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EP. REVIEW: JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond Is Unbreakable


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NeverConvex
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:04 pm Reply with quote
PenGirl wrote:
For me, Part 3 is way more light-hearted than Part 4, because everything, aside from DIO's and Vanilla Ice fights, is a "big funny fight" where the protagonists got to joke around fighting Stands.


I agree with that; for me, the series took a nosedive in part 3. When I call the current arc light-hearted or whimsical, I'm primarily thinking of the tone set by parts 1 and 2. In part, this is because the introduction of Stands in parts 3 & 4 as a plot device hasn't really worked for me; I find the distance it creates between the users and their fights makes them feel a lot less visceral, a bit like watching two people play a violent variant of chess instead've a tense, direct confrontation between a hero and irredeemable evil. Other contributing factors are the slice-of-life emphasis in part 4 and the increasing emphasis in both parts 3 and 4 on rotating through a new villain of the week with each episode. Both of those choices cause me to feel less engaged emotionally with the show, since it doesn't feel like each week's mini-plot really matters in the grand scheme of the show (because there no longer is much of a grand scheme, I guess).

I always found parts 1 and 2 over-the-top, but in the same spirit as Beowulf - a dark epic about a battle between titans, completely absurd but enjoyable exactly for that macabre, self-serious absurdity, if you were willing to buy into it - and I really liked that about them. Parts 3 and 4, by contrast, feel to me a lot more like a more violent retelling of Power Rangers.
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Snakebit1995



Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:22 pm Reply with quote
Okay to answer the question about Papa Kira. His Stand is Atom Heart Father (shortened to just Heart Father in the localizations)

The Stand's skill is bound to his soul and works on the myth that taking a picture steals your soul. By taking a picture his soul can exist in the picture, even if he's dead. We've seen in the past that Stands and users with strong will can keep going even after death (Anubis).

The Stand's power is to bind a soul to a photo, so even after he's dead his soul stays living in photos. We also know ghosts exist anyway as evidence with Reimi and her dog.

To Quote the Jojo Wiki
Quote:
Ability

A Picture's Worth a Thousand Words: Atom Heart Father is bound to Yoshihiro's soul, and in turn lets him bind himself to photographs. He can manipulate items that are in the depicted area, even if hidden from view (e.g. a knife inside a drawer), and prevent depicted people from leaving that area. It even prevents people from entering the area that is depicted; if someone tries to, he is teleported to the other side of the area. Even if Yoshihiro ends up being the only thing depicted, he can still extend portions of himself or his clothing out of the picture to move around. The major weakness of this Stand is that Yoshihiro is bound to the last photograph of him that was taken, meaning someone can save themselves from his power by photographing him with their own images excluded.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Wow, people actually talking about the episode (25) for once instead of what's next.

Her husband was awfully buff for a layabout. Must've been secretly doing isometrics on the couch.

Kira's nail fetish probably explains his hand fetish, rather than the reverse. With just the hand, not only can't the object of his lust gainsay him on anything, but her nails don't grow, so she can never become more powerful than he sees himself (pre-Stand).

They should've taken a picture of Papa flying away. He'd still have the sky above as a limit, but he couldn't get outside the horizontal scope of the picture frame. Of course, planes would freak right out when they teleported across that airspace. Small price to pay. Very Happy
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Snakebit1995



Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:12 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:


They should've taken a picture of Papa flying away. He'd still have the sky above as a limit, but he couldn't get outside the horizontal scope of the picture frame. Of course, planes would freak right out when they teleported across that airspace. Small price to pay. Very Happy


Jotaro broke the camera after he took the second picture to cut crop himself and Josuke out. They had no way to take a picture of him flying away.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:41 pm Reply with quote
Oops, you're right. Embarassed
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YoodiHoshi



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:54 pm Reply with quote
tophg wrote:
But how convenient that Kira managed to find someone with exactly the same build as him, to the point that wife couldnt see the difference post-shower, heh. Wasn't it just the face that was replaced?

Kira deliberately picked someone who had a similar build to him, and Shinobu hadn't seen Kosaku naked in a very long time

And, am I the only one who likes that both SC & DiU give off a Saturday-morning-cartoon vibe (but with more suspense and gore)?
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anddo



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:32 pm Reply with quote
Kosaku Kira is cute I love him
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Revolutionary



Joined: 27 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:15 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
PenGirl wrote:
For me, Part 3 is way more light-hearted than Part 4, because everything, aside from DIO's and Vanilla Ice fights, is a "big funny fight" where the protagonists got to joke around fighting Stands.


I agree with that; for me, the series took a nosedive in part 3. When I call the current arc light-hearted or whimsical, I'm primarily thinking of the tone set by parts 1 and 2. In part, this is because the introduction of Stands in parts 3 & 4 as a plot device hasn't really worked for me; I find the distance it creates between the users and their fights makes them feel a lot less visceral, a bit like watching two people play a violent variant of chess instead've a tense, direct confrontation between a hero and irredeemable evil. Other contributing factors are the slice-of-life emphasis in part 4 and the increasing emphasis in both parts 3 and 4 on rotating through a new villain of the week with each episode. Both of those choices cause me to feel less engaged emotionally with the show, since it doesn't feel like each week's mini-plot really matters in the grand scheme of the show (because there no longer is much of a grand scheme, I guess).

I always found parts 1 and 2 over-the-top, but in the same spirit as Beowulf - a dark epic about a battle between titans, completely absurd but enjoyable exactly for that macabre, self-serious absurdity, if you were willing to buy into it - and I really liked that about them. Parts 3 and 4, by contrast, feel to me a lot more like a more violent retelling of Power Rangers.


I can't argue with you at all about the episodic, formulaic structure of the Stardust Crusaders and Diamond is Unbreakable.

It was a HUGE disappointment with me for SC. I loved the 2012 series so much. To run into the episodic SC with the very cliche Shonen set number of underlings to defeat before reaching the big bad, it took me back, and made me wonder why Stardust Crusaders is so popular.

Still even with that disappointment, I kept coming for more. The franchise has a 'charm' that has not left. I don't like it quite as much as the first two parts, but it's still a very fun series with plenty of tenseness that I don't get much of watching anything else, even if it is contained.

With that said, DiU has been on a roll lately, fitting more into a focused story like the first two parts. I've really enjoyed it. ...Still, Kira's new identity and particularly this last episode ending with his father escaping and promising to create more Stand users more than hints at a future of SC-like formulaic stepping stone enemy mini-arcs and that is disappointing. Nevertheless, it is Jojo's, it will be entertaining.
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gedata



Joined: 04 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:02 pm Reply with quote
Snakebit1995 wrote:
Gina Szanboti wrote:


They should've taken a picture of Papa flying away. He'd still have the sky above as a limit, but he couldn't get outside the horizontal scope of the picture frame. Of course, planes would freak right out when they teleported across that airspace. Small price to pay. Very Happy


Jotaro broke the camera after he took the second picture to cut crop himself and Josuke out. They had no way to take a picture of him flying away.


It would be a cinch for Josuke to repair the camera, but by then Kira's old man would be long gone.
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CycloneJoker



Joined: 18 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:39 pm Reply with quote
PenGirl wrote:

People think Part 4 is "light-hearted" because it happens on a town? I find it to be more terrifying than anything, because brings a sense of "false safety". In fact, Kira is almost a Seinen villain in a shounen series.


It's my opinion that what people find so 'light-hearted' about Part 4 is that, unlike Parts 3, 5 and to a lesser degree 6, is that the Stand users in Morioh are just regular people, with the odd exception like Angelo and Kira, many of whom don't want to fight and have non-violent abilities.

On the other hand, Part 3 features deadly enemy Stand users who are trained killers working in a tight knit organisation for a sadistic leader. I can understand where people are coming from after seeing fights like The Hanged Man, Seth, Vanilla Ice and DIO himself, and then making the change to Part 4 and seeing Tonio, Aya and Tamami and thinking it's more light-hearted. The tension is just a lot more hidden in Part 4 as opposed to the constant action of Part 3.

I agree that the relatively more isolated setting of Morioh gives a sense of false security too. Jotaro had almost the entirety of the African and Asian continents to move around, whereas Part 4 is essentially the equivalent to a 'bottle' by comparison. In fact, Morioh is just as much a character in itself as Josuke.


Last edited by CycloneJoker on Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NeverConvex
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:10 pm Reply with quote
For clarity's sake, CycloneJoker, I didn't write what you quoted there. It looks like you deleted the wrong person-flag from your double quote bubbles.

The 'regular person' phenomenon is probably another contributing factor to my sense of ennui about part 4. That's a good point.

I think part 4 being confined to a small town relates to what I've argued in that it scales back the stakes (if we're always in Morioh, only Morioh ever really appears to be at risk, and the rest of the world may as well be fine), but I don't think it has much to do with my lack of interest in the protagonists' fights, the missing sense of danger and tension, etc. I think Morioh could feel very dark; it could even excel at bringing to life my fear for our heroes' lives. It just hasn't hit those notes tonally very well for me, largely because of the other factors I pointed to a few posts ago.
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:36 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
I think part 4 being confined to a small town relates to what I've argued in that it scales back the stakes (if we're always in Morioh, only Morioh ever really appears to be at risk, and the rest of the world may as well be fine), but I don't think it has much to do with my lack of interest in the protagonists' fights, the missing sense of danger and tension, etc. I think Morioh could feel very dark; it could even excel at bringing to life my fear for our heroes' lives. It just hasn't hit those notes tonally very well for me, largely because of the other factors I pointed to a few posts ago.


In a story, what matters more than the scale of the threat is the emotional stakes the protagonist has in the conflict. For instance, the fate of the world is at stake in Moonraker, whereas in Rear Window, the only thing at stake is the protagonist himself, and everyone else is safe. Yet Rear Window is near-universally considered the better movie because you care more about Jeff in Rear Window than about James Bond in Moonraker.

If you're not enjoying Part 4, I'll bet the reason behind it is something other than the scale.
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CycloneJoker



Joined: 18 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:37 pm Reply with quote
My bad. It was a different person who also quoted you. I edited my last post to fix it.

But yeah, I can see why having Morioh as the only setting might make it seem like the stakes are lower, especially after two main antagonists whose aims were literally world domination (Cars and Dio).

Rather than Morioh dialling it back, I prefer to look at it as tightening the focus. Having one small setting makes everything feel more blocked in and claustrophobic, and changing the nature of the risk from a world ending threat to a more personal one, especially since, due to the appearance of ghosts in this Part, we get to meet our villain's victims face to face.

I think this is why I prefer Part 4 to the likes of Parts 3 and 5. In Part 4, Kira could be anywhere and, as we've seen several times, actually crossed paths with the likes of Josuke before his identity was even known to the group. It's like being in a confined space with a dangerous animal that could attack at any time. On the other hand, Parts 3 and 5 are more like road trips across Africa and Italy respectively to fight a powerful Big Bad, stopping occasionally to take out the villain of the week. JoJo never really recovers from that imo, but at the very least, Part 4 feels a lot more diverse in the way battles are fought than other parts, which fall into more traditional Shonen tropes.
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NeverConvex
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:28 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
In a story, what matters more than the scale of the threat is the emotional stakes the protagonist has in the conflict. For instance, the fate of the world is at stake in Moonraker, whereas in Rear Window, the only thing at stake is the protagonist himself, and everyone else is safe. Yet Rear Window is near-universally considered the better movie because you care more about Jeff in Rear Window than about James Bond in Moonraker.

If you're not enjoying Part 4, I'll bet the reason behind it is something other than the scale.


While I think this is true of many shows, I don't think the protagonist's emotional stakes are all that important in a show like Jojo, at least not from the direction in which I've traditionally consumed it. I've never really thought of the characters in this show as people; they're melodramatic caricatures in form and action, and the stakes typically mirrored that. And I liked it that way; the entirely-too-serious absurdity is a big part of what I loved about parts 1 and 2.

CycloneJoker:

No worries, I hadn't taken offense, just wanted to clarify.

I've seen several people in the thread remark that they think a smaller setting generates a feeling of claustrophobia, and I think that can be the case, but I don't think that tone's been achieved in part 4 of Jojo. I haven't felt that they're trapped in a terrifyingly small reality so much as they just seem to be in a town with some unusual misadventures and the occasional bizarre fight. Given how common that response has been, maybe I'm reacting differently to part 4 from many folks, but for me the cavalcade of non-threatening one-off characters has made part 4 feel more like "Meet our zany cast of town characters in this new slice-of-life take on Jojo!" and less "Fear for Jojo et al's lives as they struggle to survive in the dangerously close confines of terror-town Morioh".
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:32 am Reply with quote
I see. It sounds like you prefer JoJo's Bizarre Adventure to be some particular thing, and that Diamond Is Unbreakable is not.

Part 4 is a lot more liked in the Anglosphere than in Japan, at least relative to the other parts. The Japanese are largely in love with Part 3 but don't care much about Part 4, whereas fans in English-speaking countries are more likely to prefer Part 4 over Part 3. I'm curious as to why, though I'm sure the basis is the radically different premise Part 4 has from Part 3.

If you want my two cents, while I enjoyed Part 3 (I bought the manga set from Viz and read through the 16 volumes over three days), I felt like it was too villain-of-the-week in its approach. Jotaro and his gang would travel across the world and fight what felt like a queue of incoming enemies, and it got repetitive after enough times. In Part 4, each new character is given some sort of backstory or introduction of them as people, which allows them to be more than just characters for the heroes to fight. You don't have those scowling cackling mustache-twirling villains in Part 4, which is what I like about it. (Maybe except for Angelo, but he was also given a backstory.) The result is that Morioh feels very fleshed out as a location.
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