Forum - View topicREVIEW: Freezing BD+DVD
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Not necessarily. As I said, the point of training is to improve individual skills and, when we're talking group training, teamwork and organizational issues. It's *not* to simply expose them to getting maimed and brutalized. If the results don't improve the overall fighting capabilities of the organization, then it is wasted at best, detrimental at worst. Think about military special forces. The government regards specops guys as *valuable* resources. They spend a *lot* of money training and equipping them, and a lot of time, too. After investing all that time and money in them, they are careful how they use them: you do not, for example, use special forces troops to charge an enemy line on a battlefield if you can in any way help it. You use grunts for that. Special forces guys spend lots and lots of time training, and their training can be very realistic, but the goal of it is to improve their abilities, see where their strengths and weaknesses lie, improve tactics, see how the latest equipment works, and so on. Serious injuries do not occur except in cases of misfortune or (rarely) carelessness. What they were doing with the Pandoras isn't what I would call "training". It seemed like an excuse by the writers to show them brutalizing one another, and it seemed to hover on that with disturbing enthusiasm. I understand your objection, but I disagree that the sort of training shown was something that any organization would realistically use. |
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getchman
 He started itPosts: 9127 Location: Bedford, NH |
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yeah, it doesn't make a damn bit of sense what they are doing. However, conventional military weaponry does jack shit against these things. Somewhere along the line, someone said "hey lets harvest some of alien tissue,, grow it, harvest it, then implant it into to teenage girls and see what happens. Oh, they became super powered blood nights that can take down these monsters but run the risk of becoming the monsters they fight if they push themselves too far. Sounds great, lets set up schools all around the world and train legions of these girls, what could possible go wrong?" at this point, a school sanctioned battle royal to determine who is the most powerful doesn't really seem like a big deal.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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{previous replies snipped for length}
First of all, as I mentioned, there were *two* reasons for my dropping it. I was already inclined to drop it even before the Fateful Collision occurred, but that simply crushed any latent desire I had to complete it. In fact, I didn't finish the episode even though there were only a few minutes left. You reacted differently to it than I did. That's fine. I don't require (or really want) everyone to react the same way to everything that I do. You also said that the reasons were "good" and "logical". Here we disagree: I didn't find the reason to be a good one at all, nor did I find it logical in the least. In fact, I found the reason to be terrible and the reaction made no sense at all. All it did was reinforce my feeling that the internal logic for the whole series was badly flawed and unpalatable. I didn't need to see more episodes to reach that conclusion. Yes, it was *possible* that I was wrong, but nothing I've heard about this series since then has made me feel like I made a mistake. It's not always necessary to watch a lot of something to determine if it is bad (or good). When I channel-surf stuff on TV, I can usually tell within 1/2 to 1 second if something is worth watching, same with music. Sometimes, I'll give an anime several episodes and then eventually drop it (I think 14 episodes is the longest I've gone, with Nabari no Ou -- *man* do I regret the time I wasted on that one). But for Freezing? Less than one episode. I don't regret that at all.
True, but does it make sense within the context of the world the story takes place in? From what you said, I get the impression you think that it was a pretty stupid setup: that it didn't make a lot of sense. If the whole alien invasion thing were to actually happen, and we did somehow come up with this crazy idea of implanting alien tissue within teenage girls, *would* we create legions of them, and *would* we train them the way they trained them? I'd say, "Hell no!" That's part of what I'm talking about with the "bad writing" thing. Military isn't just about grunts with guns shooting things, it is how you organize a force to engage and defeat an enemy. It's the difference between a mob and, say, a square of pikemen, or a formation of hoplites. That's what I meant by the writers using this sort of thing as an "excuse". It doesn't matter if there are aliens or if conventional military strategies are useless. It's about showing well-endowed teenaged girls beating the crap out of each other, and of course the banal teen male lead is somehow vitally important to success! Yes, all fiction involves a certain amount of contrivance, but when those contrivances are aimed at such a gruesome goal... it actually makes me a little mad at the writers. Last edited by Tuor_of_Gondolin on Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18270 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Oh, I'm pretty sure that I'll be the one doing the Qwaser reviews when they come up. Not sure yet how I'll grade that, as it's one of those series that's entertaining without being particularly good. And I dearly, dearly hope that no one has the guts to license Manyuu Hikenchou, as I don't want to have to set through a whole season of that. Do keep in mind that I panned that one in its Preview Guide harder than any title I've ever panned. |
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KLAC
Exempt from Grammar Rules
 Posts: 1122 |
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well anything can happen in anime world besides really IF funi-service do even try get manyuu anime indeed either goes YES YES YES or like indeed finally jump to f-service overload. yet they also dub Freezing so include this part http://tenka.seiha.org/images2/freezingdvd5/freezingdvd5_32.jpg sure unless they being tempt to get manyuu? overall yea Freezing anime indeed 5 or 6 seeing the dub indeed it's buy nuff said. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I was uncomfortable with the brutality (call me what you like but I simply do not like seeing females suffer). However, that was not the reason I dropped the show after one episode. I dropped it because it seemed like a horrible mis-mash of tropes taken from better-written stories. No wait, I didn't even drop it because of that.
I actually dropped it because of the final scene of the episode. To be more precise, that scene provided context to the rest of the episode and the show's aims in general. When that boy - who looks and acts like he's in primary school - stumbles into the main girl's breasts and she moans in pleasure and is unable to move, I made the decision to drop the show. I already knew and had accepted that I wasn't it's intended audience. But it was at that precise moment that I realised this show and I were simply not compatible. I can handle the sort of sadism present in the show if it is for the sake of making a legitimate point. But I realised that no, the disturbing violence of girls hacking other girls apart was merely meant to titillate the audience. That repulsed me. To me it doesn't matter why the girl doesn't like being touched (and thanks to some blogs I know the general gist of it). Every bit of horrendous suffering that she goes through was just going to be for the enjoyment of a certain group of people. I know this seems like a strange conclusion to arrive at from a single scene where a boy accidentally touches a girl (a scenario so commonplace in Anime it is probably required by law). But that's what I realised. I saw how quickly the show undermined its own lead female character purely for the pleasure of the audience, and decided I wanted to have no part in it. PMMM aired in the same season as Freezing, and it put its cast of girls through the wringer. But their suffering was not for our enjoyment. Freezing on the other hand made me want to take a shower. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6883 Location: Kazune City |
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As usual, there's no arguing with the die-hard Crystal Ball Critics out there, whose mantra is "if everything isn't perfectly explained by the end of episode 1, then the whole show is poorly written and terrible."
Or there's Carlo Santos' Girls Bravo v2 review:
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modell
Posts: 2 |
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If I remember correctly, you only saw the first episode right? The series completely changes tone after first episode. Nearly the rest of the show is basically a episodic goofy wandering ronin tale. I found the comedy and character of Chifusa to be really enjoyable. But then again, I enjoyed the filler episodes of Qwaser much more than the actual plot episodes. Apart full on hentai, Manyuu Hikenchou is the only series from Hoods Entertainment that hasn't been licensed yet. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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You seem to be forgetting/ignoring some facts. These girls are not only special forces, they are part of the 1% they represent wealth/powerworldwide. Teachers in charge of training can't really use standard disciplinary actions with these kind of people, that is why it is mostly self regulated by the students themselves. Add to this the fact that this is a near future where if you get one or two limbs severed or even get a stake through your heart you can continue living (and fighting), then what we consider to be brutal is only considered injuries that require medical attention (no one is really worried nowadays if you broke a leg bone, nowadays people do not die of that if they are taken to an hospital). Last, it has already been said that people in general (that includes women) that receive overwhelming physical powers IN REAL LIFE tend to become villians, not heroes like in comic books, so the girls are acting realistically. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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{Snipped my earlier post.}
I find myself disagreeing with pretty much every single point you just made. First, they should be getting trained by military people, not "teachers". But even so... why can't they use normal methods for training? Just because they're different physically doedsn't mean they are imprevious to mental/emotional punishments or reinforcements. The idea here is survival, not status, or it should be. And a broken leg is no big deal? You can take a stake through the heart and continue fighting? Losing a limb isn't a show stopper? In the near future? Uh... you get a stake through the heart and you are DONE, and I don't see that changing in the near future. Lose a limb? Iffy if you can survive, and replacing it is not a walk in the park, nor does that appear to be something that will change in the near future. Broken bones, depending on which ones, aren't life threatening, true, but that's been the case for a long time: it's simply knowledge and patience, not applied technology, though I agree that helps. And yes, people who become powerful tend to become selfish, arrogant jerks. But this can be avoided, and not buy having them sadisticly brutalize one another. I'm sorry, but all I'm getting from this is an attempt to rationalize the brutality into something acceptable and "realistic". I just can't agree with your points. |
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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Look, stop trying to apply logic to Freezing, it doesn't work. Its just a recipe for rage. (see my earlier posts)
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Truth is ugly, but that is not reason enough to disagree.
Only said teachers have the special implants (Stigmata) that allows them to battle NOVA. Asking them to have normal humans (military personnel or otherwise) teachers to teach them how to use them is akin to having someone born deaf to teach you music. OK, so they could have military personel for classes where they teach them discipline, what prevents them from crushing the bones or the spirit of said person? morals? be real.
So should be in an ideal world, but even in the most dire of circustances most people think about themselves unless somehow coerced (be it physically, mentally or both). In the ideal world you talk about the levy would never have been standard procedure.
I am talking about the anime (and by extension, the original manga). You might call it irrealistic that people in the future receive physical trauma and yet they can be restored to full health, but modern science has been making quite some progress lately, so I would not rule it out in the next 10 or 20 years. i.e. did you know cancer cells require little oxigen? if said mechanism could be made to work on normal human cells every time there is a trauma you can see how even an impaired hearth can be of no consequence, and also there is the research into cloning human organs.
Excuse me but I would like you to tell me how, with as much detail as you can.
Lets not confuse "I do not agree for X reason" with "I do not want to agree that humankind nowadays can be that brutal under certain circumstances". |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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The latter is not even close to what he said. What he actually said is: "I'm sorry, but all I'm getting from this is an attempt to rationalize the brutality into something acceptable and "realistic". I just can't agree with your points." He is saying that he can't agree with your points because they come off as an empty rationalization. And he's right. Whether you can potentially explain all the cruel and violent acts in this show as "realistic" is pretty meaningless for a show like this. It might be valid if we were talking about a show that was actually trying to be a dark and realistic examination of violence. However, (and I can't emphasize this enough), we aren't. We're talking about a show that is essentially an Ikki Tousen style titty fighter. This is a show that is totally fundamentally absurd. More over, the intent of the show couldn't be more obvious. This is a show designed from the ground up to provide titillation for men. Hence, whether it is "realistic" that all that sadism be in there, it could not be more obvious that this isn't why it's in there. Nor does it make it any more appropriate either. I think I mentioned this before but I don't actually object to sadism and violence. I just want it to serve a purpose and sure as hell don't want to see it in a goofy fanservice show alongside a bunch of cute, half naked girls who are apparently supposed to be arousing. Whether this is "realistic" or somehow plot justified changes nothing. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18270 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Realism went out the window in this one the first time Ganessa Roland started manipulating around those chains of hers, if not earlier.
And Tuor: Yeah, in later episodes this one does have Pandoras coming back even from having both arms ripped off like nothing had happened, and surviving one's throat being slashed is apparently pretty rudimentary for Pandoras. (The one who lost the entire lower half of her body didn't survive, though.) How fast and completely Pandoras can heal from major trauma is never detailed and inconsistently applied, unlike in something like, say, Claymore. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I think I'll leave what ikillchicken said in place of my own response, since he said what I felt better than I probably could have (or, at least, more briefly).
Key, I was thinking about Claymore when someone earlier talked about implanting alien DNA into young women. I thought about how differently the same issues are portrayed... I mean the circumstances around them and how the Organization in Claymore kept control of the Claymores and how they responded if a Claymore left the reservation. I think it's interesting and apt to contrast and compare Claymore and Freezing to each other, though I won't do that here. What I will say is that I loved Claymore and I *despised* Freezing, even though both series had so many similarities in them. |
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