Forum - View topic

ANNCast - ClannADCast

shiranehito wrote:

I watched AIR (movie and series) and never played the VN, and I really prefer the movie than the TV series.

That's rather disappointing to hear, since the movie is just a really generic romance and doesn't really do anything particularly well. But I guess if you really like generic romance and were unable to see and/or appreciate the beauty of the story and themes portrayed in the TV series then it could be your preference.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned the kickstarter for the game here at all even though this is a discussion about the kyoani adaptation of the game.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sekaiproject/clannad-official-english-release

I forgot that I wanted to mention this: there's a pretty interesting (if highly speculative and rather florid) essay on Clannad called Clannad TV Explained: A Foolproof Plan to Happiness (trigger warning: weird HTML that doesn't work on mobile devices) that offers a grand unifying theory for how the town magic conspires to fix everything. Among its more interesting ideas is the claim that Fuuko is deeply connected to the Illusionary World through her Coma Ghost Girl powers, and is in fact the sheep-like animal that The Girl and the Junk Robot encounter in ep 2 of After Story.

I see Zac and Hope are still on the moral-argument-as-art-critique platform. That you had a problem with the Furukawa's not condemning Okazaki's abandonment of Ushio is because you didn't buy into the idea that they were empathizing with Tomoya and felt protective of Ushio enough to the point where they understood that condemning Tomoya immediately after Nagisa's death would have served literally no purpose, not because it was unrealistic within the setting of the show. Likely due to the fact that neither of you cared about Tomoya's relationship with his Father, which was elaborated on extensively before Nagisa's death (rendering the "I didn't care because I was too distracted by moral outrage" argument pretty questionable), because "not enough time was spent on it".

Nagisa's parents understand the entirety of Tomoya's character, his past and his present, by the time Nagisa dies. That and their treasuring of Ushio combined is what leads them to refraining from condemning, not because the setting changes arbitrarily to serve the whims of Tomoya.

Hope's comment in the beginning of the podcast that "what you would typically imagine is an otaku in his basement with his hug pillows" (which is a pretty venomous and illogical stereotype to casually drop) and Zac's constant reiteration of his personal mental representation of Clannad as being an archetype of everything wrong with "moe" is pretty telling of the actual motivations for a lot of the criticisms presented against the "writing" of the show.

Not that Clannad is even close to a coherent story. The point being it's not the platonic form of everything Zac enjoys morally condemning in anime that it's constantly implied to be in this podcast. The criticisms against the depth of the side characters and plot holes are certainly valid, but none of those things are really the point of the show: side characters are on the side for a reason. Though their lack of depth certainly shows in the kind of hackneyed melodrama and necessary plot holes of the other routes.

That said, the benevolence of the Furukawas is kind of miraculous to the point where it may require some suspension of disbelief. Not in that it was absurd that they didn't condemn Okazaki, but that they seemed not to grieve even half as much as he did, despite the fact that they sacrificed much of their lives for Nagisa. Perhaps having Ushio around was supposed to explain that, as a kind of coping mechanism for them. To me the most powerful scene in the show is when Sanae finally cries about Nagisa's death for that reason.


Also it doesn't sound like Zac or Hope actually understand what it's like to be as young as Ushio was and have a fractured relationship with a parent. Resentment requires the idea of responsibility: all Ushio knew and was told about Tomoya by the Furukawas was that Okazaki was her Father and was the one person that she could always rely on and trust. To expect her to be afraid or mad seems to ignore the point of even writing that into the show.

I am Excited/kinda nervous for the FMA Brotherhood show to be honest and that probably makes me sound pretty crappy 'cause I know that both Zac and Hopes or really anyone's opinions shows are not their opinions of people that enjoy those shows. I'm just glad that it is not a discussion of 2003 vs Brotherhood because I feel like that talk has been done to death at this point, everyone knows which side they are on or yada yada. They are very different shows and aside from like 50% of the same cast. I feel like it is a much more interesting to take both shows on their own maters and talk about them apart from each other.

But brotherhood probably is maybe my favourite anime of all time so maybe it is unfair for me to say something like that.

I already know Zac and Hope prefer the 2003 series and while I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they purposely won't let that affect their opinions on Brotherhood I feel it is impossible not to in some degree.

Perhaps if the guest is a fan of Brotherhood I will reconsider.


I didn't listen to the whole podcast so I did not hear if they said who will do the Brotherhood podcast with them.

Maidenoftheredhand wrote:

I already know Zac and Hope prefer the 2003 series and while I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they purposely won't let that affect their opinions on Brotherhood I feel it is impossible not to in some degree. Perhaps if the guest is a fan of Brotherhood I will reconsider. I didn't listen to the whole podcast so I did not hear if they said who will do the Brotherhood podcast with them.

I haven't actually seen Brotherhood. Just the first few episodes. I really do love the 2003 show but I'm going to watch Brotherhood understanding that it's a direct adaptation of the manga and not expect it to be the 2003 series.

The FMA:B show will happen in late January to give me time to watch it, and we haven't decided who will fill the third chair yet.

At some point we need to do a show Hope and I wildly disagree on, though!