Forum - View topicNEWS: Department of Justice Files Suit Over Comics Scan Site
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TsukasaElkKite
 Posts: 3974 |
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He's gonna get PWNT.
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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I was not aware of the DoJ level of involvment in non-US or international license law. Is there some history of the DoJ charging someone for violating international copyright law? This is fascinating if this was the case I am surprised the DoJ has not acted sooner. |
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Ichigo77
 Posts: 389 Location: California |
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This is good, maybe now more people will go out and buy manga and put more money back into the business. A few weeks ago while I was at the comic book store I sat down to sort out my stuff and put the newest 7 One Piece graphic novels next to me and this kid who had to be 16 was like "you know if you go online you can read those for free" I than told him how that is illegal and he was shocked. I was explaining to him how its against the law and no money is exchanged and he had never heard that before. Even when I was explaing how it was illegal he seemed confused. Its as if Middle school and High school kids can't grasp the fact that money is the source of manga and anime. A huge fan base is important but that can only go so far. Look at Heroes, that was the most pirated show this year and it still got canceled. 1,000,000 fans downloading One Piece isn't going to pay Eiichiro Oda's bills.
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Ashen Phoenix
 Posts: 2918 |
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Indeed. I'd miss reading a handful of unlicensed series, and getting art references from those that are available legally, I won't lie, but ultimately taking down these sites will be better for the industry as a whole, so I know I can get over the loss. |
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Onizuka666
Posts: 266 Location: U.K |
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This action against HTML Comics guy is no surprise at all, as the U.S is all about litigation as a past time, and that site is U.S based and using U.S product.
The likelihood of the same happening to One Manga is slim to none. Reasons for this are: 1: Manga are niche foreign media, which by and large, the U.S market, beyond comics fans no one cares about. If the U.S isn't losing all the money, they don't care. On top of that, manga is rival product for comic customers. 2: The japanese studios, creators etc, care less about scans, because manga still sells on their shores like gangbusters. They are more likely to chase fans doing illegal stuff on their own shores, especially with anime, than a costly international legal drama for manga. If they cared that much, scans would have disappeared from the net ages ago. Also, take the Simmons/Tite Kubo case as a very good example. You didn't see Tite Kubo calling up lawyers, even if Simmons was in the wrong. On the contrary, Tite was happy that someone outside of japan, as famous as Simmons knew of and was influenced by his work. You can put a price on something like that, and I think the whole thing was handled very well between them. We all know if this was a U.S creator, the lawyers would be serving papers like shuriken. 3. Japanese manga still have to be purchased in order for scans to occur. Manga in japan are highly disposible, many like we might read and discard a daily newspaper. Also with the volume of manga released to date and beyond, its a hell of a job to chase scan groups on every title. 4: Like Arsenic said, One Manga is like the yellow pages. All it does is gather the scans from various sites into one place. To go after One Manga, all that will happen is that those yellow pages will get burnt, but do nothing to the actual scans groups, they list. Chasing all of them is a headache task in itself. 5: We fans have very rose tinted lenses. We all know that this western anime/manga industry was born of what many now call illegal piracy, so please don't sugar coat or forget that fact, with the self righteous fire and brimstone bs. We've all sinned for our fandom at some point online, and long before offline, with fansubs etc. If One Manga were a huge hub for works readily available in english, like HTML, there'd be more of a case for a take down. However, I'd say about 90% of the manga on it lists are unlicensed, on hiatus or out of print, so be careful with that brush. I'm for supporting the industry, but at times we've been screwed by it (Guyver, etc on eternal hiatus), as much as we've screwed it back (scans). 6: As for money that One Manga earns. like any site, such money goes into server costs, ISP bills etc. I seriously doubt the creator is languishing in a huge mansion somehwere, eight ferrari parked up outside, just by having this site. Be aware that many of the scan sites, that many scans come from on One Manga, don't have ads at all, and rely on donations or other means. Sacns are a pursuit born of passion than profit, IMO. 7: Even at One Manga, they make a point of advising the reader to buy and support the official product and its creator if the reader likes what they read. It might not mean much to some,but counts for something. If readers choose to ignore such advice, that's their good/bad choice at play. Overall, I still believe that scan sites, create more fans, of lesser known works especially, than they actually chase away. 8: Younger fans will grow up with scan sites (they will always be around in some form), but the truer, deeper connection that could get them to buy more, is more conversing with japanese creators of what they love, be it at cons, or even via the means of Youtube, Facebook or Twitter (if they can't travel to cons). Such connections could mean much more, like is done at most U.S comic cons, where creators are the stars, doing sketching for you etc. If say Tite Kubo was going to appear on Twitter, to chat to global fans etc on a said day, many fans would connect with such things, and thus build more respect for the creator and his/her work. The nature of the net, cuts off this kind of connection, as much as it can build it up. Things are beginning to change slowly though, as we are starting to see more artists appearing on You Tube, doing their work. 9: The final barrier, is that the japanese largely don't commit to learning english to this. So long as this barrier exists between fans and their creators, it can do possibly more damage than good, or maybe not. They could do much better with enlgish though. 10: Scans also appear in other languages besides english. There's a natural fear that many won't buy, but I think that's not going to happen enough to end the industry. For every U.S young pup manga fan that doesn't buy, others in various countries elsewhere will, myself included. Also put aside that large assumption that every scan read is a lost sales, as that's not the case at all. 11: Purchased or free, IMO, its always better for a work and artist/writer to be known and their work consumed, than forgotten altogether, especially if a work is of a foreign nature. Much media disappears into the ether every year, on and offline, never to be used again. This is already happening with many games, and anime/manga will be no different here, as time passes. Scans while questionable, still serve a valuable resource in this regard, one that many fear treading into, until a good enough rival and legal means arrives. That's all for now. Thanks for reading. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I'd say Onizuka666 you have an odd sense of history of the industry, as I think only ADV was the one that "grew up" and really bringing anime over was more in the hands of Macek and 4kids with Bandai, Funimation, Geneon, Viz, and Rightstuf forming to license the anime with ADV going legit for the same reason.
What part of never used fansubs to enter or continue one's fandom is hard to get? And your path for artists would have them stagnate to be honest with you. Edit: Reasearching further ADV was started by Ledford seeing My Neighbor Tortoro but when it started was licensing it's properties. It may have been an imported copy so the question of fansub or no is up for debate but Mr. Ledford would have had experience with Japanese running a Japanese video game and console import business. |
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Onizuka666
Posts: 266 Location: U.K |
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Not at all Red Hand, I know my anime history well enough thanks.
I'm not talking about official circle of licensors (I know ADV was born from such times), but of fans themselves, and in response to self righteous posts on here. Most who are at these high position in the western industry, began with those shows they saw early on, not knowing they were anime or via fan subs. Go and ask some of them, and they'll tell you how they go into anime, and I'd bet something questionable illegal, they dipped their toes in along the way. If they are guilty, we all are. I can admit to using fan subs, scans and them shaping me as a fan, while still buying, but many wouldn't be so honest, new fan or industry veteran. With that in mind, few should be pointing fingers of judgement at others, as we are all guilty. Are you saying that, calling for the head of One Manga, while happily enjoy the aged or latest torrented fan subs, isn't damn right hypocritical? Try running that one by a lawyer. That guilty can be small and buried, but its still a cross to carry. I'd rather carry mine, and know what I know of anime/manga, than not. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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I have not felt guilt in a long long long time. Now it is just another one of those funny tools used to keep society from falling into organized chaos.
We never know who would come out on top after the chaos so better to keep the shackles in place. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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It would be for violating US copyright law. Remember that copyrights of WTO and Berne convention signatories are valid in the US. Back before that was the case was why so many books were published in both London and New York, to get covered by both Berne and the Pan-American convention. There is clearly lots of infringement crossing into US territory. Is OneManga registered outside of US territory? I did a quick whois, but its not listed directly on the registry I checked. Last edited by agila61 on Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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The Berne Convention does not give the US DoJ reign to enforce US copyright law on works that originate in Japan and do not have a US licensor. The copy right law that is enforced is the one from the country of origin.
Reading Japan's copyright laws it still looks like they are focusing on punishing direct sales of pirated goods and downloaded goods that are used for commercial purposes. Free and private usage does not seem to be the aim of the Japan copyright law. That would be my take on it from reading translated legal documents. Of course I could be mistaken. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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For the DoJ, the complaint would come from a US company about the series that have a licensor. The fact that the original material originates elsewhere matters no more than if someone imports bootlegs of Manchester United jerseys and whichever US company has the rights complains. The fact that the site also aggregates unlicensed material is neither here nor there ... nor is the fact that much of the activity will be hands off aggregation and only some of it will be whatever behind the scenes bootleg uploading is required to maintain series lists. However, its probably more effective to use OneManga to do the legwork of finding the copyright violations and do a series of running stings on the sites they aggregate from under the pretense of a hands-off relationship. |
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ayashe
 Posts: 122 |
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Don't scare me like that. I don't care what happens to sites with American comics on them.
It's because of the American manga distribution companies and scanlator/hosting site haters like the people in this forum that's it's getting to the point that I will NEVER buy manga in the US. There are a few series that if I had the money (as in more than $0, I'm not even eating right now, so when people say they have no money take their word for it instead of criticizing them) I'd like to buy the first volume of just to see what the translation was like, and if it was acceptable, I'd buy the rest. But seeing this makes me never want to. If you think that taking sites like Mangafox down would help the industry and make people buy more manga, you're wrong. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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This is highly unlikely to be true. Viewership at these sites is a power law distribution, with the majority of views at a small minority of sites. The A-tier sites do not maintain that position if they are less effective at maintaining their series lists than their rivals, and there is only so much you can do with aggregation alone before you have to step in to ensure that the material is available to be aggregated. They all claim that they are just aggregators and they normally include a "buy the product when its available" advisory, but the top tier ones certainly do not take down the links to available work and replace them with links to where to obtain the material legally. You maintain a spot at the top of the heap by giving the browsing public what they want ... and what they want is all the manga they are looking for, at no cost to them beyond their browsing hardware and internet connection. |
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luffypirate
 Posts: 3187 |
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It sucks you might have to actually cough up the $10 to compare that translation now  Any sort of scanlation, be it Japanese or not, is trash and needs to be removed from the internet.
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Revolutionary
 Posts: 603 Location: New England |
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Well that isn't going to happen. And if the big manga "streaming" sites are taken down than these people will just find other ways. The people who care to support the industry will do it, irregardless of whether there is streaming or not, while the people that couldn't care less about supporting it won't either way anyway. Before manga scanlations are taken down I'd really like for them to start moving to legal online "streaming" and "simulcasts" (just using those words for lack of a better term.) for manga in the same way that they have done anime. They don't have to be for free, of course, in fact they probably shouldn't be. But I'd love to see "Simulcasts" for the manga. Sadly it wouldn't stop the pirating, though. Because as I said, if the will to support the industry isn't there, they won't do it no matter what. They'll find excuses. |
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