Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - DEATH DECAY CHAOS
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kamanashi
 Posts: 65 |
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Still gonna miss them though. Gonna make sure I get all their releases before their licenses run out for their current titles. |
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Miitan
Posts: 117 Location: Gensokyo, UK |
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I'm probably in the minority, but I just don't see why everyone is so excited about streaming.
If we take Crunchyroll, you get to watch 480p anime on your PC (net connection permitting) for free with adverts in the middle? Is this meant to be appealing? The animation companies will get approximately $0.00 (for those blocking ads) to $0.05 for each view. (If someone has actual figures, please advise) Oh wait, you can pay £4.99 for 720p (of series that are encoded in 720p) copies of the shows! But you still have to be at your PC with a net connection to watch them. And if your subscription expires, you're back to 480p. Series license expires? No watching for you! Licensors probably get a one-off payment, but you watch all you want. I just don't see how this can be sustainable without continuing to make the Japanese pay full price for their shows while the rest of the world acts as the smug freeloader. It's also not as if I can watch a streaming series and say "Oh, I love this show! I want it on DVD/BD!", as they can in Japan, because most of them are licensed for streaming only. Maybe I just believe in wanting to *shock* reward people for services provided or something, rather than thumbing my nose at them and letting some other sucker pick up the bill. You also get no special features, no animated shorts, no Clean OP/EDs, nothing. This may be a case of YMMV though. Edit: Number 7 who didn't think Cowboy Bebop was all that. I did buy it though... |
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asimpson2006
 Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
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Well now CR can be used on other devices such as Roku, Boxee, and I think some smartphones can use them, with the exception of the first two things I listed I can watch stuff on CR when I am on the road. Sure there is not all the bells and whistles that physical media has but for some of the stuff that I have watched on CR, I can tell you I was glad that I watched it on there and not blind bought and watched. I can tell you right now I felt a lot better watch Chu-Bra on CR that I would have if it got a physical release in R1, blind bought it and watched it that way. Sure some stuff is not coming over, but at least I get legal way to watch something without having resort to fansubs. It is YMMV for a lot of people. I was not crazy about streaming at first, but I have opened up to it lately. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Two years ago maybe $0.02 per view, in the US. With the rise in streaming ad rates, at least in the US, maybe $0.05 for each view. Crunchyroll would basically cover royalties and bandwidth costs, as self funding advertising for the subscriptions, but the rights owners get paid. At $0.05 per view, obviously you'd need 500,000 US views of an episode with a production cost of $110,000 to $250,000 generate $25,000 in royalties. Streaming ad views may not be at those levels for the run of the mill show, but they're growing, and where that growth stops is anyone's guess. And, of course, those ad rates are going up over time, as ad money is comes into the market faster than the individual streaming views available to advertise on, and as ad rates rise, the royalties paid per view will rise, so the views needed for a given rights income will drop.
Licensors get a one-off Minimum Guaranteed royalty payment, but of course each view is tallied and earns a royalty, and if the royalties earned exceeds the MG, the licensee pays the royalty balance over the MG as residual royalty payments. (Not everyone pays for the 720p streams ~ some people pay for the ad-free streams.) Now, if the minimum annual subscription fee is $50, and over half of that goes to rights fees, that's over $6/season/subscriber. 50,000 subscribers is $300,000 total rights income per season, enough to cover the production cost of one or two episodes. 500,000 subscribers would be $3m total rights income per season, enough to cover the production budget of one series.
The point is to maintain the flow of overseas rights income. If its a Japanese entertainment industry, half or more of the production budget should be expected to come from Japan ~ the key is to find ways to maintain the 20% of so international rights income which allows a larger number of productions to take place
Of course, most members of the Japanese audience can't do that either, since they can't afford the disks. At least with streaming, the producers get royalties, where the after midnight anime series on television are more likely to be a cost for the distributors, with their ads for their disks paying to put the series on the air.
Streaming vs physical ownership makes it out as if they are alternatives. But its not like fewer series are going to be getting overseas licenses because some people are watching on royalty-generating streams instead of on royalty-free bootlegs. Rather the opposite ~ more are going to be getting overseas licenses than would otherwise be the case, if the licensors have multiple streams of income with which to cover the cost of the Minimum Guarantee, subtitle, and mastering. And the audience at the streaming end of the market will also be more likely to purchase physical media than a bootleg audience will, since they can be directly marketed to at the streaming site, which is not a viable option at bootleg sites, and the streaming site can make demographic breakdowns available, which is not possible with bootleg distribution. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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LOL! 2012 called and said you need to update your information on how streaming advertising works.
No, it's not, and that's the point. This model is to infuriate to the point you'll pay for the subscription to remove the annoyance. Remember: these sites are still being run by people whose minds are stuck in the 1990s. To them: "ad them until they cave". This model has never worked, yet people still believe it will. Most subscribers pay because they believe in the site and the ads are irrelevant. Hulu+ is a perfect example of this. People are paying for a subscription for the privilege of streaming with ads. It's a shame most people are looking at this from only the "Japanese" side of things, but think about it from the consumer's side: What's more lucrative: paying $8/mo to stream content you want or paying a cable bill over $100 for content you can't control? The choice is obvious. There's a great many people who are streaming services who aren't paying a cable bill. For the record, this is what terrifies Hulu and it's why they've been stuck to increase their own services. It's absolutely stupid, but this is how these idiots controlling content think.
LOL! 2012 said you need to update your information too. My wireless laptop sits below my 46" HDTV and I haven't used its screen since setting my TV up as the primary monitor. The wireless allows the streaming without cable and all I needed was an HDMI line from the laptop to the TV, and there are even wireless components for this. About 18 months ago, I removed cable from this TV (though my wife still watches it) and I've not missed it once. With internet streaming, I have never had an issue with quality. Every so often, there will be bumps where the video stream will cut out or not load properly, but a refresh usually fixes this. Anyone claiming otherwise are only making excuses to pay their cable bill rather than streaming. Sucks to be them. |
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jlaking
 Posts: 224 |
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Teletoon hardly played any anime, YTV was the driving force for anime up here in Canada. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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There's been such a big change since 2011? this article cites $21-$30 CPM for premier content, $11 to $20 for mid tier content. Assuming five ads per episode, $15~$25 CPM, that's $0.075~$0.150 ad revenue per episode view. Two adds OP, Two ads at a scene cut before the eyecatch, one ad at a scene cut after the eyecatch ~ that seems like what I've seen on Hulu. Assuming that subtitling is funded by subscriptions, or Video on Demand, or a sunk cost of production for physical release, why is $0.05 rights income off by an order of magnitude?
Its meant to generate some ~ not a lot, but some ~ royalty income and pay for bandwidth. Its the opportunity to have a free stream without being a freeloader on the Japanese industry (it freeload on the subtitles funded by the subscribers, but AFAIC, that's OK). While some like to believe in the White Knight theory, "why did you subscriber" in the subscriber forum often includes ad-free as a reason. |
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tsunayakuin
Posts: 91 |
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So the anime industry in the US is going through hell and on the 24th, [let's leave politics and death threats towards others out of this] for allowing SOPA and PIPA to take effect leaving me with only Bleach and unfortunately Black & White and Metal Fight Beyblade to watch since I can't easily use my pc to watch Crunchyroll or Funi streams and even if I could they don't have every show I want to watch from JP's new anime season or most older shows I want to see so my life pretty much ends this year.
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DangerMouse
Posts: 3984 |
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This. Still going to miss them though for their bigger days. Main thing I'm anxious about is how Gundam is going to be handled especially for the big, lengthy main TV series going forward after their comment about Unicorn since there's no way most of us could handle the import pricing per ep for something that (atleast Unicorn is only 6 eps and an OVA not a TV series) and I hope the new Gundams will keep getting dubs.
I do agree with this, as huge Gundam fan I'm anxious to see how they are going to handle this, atleast for the new stuff, since I've lost a lot of hope we might still see some of the backlog of shows Bandai at least talked about trying to release "eventually". |
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Sippin Coffee
 Posts: 19 |
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I do agree with this, as huge Gundam fan I'm anxious to see how they are going to handle this, atleast for the new stuff, since I've lost a lot of hope we might still see some of the backlog of shows Bandai at least talked about trying to release "eventually".[/quote]
It would be a shame if this means the end of a Gundam Ocean dub. I know I've read many strong opinions about Ocean dubs, but for me, they have become synonymous with Gundam. |
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luffypirate
 Posts: 3187 |
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I find it funny how this poster uses the loaner word "eyecatch" as apposed to the English "bumper" to describe the outro/intro in anime...yet no one has berated him for choosing so. Shouldn't he catch the same hell as the one poster who prefers to use "cour" instead of "season"? I mean, it's only fair right? No offense to you agila. Just trying to make a point. Last edited by luffypirate on Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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It helps that eyecatch is in fracking English and doesn't sound as extremely pretentious as "cour". And "bumper" is nothing like as common and obvious a term as "season" ~ I expect you could ask an eight year old and be informed that there are four seasons in a year ~ its not a industry-insider term like "bumper". Though taking your work for it that it is called a bumper, I'm fine with that term too. The question is not what its called, but why in the hell they can't find it when they are looking for a spot to put the ads. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2238 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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Just so you know, both CR and Hulu (and youtube I think, theoretically) have the ability to place the commercials wherever you want. I know that part of the data that the translator submits to CR is in fact the commercial times. For some of Hulu's streams I think that's more a factor of US TV programs usually having 4 commercial breaks instead of the 3 in Japan, so they wedge an extra one in which causes issues. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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... my brain must turn off for the lead-off ads, since I didn't even count them, but anyway for, eg, Last Exile: Fam on Hulu, its three ad breaks during the programming itself, one at the normal OP ad break, then one placed earlier than the eyecatch, then one placed later than the eyecatch. That could be anywhere from five to eight ads, depending on whether one or two ads are in each in-program ad break. I've assumed that they did not place them at the conventional Japanese broadcast break times because of the drop off rate between the end of the episode and the ED after the ED ad break. Personally I'd rather have the ads at the eyecatch even if its two 30-second ads and a fifteen second ad in that spot. At least its not like cable news, where the ad breaks are so long that they break in halfway through the ad break to tease the next story. |
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DangerMouse
Posts: 3984 |
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Yeah. |
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