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Coolest Character Tournament - Post-Mortem

(Granted, she has more personality, but I'm not at all convinced that helps her in this case.)

I strongly disliked [Lady Eboshi] at the beginning of the film, only to find myself admiring her, despite the decisions she made. What makes her such an amazing character is that, unlike Lelouche, she is not so egocentric. While every single Lelouches action was meant not to help others, but add up to his image and bring him personal gains, Lady Eboshi actually sacrifices a lot for the people she takes under her wings, without the constant "Me, me, me, I, me, my, oh, btw, have I mentioned how awesome I am?".

My usual procrastination aside, I was hoping to get around to voting after having more time to make up my own mind about the match itself...but it seems this particular point is one that really shouldn't be left unopposed so early in the game.

I apologize in advance to those who might be bored, bothered or otherwise inconvenienced by my ramblings but...a little more debate is clearly warranted.

Unicorn_Blade wrote:

I strongly disliked [Lady Eboshi] at the beginning of the film, only to find myself admiring her, despite the decisions she made. What makes her such an amazing character is that, unlike Lelouche, she is not so egocentric. While every single Lelouches action was meant not to help others, but add up to his image and bring him personal gains, Lady Eboshi actually sacrifices a lot for the people she takes under her wings, without the constant "Me, me, me, I, me, my, oh, btw, have I mentioned how awesome I am?".

I am not under the illusion of pretending to forcefully change your (or anyone else's) personal opinion here but this is simply inaccurate, considering both the actual events of the anime itself and their varying interpretations.

Lelouch is indeed selfish and has an overly high opinion of himself, this is true, but he is also perfectly capable of being selfless on multiple occasions. In fact, I would even say there is actually an internal tension between both of his characteristics here: sometimes they overlap, sometimes they take him in completely different directions. It's, in the end, not as clear-cut as it seems on the surface. Which, incidentally, is one of the reasons I find him cool.

Some examples of the above include:

a) In the first episode of the show, Lelouch goes out of his way to try to help the apparent victims of a car accident while bystanders prefer to take pictures and gossip. What personal benefit is he getting from this? Nothing, really.

Later on, even when his ambitions may also benefit, Lelouch doesn't always make the most effective and efficient choice from a purely selfish, cold-hearted perspective. In fact, you could argue he tends to make things more difficult for himself by not being truly emotionless.

b) Lelouch's personal motivations have a distinct duality: he wants to have his revenge against Britannia and his father, yes, but also to create a "kind world" for his sister. What Lelouch actually fears the most is dying without accomplishing this, not his own safety or security. A completely selfish person would place his own life above any such considerations and wouldn't want to do anything for anyone else.

The kind world for Nunnaly all in all turned out to be another idea that Lelouche kind of droppedsomewhere along the way to create a world working according to his and only his rules.

Throughout the two series there were a multiple solutions offered to create a kinder world, but since the ideas were not Lelouche's he went out of his way to destroy them- what happened to Euphie is the best example of it.

Besides, as the series progresses, most of Lelouches charisma comes not from himself but from his geass and brainwashing other people. He starts off as a cool character, but ends up as a complete opposite.

For most part of the series he pretends someone he is not, and he masks ugly actions with pretty words, betrays friends and becomes cause of death of many, humiliates people 'for their own good'.

spoiler[And he dies as he lived- without other people to be able to pass judgement upon him, an easy way out.]

The crocodile tears he shed every couple of episodes did not really convince me he had any sort of deeper interest in other people, as long as they served their purpose in his game.

All in all, for Lady Eboshi people were real people with feelings, for Lelouche they were object he could discart once they became useless. Uncool.

...I think I've mentioned before, but I don't find Kenshin to be very cool, sure there are other "won't kill anyone" characters, but I think Kenshin doesn't take it as seriously, it's like he has limited self interest in surviving if he absolutely must kill someone, I really wasn't impressed by him and I find him to be overrated. And Lady Oscar is a classic, I still need to either see the series or read the manga, but I feel confident voting for her over Kenshin based on reputation alone...

Please read Kenshin's nomination carefully. It is actually for Kenshin Himura as Battousai The Manslayer. Like the Count of Monte Cristo or Lucy, it's his one aspect of the dual personality that has been nominated. Or, more accurately in this case, Kenshin prior to the Meiji Restoration.