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Scherzo
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 149
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 Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:41 am
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| Cptn_Taylor wrote: |
| Scherzo wrote: | |
I wouldn't even go so far as to say it's because Ichigo is straight. The subtext I got was that she isn't even cognizant that such powerful female bonds, romantic or otherwise, are possible. |
 Ichigo is straighter than an iron ruler.
It's simply amazing watching the utter desperation of yuri fans clinging to things that just aren't there. |
I mean, to be honest it's less about me seeing them as like a particular viable pairing so much as wanting to avoid Ikuno being punished for being gay, as James has worried will likely be the case.
My take is that her worldview has been cloistered to the extent that she hasn't really considered that strong female-female bonds are possible. To be honest, I don't see them ending up as a couple, but I do see them being able to forge a strong enough relationship to power a Franxx.
| Coup d'État wrote: | | I'm still not convinced that the problems behind the parings working/not working isn't just sloppy writing.
Every episode, I sit there wondering "is this show trying to tell a deeper story, or nah?" |
To me it's pretty clear that it's about the emotional hang ups of the Parasites; not limited to heterosexual attraction.
| Quote: | | I'm also not too happy with how Futoshi is threaded. He's going the "fat = pathetic" route, which, at very least, is not original.
"How do we convey that this one guy is a bit of a clingy, clueless dude without making him seem threatening?" "Eh, just make him fat, that'll do both."
I'm not a fan of that. I have a few issues like that with the show, and sometimes I think they'll get back and address them, because they were put there on purpose.
On the other hand, maybe it's just a silly Anime and I'm waaay over thinking this. |
I mean yeah, Justin did an Answerman about how fatshaming is still culturally acceptable in Japan and that definitely is icky, but I have no problems with him being called out for his Nice Guy tendencies. His problem isn't that he's fat, but that he thinks his affection for Kokoro means they have a strong relationship. His failure to understand what lengths Kokoro is willing to go to are proof of that. So while I feel the fat jokes are dumb, I don't think what they're doing with his character vis a vis Kokoro is bad honestly.
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:56 am
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I would love if in the reactions I've seen there were less taking sides and more understanding that they are all (maybe Goro aside) dumb teenagers that can't deal with their emotions properly. Futoshi is clingy and fails to notice that Kokoro might feel different, Kokoro is a yes person, who fails to speak out about how she actually feels. The result is she hears him talking about marriage and just bails, while he has no idea what just happened and why she suddenly abandoned him. If they actually talked with each other, they might even talk it out. Welcome to adolescence.
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Scherzo
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:35 am
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| jl07045 wrote: | | I would love if in the reactions I've seen there were less taking sides and more understanding that they are all (maybe Goro aside) dumb teenagers that can't deal with their emotions properly. Futoshi is clingy and fails to notice that Kokoro might feel different, Kokoro is a yes person, who fails to speak out about how she actually feels. The result is she hears him talking about marriage and just bails, while he has no idea what just happened and why she suddenly abandoned him. If they actually talked with each other, they might even talk it out. Welcome to adolescence. |
I think we all mostly agree that is what happened, we just all have different readings on what it all means. Some people are reading it as an attack on Futoshi's character, but I think it's a hard lesson all teenage boys need to learn; that liking someone really hard isn't enough to get them to like you back.
At the very least, this episode has made me remember Futoshi and Kokoro's names. Sort of curious though, who do y'all think will get the spotlight next episode? Ikuno, Futoshi, or Miku?
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:16 pm
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| Scherzo wrote: | | I think we all mostly agree that is what happened, we just all have different readings on what it all means. Some people are reading it as an attack on Futoshi's character, but I think it's a hard lesson all teenage boys need to learn; that liking someone really hard isn't enough to get them to like you back. |
The problem is that they are in quasi-relationship already so the whole situation is framed as classic netorare.
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Scherzo
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:30 pm
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| jl07045 wrote: |
| Scherzo wrote: | | I think we all mostly agree that is what happened, we just all have different readings on what it all means. Some people are reading it as an attack on Futoshi's character, but I think it's a hard lesson all teenage boys need to learn; that liking someone really hard isn't enough to get them to like you back. |
The problem is that they are in quasi-relationship already so the whole situation is framed as classic netorare. |
I don't think it was ever really 'framed' as anything; All we saw was Futoshi giving Kokoro verbal headpats and Kokoro awkwardly accepting them.
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:46 pm
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Well you can go to a otaku heavy website and see what kinds of terms they throw around about this situation. I can only reiterate that they are kinda in a relationship and from Futoshi's pow this is very sudden and can be interpreted as betrayal. We'll see in the next episodes how he actually tries to deal with it.
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:57 pm
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| jl07045 wrote: | | I would love if in the reactions I've seen there were less taking sides and more understanding that they are all (maybe Goro aside) dumb teenagers that can't deal with their emotions properly. Futoshi is clingy and fails to notice that Kokoro might feel different, Kokoro is a yes person, who fails to speak out about how she actually feels. The result is she hears him talking about marriage and just bails, while he has no idea what just happened and why she suddenly abandoned him. If they actually talked with each other, they might even talk it out. Welcome to adolescence. |
This is why the Zorome-Miku pair stands head and shoulders above all the other pilots and their relationships. No drama, no cuckolding, no forced love triangle crap. Just two tsunderes who deep down care about each other, with lots of entertaining banter in between. Also Zorome's direct character growth is tied to him realizing how much he loves Miku. The rest can't compete.
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:32 pm
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| Scherzo wrote: | | I just don't know if it's romantic; I'm pretty certain it's not on Mitsuru's part at least. For Kokoro, maybe, but I wouldn't pigeonhole her into having romantic feelings for Mitsuru just yet. |
It is unclear at the moment if it is supposed to be romantic. Kokoro is concerned for Mitsuru and knows that he is struggling much more than he is willing to admit. While no one has said it out loud everyone knows what happens to the parasites that can't pilot. Mitsuru knows that Kokoro is trying to help him and that his anger towards Hiro is starting to hurt other people. That he moves past that anger is what allows him to pilot again.
| CrowLia wrote: | | It was the opposite to me, honestly. If Nana had dismissed it, then you could say the dystopian society is repressing homosexual expressions, but since Nana agreed to testing, that doesn't seem to be the case; rather, the show itself spousing the idea that gay relationships aren't viable whatsoever. |
Ichigo said afterwards that she knew it wouldn't work without a boy which would explain why it failed. Also it was mentioned several times that Zero Two was the only pistil that could pilot a Franxx by herself but it sure looked like Kokoro was about to go into stampede mode. Considering that they have unique Franxx that are different than the standard model I think it is very likely that we will see some surprise developments.
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Mojave
Joined: 07 May 2017
Posts: 178
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:05 pm
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| Scherzo wrote: | |
I mean, to be honest it's less about me seeing them as like a particular viable pairing so much as wanting to avoid Ikuno being punished for being gay, as James has worried will likely be the case.
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Her not eventually successfully pairing with Ichigo wouldn't be her getting punished for being gay, though. The idea that it is ignores the sexuality/humanity of the other pilots. There are only four female pilots. So far, we know one of them is gay, and that the other three have given all indications that they are straight. If there are only four girls and only one of them is gay, then yes, she's not going to get her happy lesbian relationship with one of them. So insisting that Ikuno has to get successfully paired with one of them is, honestly, quite offensive. Plus, Ichigo is already in a love triangle with Hiro and Goro, so saying that Ikuno has to get paired with her is elevating her sexuality above all of theirs.
Of course, the show's message about relationships has already been a bit muddled and it hasn't always been consistent about its central metaphor with piloting the Franxx equaling romantic relationship, so it's possible that something could change and Ikuno could eventually successfully pilot with Ichigo. However, she's most certainly not being punished for being gay if that doesn't happen, and the idea that she has to have her feelings returned by Ichigo or else it's anti-gay is incredibly insidious.
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Alternative Ice
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 95
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:02 pm
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| Gina Szanboti wrote: | | It was a functional relationship as far as the Franxx were concerned, but outside of that it was only perfect in appearance. |
In earlier episodes whenever there was a shot of the pilot's synch ratios, Futoshi and Kokoro's were always among the lowest, so even in that aspect I'd say they were setting up that their relationship was only superficially perfect.
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TasteyCookie
Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 421
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:01 pm
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By the way to anyone who like in-depth literary analysis, I stumbled across a YouTube channel named "Nearly On Red" that does a fantastic episode by episode analysis of Darling in the Franxx. Each episode analysis is nearly an hour long, and the guy really knows what he's doing. Watching all of his episode analysis has definitely made me much more excited for each week's episode and makes it very clear the staff has a semblance of knowing what they are doing with the theme running under the surface.
Would highly recommend if you are into that sort of thing. Definitely increased my enjoyment of the show.
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Hiroki not Takuya
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 2560
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:28 pm
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See my post 2/17, I think they are doing just what they showed in the opener. Also, anyone care to talk about the war that is hinted to be going on and how the "nines" fit in? Do their fancy uniforms qualify them being "dressed to the nines"?
Also, about what "stampede" means... 
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Scherzo
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:38 pm
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So this episode, for the most part, put the development of the supporting cast on hold to return to 02 and Hiro. I do like that they're not treating the fact that parasite can never become 'Adults' as a twist, as that has been pretty obvious for awhile, though I wonder how they'll handle Zorome's character in that case. I did like Mitsuru still being irritated at Hiro's seeming amnesia as well. And obviously Kokoro has to make oblique reference to baby-making, still not sure how that's going to pay off.
As for the main element of the episode, there are a couple ways of reading the Hiro-02 relationship in this episode and I'm not sure which one I come down on. The pessimistic view is that it's setting up Hiro to *fix* 02 (which had been a sort of looming potentiality from the beginning), to teach her what it 'really' means to be human or whatever. But I think it could be more introspective than that. I think 02's excessive carnality is portrayed as wrong not because of an inherent quality of it, but rather because it serves to fill a deficiency in herself. I think whether it's problematic or not is whether 02's carnality is contextualized as just part of 02's nature and simply the way of expressing it, out of a sense of incompleteness, is wrong. It sort of reminds me how I've gone back and forth on Misato from NGE, whether she's being slutshammed or just frankly discussing the anxieties of a woman thrust into a world that's unkind to her.
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:22 pm
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| Scherzo wrote: | | I think 02's excessive carnality is portrayed as wrong not because of an inherent quality of it, but rather because it serves to fill a deficiency in herself. |
I would argue it is portrayed as wrong because:
a) She's unhinged.
b) She's putting the whole squad in mortal danger with her refusal to obey plans or any sort of tactics.
c) She has crippled the lives of hundreds of boys in a futile pursuit to become human, and our MC is next on the chopping block.
Also, the opening confirmed Mitsuru and Kokoro are an official stamen-pistil pair now.
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yuna49
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:39 pm
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| Chrysostomus wrote: | | Also, the opening confirmed Mitsuru and Kokoro are an official stamen-pistil pair now. |
As well as Ikuno and Futoshi. I wonder how many other pairings they made for the OP. Maybe none, since it will probably be replaced at the mid-point.
I really like the OP for this show. it's so uncommon to hear sultry, lower-register women's voices in anime songs, especially with the trend to having the seiyuu perform the songs in their character voices like in the ED's by "XX:me" (aka "Kiss Me").
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