Forum - View topicList your personal top five most overated anime (and do you feel the rankings are fair here?)
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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I agree that this kind of question could be put forth. There are several problems though. Both possibilities aren't really explored by the authors. Light never questions the way he's doing things and only says that the one who wins will be in the right. As I said, L doesn't care. The cops generally say that it's simply wrong to kill people and be above the law. That is why I said that moral questions have been marginalized. The second problem is that I can't imagine any significant philosopher or moral system that would approve of Light's actions. Hardline consequentialists might be fine even with killing innocents for the sake of the goal, but the moral agent must be selfless and do what is good for community and Light doesn't really give a damn about what people think about Kira or how much suffering he causes on the way to his goal. What is more, most consequentialists are liberals since fear and lack of freedom causes suffering and Kira is as tyrannical as they get. |
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TheSwedishElf
Posts: 300 |
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That isn't entirely true. He wanted everyone to love and fear Kira, and when Misa became the Second Kira, he was inwardly flipping his shit because she was tarnishing the goal and image of Kira. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Let's look at the examples of why this statement is not true:
Reading comprehension is not your strongest attribute.
This is the point where reason fails to ignorance.
This is the final desperate act of trolls, and it's a unanimous belief of everyone who comments on the internet. When someone takes the words of another, and twists them into both something they did not say and avoiding the primary point... ...it is obvious you are a stupid troll. If you don't like being called a stupid troll, stop acting like a stupid troll. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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TheSwedishElf,
The fact that the justice system in Japan (and here in the USA, for that matter) is slow, fallible, and sometimes corrupt isn't some amazing insight: it's pretty well known and accepted. But our boy Light never seems to try to understand *why* things work the way they do, he just condemns it. First there is the matter of Light deciding that Might Makes Right and that *his* values should matter above and beyond those of anyone else, or all of society for that matter. Someone appears guilty? Why have a court of law? Just kill him and be done with it! This idiot doesn't understand *why* we don't do it that way. *Why* we have a legal process. *Why* we have trials and judges and all the rest. There are reasons, and they aren't only about making sure that an innocent person isn't punished or that a guilty person *is* punished. They provide stability to society by having a process that is largely transparent. Light had bad traits *from the start*, it was just that the Death Note allowed those bad traits the power to influence things on a large scale. It's not that power corrupted him, but that power showed how corrupt he was already, IMO, anyway. Light was motivated by hatred and contempt, not compassion or wanting to help others. Helping others was the farthest thing from his mind. He wanted people to respect him and fear him. He could manipulate people so well because he didn't care what happened to them. He only cared about himself, and if others had to suffer for him to satisfy his own urges and beliefs, than so be it. This is why Near said that he was no better than the criminals he killed. Most intentional crimes are commited for similar reasons: a selfish desire to get what you want without regard for the effects on the lives of others. Light was never a "regular high school boy". Even from what I can recall of the very first episode he wasn't normal. His views and attitude were already not normal. He was already a monster, IMO, but a powerless one; the DN gave him power, and nothing held him back or encouraged him to doubt himself and maybe seek a different viewpoint. I didn't feel bad for Light. Well, more abstractly I suppose I feel bad that he became the sort of person who viewed the world as he did -- that he was as narrow-minded and unreflective as he was. He was so overconfident in his own vision that competing viewpoints never could taint the "purity" of his views. And that is what made him such a psychopath. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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Well the author already decided that having such power would not be possible and created a story to support that conclusion. You see it is an example for the audience and not a question posed to the audience even if it is natural for some of the audience to substitutes themselves into a role in the story.
There's no reason why Light should question himself. He is convinced he's right so he's right.
This is why I didn't call it a moral question because the author does all the answering.
Well I can imagine Nietzsche writing a similar story about an man that develops the power to decide what is right or wrong but without the supernatural intervention and having a similar nothingness ending. Of course he'd probably do 10 Hail Marys after this book is published. The author is not saying Light's actions are OKAY it is factually quite the opposite. Somewhere in vol.13 the author(or artist) expressly call Light a bad person. I recently loaned out all my DN collection so I have to wait to verify the page number. Basically Light was never going to win. |
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ThePoliced
Posts: 130 |
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[EDIT: Content replace due to trolling-type contents. - Key]
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Should we care that he's convinced? What makes him so convinced, that is the issue here. Is the world really rotten? Will killing criminals make it better? Whys and hows don't really enter his mind so he has no arguments for a rational sceptic.
No matter who does the answering that is still a moral question. Should or shouldn't he not use the notebook and kill people for a better world? I haven't read that manga appendix but no clear answer was given in anime unless Light's death counts. And that would be an answer without proof.
Yes, but Light is no "higher person" and Nietsche's interpreters still aren't sure what his positive moral views actually were or even if he had anything coherent. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Should you care? Dunno. You should however be able to observe through his actions and monologues that he is completely convinced to the righteousness his goals.
There's nothing in the story that indicates that world is any more rotten than reality. Even though there is good and bad in the world Light is convince that a strict and swift response to those that are bad would create a better world. Does killing criminals make it better? Read the story the author answers that question for you. Light was never proposed to be a rational skeptic.
Well there's more to it than that and why there was a volume 13 with creators getting more indepth into their decisions for the final chapter.
This would be why I said similar, imagine, and I. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Light might not be a rational sceptic but a viewer is or should be. And if he is, the morality or necessity of Light's actions shouldn't raise any questions or twist one's beliefs since we simply observe that he's convinced in something and get the author's own answer in the end. I'm willing to get my hands on volume 13 and can only express dissappointment that they couldn't somehow incorporate those views in the actual narrative.
And that would be why I didn't talk about Nietszche in the first place. There's no reason to think he would approve even if Light does carry some similarities to his ideals. P.S. That was my final word. I think I've participated enough in utterly derailing this thread, my apologies to Vegetatown. 
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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There's no reason for the viewer to have to be a rational skeptic for the sake of this story or any story for that matter.
And there's no wording in my comment implying he would approve of Light or how this particular story was told. Now that we are agreeing on what I have not said care to try your hand at what did say? |
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TheSwedishElf
Posts: 300 |
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None of my posts are trolling. Trolling is deliberately trying to piss people off for fun. And oh, now I'm a STUPID troll, am I? Nice to see you taking the high road here. It's obvious you need to re-examine your amazing evidence of my supposed trollery. @Tuor_of_Gondolin Note that I never denied Light being a bad person. I just personally didn't think he was that bad right from the start. However, I also stated that I guess it should've been obvious how bad he'd turn out the minute his messiah complex was brought into play. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I thought one of the biggest factors of RAINBOW was that the villains are so realistic that they could have been real people. In fact, given the nature of the series, I wouldn't put it past the story to actually have based the characters on real-life people. True evil is not a devil with a pitchfork, it is a human who acts normal to his peers but is a monster to those weaker than himself. I found the show to be the best Anime of 2010. Although it never went quite in the direction I thought it would, I actually liked the (relatively) upbeat ending. But it wasn't the ending, it was the journey that really sealed it, especially in the first half of the show. I mean wow, talk about the massive emotional punches to the metaphorical gut. As an aside, I don't think RAINBOW is - in general, by the fandom at large - all that overrated. Hardly anyone ever talks about it on the forums, and it is only ranked at #352 on the bayesian list. That's hardly what I'd call an overrated Anime, but I suppose you disagree. |
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ThePoliced
Posts: 130 |
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@Arsenic steel
-.- Like i'm the only one who thinks this crap is otaku catering..
How the hell are they not similar?. 2 overtly smart dudes with "god" given powers trying to do good by doing morally questionable actions. Sound familiar? Just coz one is an apple and the other is a pear don't mean they ain't fruits.
You need.common. sense.
Oh give me a break smartsy pants, tell me it ain't true -.-
mmm not sure by what u mean by that, but saying they're overrated? FINE, tell me a show thats better/more popular/SIMILAR than those 2 and not overrated. I dare you. 5 e-bucks. But if you think they're not overrated, no bet. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Oh there could be others equally delusional enough to call Clannad an otaku catering show but numbers don't make you right in your assessment. On this forum alone there are people saying slice of life shows that have cute girls doing cute things is otaku catering, shows with flat chested(loli) or busty women are otaku catering, comedy shows that dare to require some manga/anime/Japanese knowledge to get the referential jokes are otaku catering, magical girl shows that have silhouetted transformation sequences are otaku catering, if the voice cast features a certain number of well-known seiyuu it's otaku catering, if the anime tries to stay close to the source material it's otaku catering and now here's you saying Clannad is otaku catering. So yeah to me the term otaku catering as on this forums looks ill-defined and you used it to avoid giving an actual explanation.
Death Note and Code Geass sound similar when over-simplified but do it differently and accomplish different its. To use your anecdote; it would be like saying "Pears,...apples do it better."
I am not acting as if this thread is in a vacuum. Sure there are other conversations across the world against Naruto, OP, Bleach, and other anime. Those conversations however are explanations as to why you think those shows are overrated.
What I mean by ironic is that you say others are jumping on the hate bandwagon of NGE or Bebop but you support your personal overrated anime list with logic that other people agree with you. That's irony. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18268 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Clannad is an otaku-catering show; that should be beyond doubt. Granted, it isn't the typical type of fan service-heavy, parody/homage-laden fare we normally think of as being otakucentric (and that may be why you're not seeing it as such), but its moe-laden formula is much too specifically tweaked to what otaku adored at that time for it to be fairly called anything else. [Moderator mode] Now, a general caution to all threat participants, because I'm starting to get complaints about this thread. Tone it down, guys 'n gals. Just because people are being stubborn or (in your opinion) short-sighted is no reason to be throwing around implied or outright insults. Those won't be tolerated in any case. And if you're going to belittle another title, you had best be backing it up with evidence beyond just your own personal tastes. Keep it civil or more drastic action will be taken. [/Moderator mode] |
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