Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Maria the Virgin Witch
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jroa
Posts: 542 |
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It looks like I have written way more about this show elsewhere in the forum than I had honestly hoped to do today, but it's refreshing to read Gabriella's views on the subject since she always brings an unique perspective and has a far better way with words.
My own interpretations about Maria may vary, in various specific aspects, yet I feel at least some of us can agree about the final episode being a very satisfactory conclusion that speaks to the main themes of the series. Not everyone thinks that way and there were always other possible routes to more traditionally develop Maria as a character, fair enough, but I can say the series lived up to most of my expectations. |
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Hellwarden
Posts: 321 |
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I liked Maria as a series. I did.
I thought it was well made, and it's rare to see a complete story animated. That said, the main theme of love feels more than a bit hallow to me. It's more for personal viewpoints, but it keeps the show from being a classic to me. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1781 Location: South America |
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Great series overall. Very good animation, art style is a bit distinct from the usual and the execution is excellent overall. Also has nice philosophical dialogue/themes and it's very entertaining at the same time. It's pretty much better than most shows of the past 18 months.
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1781 Location: South America |
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Like Yuki Yuna is a Hero, I guess. |
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Animelover12313
Posts: 278 |
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Which is sad, because shows like these comes maybe once or twice a season but nobody watches it because it's not as hyped like the other overrated series. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18267 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Oh, I don't know that it got overshadowed as much as you guys might think. Amongst those of us who are not fans of Ikuhara and his works, I'm sure that I'm far from the only one who considered this the most-anticipated title of the season.
I was also pretty well satisfied with the conclusion; I especially liked the "what does everyone think of Maria" approach, and that the responses were definitely not all positive; I was actually a little concerned that what some suspected - i.e., that Maria would be made into some kind of saint or the equivalent - would happen, but the series instead took a more reasonable approach. It didn't make the Christian God (and by extension Michael) out to be unreasonable, either. That being said, I definitely didn't get the depth of meaning out of the final episode that Gabrielle apparently did. (But I never really "got" Utena or why it's considered a feminist work, either, so that's probably just me being dense on such things.) I appreciate it entirely for other things that it did. |
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Animelover12313
Posts: 278 |
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Maybe I'm just around a different circle of fans because for all I know, very little people knew that the show was even airing. Same thing can be said about Garo since 1/10 people I ask would tell that they know that it even exists. Yuri Kuma is also another example. Compare them to shows that were hyped this season such as Aldnoah.Zero 2, Tokyo Ghoul Root A, Assassination Classroom, Saenai, and Kancolle, the former shows deliver better to me.[/list]
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Rogueywon
Posts: 256 |
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I don't think it was overshadowed either. Sure, people were talking about it as a hidden gem at the start of its run, but you can only be widely discussed as a hidden gem for so long before the whole thing kind of negates itself. I think the show's problem might have been the reverse; that a very strong run of early episodes might have granted it a profile higher than a weak conclusion can really stand up to. I also didn't get much depth of meaning to the final episode. And I did "get" Utena (which, unlike Ikuhara's other works, is also an entertaining show). The final episode of Maria just got uncomfortable; like the author was self-projecting a little too strongly onto Maria and saying "I'm great, rules shouldn't apply to me". Ever been out for a drink after work and had one of those situations where a colleague has a couple too many and starts unexpectedly sharing stuff you'd frankly rather not have heard? Like that... |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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Well, Maria got a broadcast dub while Garo and Yatterman Night did not, so it was at least more popular than those two.
Not sure how I liked the series overall; I'm not completely convinced Maria learned anything (maybe that she doesn't have to go it alone?) She didn't learn that interfering with battles at critical moments can actually extend war and lead to more people hurt and killed in the long run. Or maybe that wasn't a point the show was trying to make to begin with? The show's take on philosophy and religion were a bit confusing to me. For example, I thought they were setting up Bernard to redeem himself through his philosophical revelations, but he stupidly attacked Michael and was turned into salt...so I guess not? His revelation that anything, including witches and their magic, can be used for good as long as it benefits people meant nothing? I thought they were going to expand upon it. I did like everyone having their say about Maria, and loved the touch that the Heavens would recognize her as a neighbor--"love one's neighbor as thy loves oneself" (wow, an actual Judeo-Christian saying!), so therefore Michael won't kill her. I thought it meant he won't take her power away, either, but I guess I was wrong about that. Maria and Joseph are adorable together, though, and Ezekiel choosing Maria as her mom was precious. I think Ezekiel's character arc was the brightest, most consistent thing in the series, and that certainly ended well. Just wish we could have seen a little epilogue with baby Ezekiel. |
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Eldritcho
 Posts: 260 |
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Man, do I ever know that experience... Personally, I wouldn't say the ending was that awkward, but something about it definitely felt off to me. Actually, since about episode 5 or 6, this whole show has felt a little "off" to me - not enough to make me not enjoy it, but enough to keep me from calling it great. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I already raised a lot of my thoughts on the finale/series in the other thread so I won't go back over those. However, I did want to respond to the idea of this being a great feminist work as indicated in Gabriella's review. I certainly understand why people are attracted to the show overall, even though I think it is only somewhat above-average. It has that "trying to be historically accurate" vibe to it that people like, and it strikes out against the Church, which is almost certainly a popular theme among anime fans. However, I also don't see the feminist significance.
If you think about it, all of the women in this show (except Maria) are portrayed as the equivalent of sex workers or women who are defined by their "sexual value." Even Maria is partially defined by sexual value, based on this whole virginity thing. That paradigm is never confronted or overturned by this show. Isn't it a little shallow for the show to throw out such themes and not attempt to seriously address them? Now, one could consider the idea that Maria and the witches go up against a patriarchal God/Michael and "win" a victory against them, thus earning respect. That could be a feminist theme. However, at the end of the day Maria is forced to be impregnated by God and we are told eventually he will take her powers away as a result, and all of the other witches appear to be going into hiding as Edwina said that they can't live openly like Maria because only Maria got the "protection" of this patriarchal God. So again, it seems like in the end the women are going back to a more repressed state and Maria won a personal victory only for herself. Lastly, I would ask if one still considered Maria's personal victory to be a feminist victory, would they still think that when this show's merchandise starts to come out featuring Maria on bodypillows and whatnot? (I think we all know that is coming.) Would such an act of "selling out" change one's perspective about the author's intent for her? |
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Hellwarden
Posts: 321 |
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One thing I was disappointed by was Bernard's death.
It's not to say he didn't deserve it, but Bernard was interesting in that he represented a dark version of Maria. While Maria ignores the rules of society at large due to her belief that in doing so, she helped everyone, Bernard ignores the rules of his religion in the belief that it'll bring him closer to god. After Maria gave him a theological verbal beatdown, Bernard seemingly, although perhaps not intentionally, became a threat to many heavenly figures by believing that they should focus entirely on the heavenly father. I wanted to see exactly what Bernard was planning. What was he writing about? What was his new plan? And then the show just kills him off. And in a way that's not entirely in character as far as I'm concerned. Bernard, other than his laughing mad moment, up to that point had been presented as calm and collected and not prone to lashing out physically. |
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Hameyadea
 Posts: 3679 |
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From the little research conducted, it would seem that the manga version of Junketsu no Maria ran for 25 chapters, and with each about 20-pages long, the total page count is relatively low.
Can someone who read the entire manga confirm whether or not this was a full adaptation? (Although Anime-Original Characters were added to the story). If so, it would be part of the small list of series that got full adaptation post-serialization. |
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Random 21
 Posts: 198 Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom |
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I'm in the same camp as Gabriella on the whole Feminist thing here. For starters I'd like to say that being sexual does not necessarily negate being feminist. A big thing that stood out to me in this show in particular is how it managed to be raunchy without being fanservicey. They had a lot of sexual humour yet because of the framing, it doesn't go overboard. I have a great respect for the show because of this.
But I'm guessing the main point people are talking about is, as ChibiKangaroo says, is how characters are defined by their sexual value. This is true, but I'd argue that this is necessary given the time period it's working in, these types of characters had to appear all things considered. But it's not like these characters are seen as weak and have only merit as sexual objects. The biggest character in this respect (besides Artemis) would be Lolotte, who is still presented as a strong character (LITERALLY). She doesn't have a dependence on men, she still works on her own terms and can easily hold her own. But really, the main character who makes this a feminist work is of course the main character, Maria. I think the patriarchal system that should be looked at with her is not the Church of the Heavens but the Church of the Earth. The characters of the Church of the Earth try to use and eventually subdue Maria in order to fulfil their own goals, even going so far as to use rape in an attempt to subdue her. Maria's ability to stick through all this, never giving in to the Church's desires and sticking to her own philosophy is what makes her such a strong feminist character for me |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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@Random 21
I agree that being sexual doesn't necessarily negate feminism, but it's the context of the sexuality that counts. In MtVW, women's sexuality is used for two things (aside from Maria, who i'll get to): (1) men's pleasure, and (2) money. Again, it is an allusion to prostitution. Now, if one finds prostitution particularly liberating in a feminist sense, then one could say that there is some significance there. Personally I'm not there. I think the history of prostitution has been that it has been a control mechanism for a patriarchal society to keep women repressed by limiting their roles in society and trying to force dependence on men, i.e. "the John." I do agree with you that the fanservice was fairly limited as far as pure raunchiness. That being said, there were plenty of opportunities for "male gaze," with Maria being the prime target of that with all the scenes showing her in various stages of nakedness and bathing/sleeping etc. You are right of course that the time period allowed for these depictions of female characters. However, I don't think there is anything particularly feminist about portraying repressed women in 14th/15th century society. In order for that to be truly feminist, I think there has to be some kind of demonstration of them actually overcoming or overthrowing patriarchal paradigms. However, the allusion I mentioned above is not overthrown. If anything, it is re-affirmed at the end of the show with the witches acknowledging that nothing has changed for anyone other than Maria. So, back to Maria. As you indicated, she does achieve a personal victory. However, I don't agree that it was a victory over the Earthly Church. They defeated her. She was saved from them by Edwina of course, but Maria hasn't defeated the Earthly Church. They are still in full power and all indication is that the Church characters shown thus far will continue to repress women (symbolized by the witches) just as they had in the past. That's why Edwina says they will have to hide from the Church and can't live free like Maria. They might not be able to keep attacking Maria, but that is a special "protection" she is getting from God. There's no indication that God will extend that beyond Maria and in fact the indication is that the exact opposite is true, so again I can't really say that such a narrow form of protection only for Maria is "feminist" in any kind of larger sense. Perhaps you could say she is a very minor inspirational figure for achieving her own happiness, but the show makes clear that she is an exception so I don't think there is a broad message there that would make this show compelling in that feminist respect. Then there is the question of Bernard which was brought up by Hellwarden. I think it is fascinating that his punishment comes not from the dastardly deeds he committed against Maria (and again, by extension, women) with the rape and other abuse. In fact, when Michael appears to him, he is asking for his opinion to judge Maria. A man who was committing such unspeakable acts against women is allowed to have an opinion to judge the woman who's rape he orchestrated? But at the end of the day, he is only struck down because he rejects Michael (and thus God) and tries to choke him. Then Gilbert is specifically shown burning whatever new teachings that Bernard was supposed to be coming forth with. As Hellwarden indicated, we never see what those teachings are. Personally, I was disappointed with the direction of Bernard as I thought he was diminished by showing him to be so crazy toward the end. Maybe if he hadn't been struck down and we saw what those teachings were, this could have added some significance to his interactions with Maria to give her impact more lasting effect. However, the show closed that off and all indications are that the Church continued with its same ways. |
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