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EP. REVIEW: DARLING in the FRANXX


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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15557
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:46 pm Reply with quote
kinghumanity wrote:
1 - If the Franxx doesn't function at all without the girl partner, and it took a returning Ichigo to pilot the two of them back to safety, then what was the point of ejecting Ichigo in the first place? Why can't they just fly out without getting Goro stuck? And why can the Franxx only eject the girl, but not the boy?


I actually have an answer to this. One would remember the other team they come across, where the team leader apparently lost his partner previously. It has not outright been said, and although it has mostly been shown be a sharing of pain that the female partner has with the mech, I think that there is a real chance that feedback of heavy damage could kill her. Thus why there is an escape pod for the female member if damage may go over.

I can't remember the extent, but we might have seen this when Zero Two was being hit by the transforming enemy.
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James_Beckett
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Joined: 23 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:47 pm Reply with quote
Scherzo wrote:
I dunno if I read what it's doing as entirely heteronormative. It's not like in Brave New World where John's desire for Traditional Romanticism is contrasted against the amoral hedonism of Modernity, at least not in the same way. It's people pantomiming the customs of the nuclear family without it having any actual meaning. And obviously it could go two ways; either it's saying recapturing the meaning is fundamental to the human experience, or that there can be alternatives to it. But I don't think, as of yet, that it's as cut and dry as that (I still think Ikuno is likely gay while Mitsuru might be Ace).


This is a very valid point. My big worry, though is how the show would frame those deviations from traditional heterosexuality; I could see the show having Ikuno filling the role of the Tragic Gay character who is essentially punished for her homosexuality, and Mitsuru's lack of interest in anyone bit himself isn't painting a flattering picture of people that aren't necessarily interested in sex.

But yore right, there's still a lot of time left for DARLING to explore those ideas in a more nuance and unexpected way; I certainly hope it does!
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:49 pm Reply with quote
James Beckett wrote:
This episode's small peek at how this dystopia functions is very much Science-Fiction 101, and while I would like DARLING to be a little more experimental with its social commentary in general, I'm equally wary of the way the show seems to be equating a traditional heterosexual pair in a nuclear family with the “correct” form of human experience.
The idea that the nuclear family is outdated makes as much sense as the idea that breathing is outdated. I do find it amusing that political correctness has gotten to the point where a story about a dystopian society is now considered controversial since some people don't see the problem with the dystopian society. The reason that Darling in the FranXX gets so much feminist outrage each week is because it is about heterosexual relationships, family bonds, and the dangers of authoritarian governments.

AksaraKishou wrote:
Cause i wouldn't call a show, with an average of 1500 comments per week, as not thought provoking.
The show is thought provoking since it is causing people to think about the long term health of society.
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James_Beckett
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Joined: 23 Nov 2015
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Location: USA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:59 pm Reply with quote
Chrono1000 wrote:
James Beckett wrote:
This episode's small peek at how this dystopia functions is very much Science-Fiction 101, and while I would like DARLING to be a little more experimental with its social commentary in general, I'm equally wary of the way the show seems to be equating a traditional heterosexual pair in a nuclear family with the “correct” form of human experience.
The idea that the nuclear family is outdated makes as much sense as the idea that breathing is outdated. I do find it amusing that political correctness has gotten to the point where a story about a dystopian society is now considered controversial since some people don't see the problem with the dystopian society. The reason that Darling in the FranXX gets so much feminist outrage each week is because it is about heterosexual relationships, family bonds, and the dangers of authoritarian governments.


The nuclear family isn't outtdated (I came from one myself, and I'm happily married) , but I would argue that it is a bit out of date to point to the heterosexual nuclear family as the paragon of the human experience, while paying little to no attention to other, equally viable modes of living. Again, the show hasn't yet solidified all of its ideas, but has what feel like is a fairly clear trajectory in regards to its thematic intent. I won't hate the show for having whatever message it wants to have, but I certainly reserve the right to be critical of it.
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AksaraKishou



Joined: 16 May 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:09 pm Reply with quote
James_Beckett wrote:
but I certainly reserve the right to be critical of it.


And that's we're looking forward to "James Beckett's" reviews each week and not just "ANN's" thoughts on the episode. Keep it up. Smile
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VerQuality



Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 138
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:02 pm Reply with quote
This episode hinted at some interesting ideas about this dystopia, and the separation of relationships from biological necessity. In terms of pure biology, a relationship is a unit designed to produce and raise a child, and it was largely still this way until comparatively recently; it was simply impossible for a single individual to both maintain a house and provide for it. As asinine as we find it now, the notion that a woman's role was in the home was based on the fact that cooking, cleaning, and caring for children was a full time job (even more so than the 'male' role of going out to work to provide for food and shelter). In the modern world, technology such as vacuums and washing machines have made cleaning vastly more efficient, packaged food and take out have made cooking vastly more effective, and overall, maintaining a home is no longer a full time job, and economic necessity is no longer a driving force for relationships, it's now rather based on emotional need and desire (and hence the massive expansion in people living alone).

The society we see in the Plantation takes that a step further, emotional needs and desire are fulfilled by machines as well, which removes anything we could identify as a 'relationship' between partners in this society. Living together is treated as not much different than deciding you want a lamp in the living room, and given APE's drive for conformity, it's likely even this much self-expression is unusual.

So the parasite's versus the plantation citizens appears like a conflict between a relationship rooted deeply in the historical requirements that necessitated them, and one completely devoid of these requirements. One is framed in terms of absolute need (you can't pilot a Franxx on your own, and piloting a Franxx is the only reason parasites are kept around), and one is framed in the absolute lack of need (forget economic reasons, even emotional and sexual needs can be met by pleasure pods). I'm not sure how much this series will succeed in making a statement about this, but it definitely is inspiring a lot of discussion, at least. Most series (that I follow, at least) are lucky to get 5 new posts an episode, and most of them are just speculation on the plot.
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Chrysostomus



Joined: 11 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:04 pm Reply with quote
James_Beckett wrote:
The nuclear family isn't outtdated (I came from one myself, and I'm happily married) , but I would argue that it is a bit out of date to point to the heterosexual nuclear family as the paragon of the human experience, while paying little to no attention to other, equally viable modes of living.
Ya know, when humanity is forced to live in closed-off ambulatory shelters under the daily threat of extinction by a mysterious horde of enormous society-destroying monsters, no "other modes of living" are comparable to heterosexuality. The two fundamental objectives in the evolutionary game of life are to first survive (natural selection) and then to mate (sexual selection). Yes, evolution itself is heteronormative and when the survival of an entire species is at stake, to even entertain the notion that "other modes of living" are equal to heterosexuality is ridiculously suicidal.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:26 pm Reply with quote
I for one would welcome more discussion of the shows' actual story/plot rather than picking them apart for homosexual themes or lack thereof or whether the reviewer is "right" or not.
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vonPeterhof



Joined: 10 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:35 pm Reply with quote
Chrysostomus wrote:
Ya know, when humanity is forced to live in closed-off ambulatory shelters under the daily threat of extinction by a mysterious horde of enormous society-destroying monsters, no "other modes of living" are comparable to heterosexuality. The two fundamental objectives in the evolutionary game of life are to first survive (natural selection) and then to mate (sexual selection). Yes, evolution itself is heteronormative and when the survival of an entire species is at stake, to even entertain the notion that "other modes of living" are equal to heterosexuality is ridiculously suicidal.
Do we even have reason to believe that the society in the show relies on sexual reproduction for its continuation? While the imagery accompanying the woman's speech about "old customs" did seem to imply that she may have had personal experience with sexual reproduction, the speech itself seems to lump it together with the other "uncomfortable" lifestyle anachronisms that are no longer necessary. For all we know, all or most new humans could be being created via cloning or artificially grown in lab conditions. Which is something that seems very likely in light of how expendable and replaceable Parasites (or at least, those of them who aren't Zero Two or part of an experimental group) are implied to be.


(Do I feel like starting an argument about whether or not "the survival of an entire species" is an intrinsic good? Nah, not today Very Happy )
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Scherzo



Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:48 pm Reply with quote
James_Beckett wrote:


This is a very valid point. My big worry, though is how the show would frame those deviations from traditional heterosexuality; I could see the show having Ikuno filling the role of the Tragic Gay character who is essentially punished for her homosexuality, and Mitsuru's lack of interest in anyone bit himself isn't painting a flattering picture of people that aren't necessarily interested in sex.

But yore right, there's still a lot of time left for DARLING to explore those ideas in a more nuance and unexpected way; I certainly hope it does!


I think its complicated by the Love Polygon that snakes it's way out from Hiro. Obviously he's going to end up with 02, but how Ichigo, Goro and Ikuno will play out is still definitely up in the air. The issue as you said though is that it doesn't seem like whatever feelings Ikuno may have will be requited. I can't see this as saying that homosexuals are incomplete beings though, what with Not!Kaworu appearing a few episodes back, so I wonder if we'll get a spotlight episode on Ikuno in the near future. As for Mitsuru, I think it goes beyond just being an egotistical prick; he was pretty checked out of the whole 'battle of the sexes' thing in a way that makes me thinks it's important.

There were a couple of interesting things that came up that I was surprised you didn't mention. A smaller one was the beat with Ichigo and Goro, where Goro gets a bit of coldfeet to how affecionate he was to her last episode, while Ichigo still fixates on Hiro and 02. But I think what was probably more interesting was how Nana chides Hiro for not being able to 'rein 02 in'. I think that calls into question like the surface level explanation of their relationship, that his role is to 'break a wild horse' which is creepy in the way that a lot of Manic Pixy Dream Girl stuff is. I hope whatever they're doing with 02 continues to develop next episode, because I don't want her deal to just be a generic tragic backstory revealed in the 11th Hour.
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James_Beckett
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Joined: 23 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:51 pm Reply with quote
Scherzo wrote:
James_Beckett wrote:


This is a very valid point. My big worry, though is how the show would frame those deviations from traditional heterosexuality; I could see the show having Ikuno filling the role of the Tragic Gay character who is essentially punished for her homosexuality, and Mitsuru's lack of interest in anyone bit himself isn't painting a flattering picture of people that aren't necessarily interested in sex.

But yore right, there's still a lot of time left for DARLING to explore those ideas in a more nuance and unexpected way; I certainly hope it does!


I think its complicated by the Love Polygon that snakes it's way out from Hiro. Obviously he's going to end up with 02, but how Ichigo, Goro and Ikuno will play out is still definitely up in the air. The issue as you said though is that it doesn't seem like whatever feelings Ikuno may have will be requited. I can't see this as saying that homosexuals are incomplete beings though, what with Not!Kaworu appearing a few episodes back, so I wonder if we'll get a spotlight episode on Ikuno in the near future. As for Mitsuru, I think it goes beyond just being an egotistical prick; he was pretty checked out of the whole 'battle of the sexes' thing in a way that makes me thinks it's important.

There were a couple of interesting things that came up that I was surprised you didn't mention. A smaller one was the beat with Ichigo and Goro, where Goro gets a bit of coldfeet to how affecionate he was to her last episode, while Ichigo still fixates on Hiro and 02. But I think what was probably more interesting was how Nana chides Hiro for not being able to 'rein 02 in'. I think that calls into question like the surface level explanation of their relationship, that his role is to 'break a wild horse' which is creepy in the way that a lot of Manic Pixy Dream Girl stuff is. I hope whatever they're doing with 02 continues to develop next episode, because I don't want her deal to just be a generic tragic backstory revealed in the 11th Hour.


I usually don't comment on plot details if I feel like they're redundant to past epusodes' material, or if they don't add much to what's going on in the episode, which is how I felt about most of the non-Zorome material in this episode. The Zero Two material is simply foreshadowing future stuff, I I thought that the Ichigo/Goro beats were mostly just reminding the audience of what went down last week: Goro confessed, but Ichigo still doesn't know how to feel. It was a good moment, though, for sure.
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Squidslinger



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
I for one would welcome more discussion of the shows' actual story/plot rather than picking them apart for homosexual themes or lack thereof or whether the reviewer is "right" or not.


Thank you!

This is just ridiculous! All because the reviewer can't analyze a story properly without going off on an opinion tangent. You don't do that in professional reviews. You look at the world lore and analyze from that. Where the plot holes are, where it does the story right or wrong in relation to that. Save your personal comments for the final review of the series in a special opinion review segment.
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ThatMoonGuy



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:57 pm Reply with quote
Squidslinger wrote:
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
I for one would welcome more discussion of the shows' actual story/plot rather than picking them apart for homosexual themes or lack thereof or whether the reviewer is "right" or not.


Thank you!

This is just ridiculous! All because the reviewer can't analyze a story properly without going off on an opinion tangent. You don't do that in professional reviews. You look at the world lore and analyze from that. Where the plot holes are, where it does the story right or wrong in relation to that. Save your personal comments for the final review of the series in a special opinion review segment.


That's a funny concept of professional review. If you pick Roger Ebert, one of the greatest film reviewer's I know of, he always got personal and opinionated. The point of a review of an art form is not to be a technichal analysis first and foremost, be it of plot or production values but also to discuss it's ideas. Disregarding the ideas that a work entertains is impossible since those also happen to paint the way the story develops. If I am to use terminology from semiotics, you cannot analyze form without considering its content. One does not exist without the other and you could argue that the very essence of art is to express some sort of idea through the some sort of medium. One cannot read, say, Trigun without pondering about its vision on altruism and pacifism much like one cannot watch The Triumph of the Will while ignoring its concepts of nation, race and order. If you do that, you risk simply internalizing ideas that may be rather... questionable.
And it just happens that this series is explicitly about human relationships. Given that, one cannot help but ponder about how the series conceptualize those relationships, what it considers ideal and what it considers innapropriate. From that standpoint I must say that I find Mr. Becket's thoughts to be relevant, yes, albeit possibly hasty. If a series about how humans interact with one another behaves as if the one adequate way for that is through heterossexual marriage, even if it makes sense in context, then that series ought to be called out on that. Wether we can say that it does so or not is another point, however.
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Alternative Ice



Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:25 pm Reply with quote
Squidslinger wrote:
Hiroki not Takuya wrote:
I for one would welcome more discussion of the shows' actual story/plot rather than picking them apart for homosexual themes or lack thereof or whether the reviewer is "right" or not.


Thank you!

This is just ridiculous! All because the reviewer can't analyze a story properly without going off on an opinion tangent. You don't do that in professional reviews. You look at the world lore and analyze from that. Where the plot holes are, where it does the story right or wrong in relation to that. Save your personal comments for the final review of the series in a special opinion review segment.


I'm sure the reviewer will start analyzing this show's plot as soon as it starts to have one.
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Scherzo



Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 149
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:10 am Reply with quote
James_Beckett wrote:
Scherzo wrote:
James_Beckett wrote:


This is a very valid point. My big worry, though is how the show would frame those deviations from traditional heterosexuality; I could see the show having Ikuno filling the role of the Tragic Gay character who is essentially punished for her homosexuality, and Mitsuru's lack of interest in anyone bit himself isn't painting a flattering picture of people that aren't necessarily interested in sex.

But yore right, there's still a lot of time left for DARLING to explore those ideas in a more nuance and unexpected way; I certainly hope it does!


I think its complicated by the Love Polygon that snakes it's way out from Hiro. Obviously he's going to end up with 02, but how Ichigo, Goro and Ikuno will play out is still definitely up in the air. The issue as you said though is that it doesn't seem like whatever feelings Ikuno may have will be requited. I can't see this as saying that homosexuals are incomplete beings though, what with Not!Kaworu appearing a few episodes back, so I wonder if we'll get a spotlight episode on Ikuno in the near future. As for Mitsuru, I think it goes beyond just being an egotistical prick; he was pretty checked out of the whole 'battle of the sexes' thing in a way that makes me thinks it's important.

There were a couple of interesting things that came up that I was surprised you didn't mention. A smaller one was the beat with Ichigo and Goro, where Goro gets a bit of coldfeet to how affecionate he was to her last episode, while Ichigo still fixates on Hiro and 02. But I think what was probably more interesting was how Nana chides Hiro for not being able to 'rein 02 in'. I think that calls into question like the surface level explanation of their relationship, that his role is to 'break a wild horse' which is creepy in the way that a lot of Manic Pixy Dream Girl stuff is. I hope whatever they're doing with 02 continues to develop next episode, because I don't want her deal to just be a generic tragic backstory revealed in the 11th Hour.


I usually don't comment on plot details if I feel like they're redundant to past epusodes' material, or if they don't add much to what's going on in the episode, which is how I felt about most of the non-Zorome material in this episode. The Zero Two material is simply foreshadowing future stuff, I I thought that the Ichigo/Goro beats were mostly just reminding the audience of what went down last week: Goro confessed, but Ichigo still doesn't know how to feel. It was a good moment, though, for sure.


I guess why I was inclined to give it credit was because it acknowledged character beats that happened in standalone episodes. I always sort of worry in these sorts of shows that character development that occurs in 'Limelight' or otherwise standalone episodes will be ignored when the plot kicks into gear, but that doesn't seem entirely to be the case.

I'm still a bit miffed that there was no acknowledgement of the physicality of Goro's attraction to Ichigo in their spotlight episode though; it sort of reinforces the idea that arousal is an automatic response in males (and that conversely women are more pure), and on top of that it just seems a bit, for lack of a better term, dishonest to ignore that aspect. I dunno if it's fair to harp too much on Zorome's description of his affection for Miku as he's still a confused kid after all, but 'she's annoying but physically cute so I want to protect her' rang a bit... I dunno if 'problematic' is the right term, but if it doesn't dig further than that I feel it's a little icky.

I think it should be said the reason I harp on these things is because the show very clearly is about sexuality, relationships, and identity. I know the lot of the things that are harped on are just commonly accepted anime tropes, but when a work focuses in on those sorts of topics, I don't think it's unfair to treat them more critically.
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