working, so the women have to pick up the slack at home.

Obviously like OtakuExile said, things are changing with the new generation, but this is a excruciatingly slow change.

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some cultures stone women to death for being raped.

This is an unfair allegory. Any culture that truly does this I would support womens rights to the end. And the japan of today is a far cry from this standard. And being half Arabian myself I know it is FAR less widespread than western media likes to potray it. It is more or less only done in Iran and Saudi Arabia which frankly are considered redneck by Arab standards and I would back anyone up who wanted to fight the system in those countries. There are probably a few cases in Africa. But to be fair Africa is so war torn these days that they don't seem to need a reason to be brutal they just seem to need an excuse. Whole towns are raped and murdered over there just to set examples. Any other cases are religious nutters taking the law into their own hands. Which in a war torn country where police can't be everywhere at once and are often corrupt themselves is oft to happen. What do you think would happen in the American deep south if all of a sudden the law had a hard time reaching it? For that matter just how many serial killers in America use the Bible as a reason for their crime? Murduring raping not-so-nice-people are a constant in society I am afraid and blazing an opposing cultures examples of them all over the media is a common tactic used by governments to set false images of foreign countries in peoples minds. To justify their wars. And it seems to me we are still suffering from the PR hangover we had against Japan during the second world war. If you wan't to see an example of truly horrific human behavior then no culture is exempt from these nutters. Not mine, Not yours, Not anyones. So you really can't judge en entire culture based on their "worst" cases.

really just Iran. even other sexist violent countries have grown out of stoning women. Oh and the west has probably no CERTAINLY preformed the most heinous acts of human rights violations and genocide. So you are totally right about horrific human behavior being in all cultures

poilk92 wrote:

really just Iran. even other sexist violent countries have grown out of stoning women. Oh and the west has probably no CERTAINLY preformed the most heinous acts of human rights violations and genocide. So you are totally right about horrific human behavior being in all cultures

Other countries also stone women too. Pakistan, Sudan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia are four that I can name off the top of my head.

[Cultural/racial generalizations removed. This is not the forum for this type of thing.]

However, I think we are getting a little astray from the actual topic at hand, so I'll stop now.

Well Dtm42 frankly i am shocked we have come to blows before over opinions but frankly I find that racist offensive and downright ignorant. I have reported youre post and will take no further part in this discussion. I would also like to add that having lived in Iraq, Kuwait and Lebanon and having visited Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran and Dubai. I have yet to actually see or even hear of ONE person getting stoned to death. And only in Saudi and Syria and Kuwait (Not Iraq tho .. go figure people there where lovely) did I feel at all unwelcome as a half Arab. And even then nothing serious happened. How much experience with the middle east have you had Dtm42? To make such an outright offensive comment it had better be a sh*tload.

1. You're using a few prominent examples to make generalizations while also looking at older anime titles through rose-colored glasses. It wasn't that good before nor is it that bad now.



2. Change "most" to "some" in the first sentence and I might agree with you, but you're absolutely wrong about how this isn't debatable; saying that is saying that something is fact when there is insufficient evidence to establish it as such. While there are unquestionably some women that are helpless without their male counterparts, to say that's even true in the majority in anime is ridiculous. What have you been watching lately?

3.And why shouldn't female characters have "character faults?" Characters who entirely lack them are dull, whether male or female.

4. Why would I want to name 10 female characters like Naruto? He's obnoxious.

5.But seriously, I do understand what you're getting at and I would have no difficulty naming that many worthy female characters off the top of my head. Flip back to my post in the first page and you'll see plenty of examples.


6. Really? How much have you associated with teens and preteens lately? Both from personal observations and what I hear from parents of teens, this happens all of the time in the U.S., and decidedly more in the current generation than in any previous one. Besides, you're generalizing about Japan and in (probably very) inaccurate ways.

7. You seem to be losing sight of the fact that a lot of the romantic behavior of girls towards boys in anime is either wish fulfillment or intended as a joke; it is definitely not intended to be a representation of reality, except in a few rare cases.

(And besides, it isn't like the female character lusting after a male character is unique to - or even original to - anime. I can remember old cartoon shorts in the U.S. dating back 60+ years which show this kind of thing as a joke.)

Key wrote:

2. Change "most" to "some" in the first sentence and I might agree with you, but you're absolutely wrong about how this isn't debatable ...

2. Will not change to some. I'm speaking presently and of course recently for the last couple of years. Obviously what I see differs from what you see. ...

ShinobiX wrote:

Key wrote: 2. Change "most" to "some" in the first sentence and I might agree with you, but you're absolutely wrong about how this isn't debatable ... 2. Will not change to some. I'm speaking presently and of course recently for the last couple of years. Obviously what I see differs from what you see. ...

Wait a minute: when you say, "obviously what I see differs from what you see", you are saying that you have seen different anime, or that you have seen every anime produced in the last couple of years and have seen different things in it?

If its the first, you have no basis for saying anything more than "some". "I have seen some anime and based on that, all anime is ..." is clearly a conclusion that is unwarranted by the evidence.

If its the second, most of what you are calling dependence by the female characters in Aria and Maria-sama ga Miteru is depending on other women, and then the "all women are dependent" has a massive blind spot for those other women who are being depended upon to help them with their problems.

not that i disagree with your point there is such a thing as co-dependency