Forum - View topicANNCast - ClannADCast
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Barbobot
 Posts: 460 |
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Didn't they already do an Evangelion show a long time ago? |
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invalidname
 Contributor Posts: 2461 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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Well, what did you think of Fruits Basket? |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4107 |
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A fun breakdown; A lot of people haven't seen the series and commented anyway so I'll add in my thoughts on the show and movie without listening to the podcast {sounds fair to me}.
It's five of the greatest dramatic anime episodes preceded by 30 plus episodes of foot shuffling and two episodes worth of an ending that doesn't quite come out of nowhere but feels unnecessary. I'm not saying a spoiler[every dies] ending would be popular but it negates its honest feelings that it did so well to create and develop. Those five episodes? Better than most of most of everything else they've done. As a series, it tries far too hard to please the fan base rather than making a coherent storyline out of a "visual novel"/girl game {Hey Fate/stay night, didn't see you come in. And you brought UBW along with you, how generous...}. The overall effect is that the series is easily the least of the trio. Air has its problems but meandering character focus or plotline isn't one of them. Kanon... Kanon is just fantastic, not just for having character arcs that play off of each other but by making a distinct order that has a psychological effect on the main character {spoiler[The girl Yuichi couldn't save or even help has to come first, otherwise his downword spiral into desprai would never have felt like it mattered. At the same time, since iit was mostly supernatural in design, it kept the audience's suspension of disbelief in check; After all, was she ever even real in the first place? ] It's just a lot more fun to talk about Kanon than Clannad} rather than a random order that doesn't seem to ever end and even creating non-canon side stories that have barely any bearing on their own story as a single episode is too short. It's beautiful and certainly the best looking as Air got shortchanged a bit on the animation and Kanon got a cheap visual design to save money {the series was never intended in the first place and part of its budget is financed by the restaurant the characters keep visiting; "Aren't their strawberry sundaes wonderful?" It's pretty funny product placement because there's not a lot of happy feelings involved with the place. Even the birthday party turned miserable} And again, off point. Clannad and After Story got all the budget and Kyoto Animation went all out in making the most comprehensive adaptation they could; They should have settled for "cohesive", like the movie. Not that I like the movie... Not liking the show for not liking "moe", I don't get that at all {It's a style, not a genre}. Isn't that like hating all shoujo works because of "probable heroine syndrome"? "What's that, you ask? First person POV romances have some issues, to put it mildly, trying to relate to a main character who has flaws but who is still totally ok; She doesn't have a boyfriend because, you know, we need a series... |
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鏡
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re: your last paragraph: I have no problem with doing moral analysis of media. My point was that using moral premises for critical conclusions is bad logic. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I don't really like that anime anymore! I just like the manga! 
Now Trigun, THAT could be a divisive subject! |
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Seif
 Posts: 457 |
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Hell yeah, Trigun. It's the reason I got into Law Enforcement.
Also, Hope's breakdown of the reset ending is the first time it's even remotely made a lick of sense to me. Good job. |
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invalidname
Contributor Posts: 2461 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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Yeah, but it's such a milestone anime for so many people, it might make for a good episode. |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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I'm just waiting with child-like anticipation for you guys to do a review of The Monogatari Series. I doubt it will ever happen, but damn, you would have a hay-day with that show in so many ways.
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鏡
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I feel like this would be genuinely entertaining. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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This has been suggested to me many times at this point. I've seen the first chunk of Bake and am curious to see the rest so we'll get to it at some point. |
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Fred the Barber
Posts: 12 |
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I wanted to say thanks to all three people for an excellent show. I'm a huge fan of Clannad, and I think Chris did an excellent job of accurately representing a lot of the reasons that I love the show. I also think Hope and Zac accurately tore up some of the weaker parts of the show.
That said, there are a couple small points which I wanted to offer, which have really colored how I see the show and made it a better experience for me to reflect on, and rarely to rewatch: 1) Most importantly, you need to understand the theme that the title was trying to express, and then look at the way it pervades every important scene in the entire show. Set aside the bad Engrish, and look at the intention behind it: this is a show about family, and what it means to each character we follow around. Tomoyo actually explains this in one scene during her arc, but it's easy to miss that it actually applies to everything: every single arc, from both Clannad and After Story, is centered around family. I'll spare going into gory detail on how I see every single scene screaming about the importance of family, but the next two points use this premise to counter a couple of the complaints made in the podcast. 2) For what it's worth, I agree with the consensus that Kotomi is not an especially deep character (although I still like her a bit more than Fuuko, who I mostly can't stand...), but she is, at least, far more complex than portrayed in the podcast. To dismiss her as just a child-like scatterbrain is to completely ignore the massive pain and guilt she clearly bears: she has a room filled with clippings about her parents, painstakingly hand-cut out of newspapers and books. The impact of the scene where you first walk into that room is huge: it's an altar to her dead parents, who died suddenly while she was young. Before Kotomi is helped out of her guilt by the beautiful scene with the briefcase, a deep need to atone for destroying her parents' contribution is motivating her entire existence. There's a lot more to her than that initial outward impression. The letter in the briefcase is pivotal because it completely erases her guilt by simultaneously exonerating her from any sort of destruction, and also affirming that she was the most important part of her parents' life, not some scientific research. 3) I can't remember who, but either Zac or Hope completely misinterpreted the scene of the twins crying after the tennis match (and also, I think, claimed it was "all the girls" crying; it's not). Go watch it again on youtube or something: they're not crying about losing Okazaki, or if they are, that's only a small part of it; as I see it, they're crying for each other. Even ignoring the "another world" Kyou episode, the Kyou arc is entirely about how much her sister means to her and how that conflicts with her own interest in Okazaki. If you dismiss Kyou as "the violent girl", then you're completely missing the huge importance she places on the protection and happiness of her own sister, which is emphasized throughout the whole show, not just during her arc. Honestly, I think Hope and Zac were just too jaded to appreciate the show as they watched it: if you're expecting to see tropes, then of course you'll find them. But you're doing the show and yourself a disservice if you stop looking deeper the moment you categorize a person and stop looking deeper. When I watch Clannad, I see a story filled with rich, loveable characters (and Fuuko); if all you see is flat tropes, then I honestly think you're just walling yourself against it subconsciously. Also, one more shout-out to Chris: despite the jab I made at Fuuko there, there is exactly one element I really appreciate about her, and Chris totally nailed it when discussing her arc: she's the first to appreciate that Nagisa and Tomoya are a good fit and need a little help, and she makes a huge contribution to that budding relationship. When I re-watch the show, I shed as many tears for that scene with the three of them in the drama club at night as I do for any other part of the show, even including the tragic parts of After Story.[/list] |
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Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
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This seems to be a "if you don't like what I like you aren't doing it right" argument. |
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Arsenette
 Posts: 175 |
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Nothing more to add other than I like new addition of the reviews in podcast format. Was really fun to listen to the wildly varying points of view. I hope it continues and can't wait to hear more of these types of podcasts.
P.S. I watched Clannad when it came out in DVD in full but it wasn't something I needed to buy. Just not something I wanted to see again but I didn't hate it. |
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dewlwieldthedarpachief
 Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
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I could have forgiven everything if they didn't tack on that spoiler[feel good happy] ending.
spoiler[Seriously, before that came around I felt like the transition from a fluffy, meaningless sitcom into a provocative tragedy would have been a much more compelling direction to go with those characters.] spoiler[The magical side story just felt like it was betraying that inspired development; people way back when argued it was clearly presented and intertwined with the main story, and that may well be the case,] but in effect I feel pandered to and sort of robbed of an opportunity to see something more mature and pensive. |
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invalidname
Contributor Posts: 2461 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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I know I sound like a broken record here, but it sure sounds like you'd be better served with something like Anohana or Rumbling Hearts. Possibly Nagi no Asukara too, but I'm only halfway through that… maybe someone else can follow up? |
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