Forum - View topicCoolest Character Tournament - Post-Mortem
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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First Friday vote of the tournament!
Group A-17 Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kambei Shimada, Samurai 7 Choosing: Kambei Because Both excellent choices, but I'm going with Kambei's unwavering calm and collected nature over Balalaika's sometimes vicious fervor. Kambei handles even the most dire situations with the same levelheadedness. In the opening scene, upon determining that his side is inevitably doomed, he decides to plunge straight into the heart of the enemy army to buy his allies some time to escape. spoiler[He faces his own execution, but instead waits until the blade is about to fall before escaping and initiating an assassination attempt.] He is a source of guidance to the other samurai and the villagers and remains a steadfast pillar of support for them throughout the story. Group A-18 Izumi Curtis, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise vs. Eikichi Onizuka, GTO Choosing: Izumi Because As much as it pains me to vote against Onizuka so early, he is a little too much of a goofball for my pick in this tournament against such a stalwart opponent. While Eikichi easily stands with the best of them when he means to, at other times, he's a pretty big dork. In addition, Izumi has an edge in badassery by doing everything she does while enduring a persistent internal injury. Group A-19 Michiko Malandro , Michiko to Hatchin vs. Roy Mustang, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise Choosing: Michiko Because Spastic Minnow makes a compelling argument. Group A-20 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Guts, Berserk Choosing: Simon Because While Guts may be more intimidating, I don't find much coolness in his rather primal savagery. While Simon may start off scrawny and awkward, once he develops the type of indomitable attitude as Kamina, he transcends those faults. Group A-21 Teresa, Claymore vs. Claire Stanfield, Baccano! Choosing: Claire Because In fighting prowess, the two characters are both nigh untouchable powerhouses: Teresa dispatching the four next best Claymores without breaking a sweat; Claire's methods tend to be more stealthy, but ruthlessly efficient. Both exude sex appeal. The thing is, Teresa gets killed. Rather embarrassingly. While it is incredibly admirable that Teresa forsakes the unforgiving and pitiless rules of the Organization to take care of the young orphan Clare, in doing so, she loses just a little of her unyieldingly harsh personality and critically misreads a foe. Pity itself is not uncool, but when the consequences of that pity end your life and ruin the one person who cares about you (and vice versa), it nudges you down just a tad. Vino, for his part, does not lose his edge upon falling in love. Besides which, he is able to successfully court a girl who is immensely suspicious of anyone but her own father. Group A-22 Brandon/Beyond the Grave, Gungrave vs. Black Jack, Black Jack Choosing: Brandon Because Given the lack of comments on this match, it appears to be the least compelling one this week. I'm going for Brandon in light of the number of people who found Black Jack rather bland. Group A-23 Kenpachi Zaraki, Bleach vs. Roronoa Zoro, One Piece Choosing: Zoro Because Kenpachi has his immense raw power going for him, but not much else. Some people might count his blood-lust, but I'm not to keen on that. Zoro has motivation for fighting beyond just the battle itself. Group A-24 Hei, Darker Than BLACK vs. Mugen, Samurai Champloo Choosing: Mugen Because For pretty much the same reason I couldn't vote for Hei last round. Glug, glug. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Dorcas_Aurelia, you do remember that this is the badarse group, right? We are not [supposed to be] judging these characters on how purely cool they are, but on how cool they are in the context of being a badarse. I'm referring specifically to your arguments of Simon versus Guts, and Zoro versus Kenpachi.
Having a motivation to fight beyond the battle itself is not inherently cooler or more badarse. After all, Kenpachi lives to fight, because fighting is his life. He will even stretch out a fight just to get the maximum enjoyment out of it, no matter how much damage he is taking. Isn't that pretty badarse to you? And Guts is a brawler, a sledgehammer in humanoid form, not a thinker or a charmer or anything like that. This guy is little else but badarse, so you'd think that would make him an almost unbeatable opponent at least until the merger with the other groups. |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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While some of the groups are separated out between general cool and badasses, I don't believe there is any rule stating that we can judge cool characters on badassery and vice-versa. Plus, there's two groups that are mixed, and I don't think it's personally fair to judge characters solely on cool or badaresness since some characters just got placed in a mixed group and some in a pure group based on the luck of the draw. Then again, I know some will follow your voting stance and that's their choice. There's a certain level of vagueness to the criteria and anything that makes these tournaments more interesting is a good thing. Heck, I probably agree with your stance more than Dorcas_Aurelia, a badass should primarily be judged on merits in that arena, but a serious lack of cool should be considered at least a minor weakness. A generally cool character who's a pansy would fall into the same category. I already think it's clear that most of us do vote based on criteria, but each person's criteria differs and there's nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly fine to try sell your criteria of what this tournament is looking for while I try sell mine. I always found comments played a strong role in determining who wins, and I don't see this one being any different, and that's a good thing. |
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Olliff
Posts: 550 |
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Looks like I wasn't consistent last round in my score, but I really can't complain, can I?
Group A-17 Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kambei Shimada, Samurai 7 Choosing: Kambei Because I won't be displeased if Balalaika wins, but Kambei has a grace that she lacks and he's equally fierce when the situation calls for it. Group A-18 Izumi Curtis, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise vs. Eikichi Onizuka, GTO Choosing: Izumi Because Hate to vote against a character that I like, but the fact that Onizuka often the butt of jokes and portrayed just often as a fool as a badass doesn't do him in favor. Izumi isn't a weak choice either. Group A-19 Michiko Malandro , Michiko to Hatchin vs. Roy Mustang, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise Choosing: Michiko Because Not at all impressed with Mustang, and Spastic Minnow makes a compelling argument for Michiko. Mustang already has a massive popularity advantage and he's still struggling, what does tell you about his merits? Group A-20 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Guts, Berserk Choosing: Guts Because Guts is too strong of an example of pure and raw badass to be denied by a character like Simon that shows weakness and doubt even after he's so called transformation. Also Simon's early moments scream coward, weak and wuss and even if those traits are temporary, there existence is still a weakness. Group A-21 Teresa, Claymore vs. Claire Stanfield, Baccano! Choosing: Claire Because Both characters are beasts in battle, but Claire is much straightforward and fierce in his battling methods, and Teresa relies more on subtlety and stealth. Also don't want to get into spoilers too much but Teresa most climatic moments are also very embarrassing for her, and that's not at all cool in my book. Group A-22 Brandon/Beyond the Grave, Gungrave vs. Black Jack, Black Jack Choosing: Black Jack Because Calling Black Jack bland is unfair; he's type of badassery is just very different than norm. The situations surrounding his actions and he's unflinching resolve are where his badass moments come from. He may not be full of attitude, or is an arrogantly confident, but that's hardly a requirement. I also felt that Brandon on the other hand is generic and bland is the sense that I have seen his archetype a few dozen times. Group A-23 Kenpachi Zaraki, Bleach vs. Roronoa Zoro, One Piece Choosing: Kenpachi Because Kenpachi has his immense raw power, ruthlessness and pure basassness down to an art. Not a supremely deep character, but what we know about him, his personality, and beliefs only reinforces he's bad ass combat moves. Zoro isn't a pushover, but I thought he was more style that raw vengeance like Kenpachi, I also felt that his character was intense. Group A-24 Hei, Darker Than BLACK vs. Mugen, Samurai Champloo Choosing: Mugen Because Mugen will be hard to best, and he has the personality, action, and flare down, and he completely the sometimes sedate, and dreary Hei. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Except that the tournament as a whole is titled "Coolest Character Tournament", and if we are forbidden from taken the eponymous aspect into significant account when weighing the choices, the purpose of this tournament is a lie. I also believe that badassery is a specific subset of cool, and thus the characters are all ultimately answerable to the same elements for the purpose of this tournament. Remember:
If you really want me to provide badass-specific arguments for two specific and highly competitive matches rather than general cool-considered ones, even though I applied a consistent decision making rubric to all my choices, fine: Kenpachi might be physically stronger, but that's because Tite wrote him as practically invincible. It's boring. Zoro actually has to work at his fights to achieve victory, and that makes him far more badass. Persevering against towering odds inspires respect, brushing off inferior opponents with bored contempt is lame. For Simon versus Guts, Simon (as a wimpy 14-year old) literally blasts a hole in a man about 5 times his own size with a only drill-shaped key and his own will power. A man who has years, possibly centuries, of battle experience, beats down Simon's mech barehanded, and is unquestionably the most powerful person on Earth. And Simon takes him out in essentially one hit. Guts beats up men weaker than him thanks to years of training. Also, Simon bends space/time to his will. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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This tournament may indeed be called "Coolest Character", but that is ignoring why it is called as it is. It was supposed to be a badarse tournament, but got amalgamated under a more general (and acceptable) banner. Being a badarse is a specific subset of being cool, a specific coolness. Therefore the way I see it, in a badarse-only group general coolness is but a minor consideration to the particular flavour of coolness that is being a badarse. As long as a character is a badarse they are at least somewhat cool, so lets judge them by the criteria that got them into the tournament, shall we?
Which is why I never wanted a badarse tournament in the first place except to get it out of the way. Waaay too subjective.
So let me get this straight. You mark Kenpachi for being too strong, and yet you mark Simon up for wearing plot armour so thick he can defeat a lord hundreds of year old with a single blow? Guts actually went through years of plausible training (such as using adult swords when he was a child, doing strength training every day, et cetera). He lost to Griffith, but through an absolutely punishing years-long training regime manages to surpass him. Simon on the other hand just believes in himself and magically gets the power to supersize his robot to ridiculous proportions and defeat his enemies. Wow, not exactly much tension there. Kenpachi has been doing little else but fighting for decades, only desires to fight the strong, and in one fight lets himself be stabbed in order to find an enemy who he can neither see nor hear. As for Zoro, I can't say too much about him since I haven't watched any of One Piece. But even Mad_Scientist's post does not contain anything more badarse than what I know Kenpachi has already done. Kenpachi doesn't just endure pain without comment, but - like Oh Dae-Su from Oldboy - the worse things get for Kenpachi the more he grins. It is that utterly badarse mindset - "screw the odds, this fight keeps on getting better and better" - that makes me roll my eyes in boredom when reading about what Zoro did and didn't do in the Thriller Bark arc. |
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DarkRoseFairy
Posts: 271 Location: Alberta, Canada |
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Group A-17
Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kambei Shimba, Samurai 7 Vote For Balalaika Balalaika is one of the most interesting characters in Black Lagoon and she left a deep impression on me. I have watched only the first half of Samurai 7, from what I saw Kambei didn’t impress me; I find him kind of boring and not interesting at all. Group A-18 Izumi Curtis, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise vs. Eikichi Onizuka, GTO Vote For Izumi Curtis Group A-19 Michiko Malandro , Michiko to Hatchin vs. Roy Mustang, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise Vote For Michiko Malandro Based on reading Spastic Minnow arguments, Michiko get my vote. Group A-20 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Guts, Berserk Vote For Guts Group A-21 Teresa, Claymore vs. Claire Stanfield, Baccano! Vote For Teresa Group A-22 Brandon/Beyond the Grave, Gungrave vs. Black Jack, Black Jack Vote For Brandon/Beyond the Grave I don’t really care either way who wins, but if I have to choose it Brandon since I have more of a cool vibe from him then Black Jack. Group A-23 Kenpachi Zaraki, Bleach vs. Roronoa Zoro, One Piece Vote For Kenpachi Zaraki Group A-24 Hei, Darker Than BLACK vs. Mugen, Samurai Champloo[/quote] Vote For Mugen I like Hei, but Mugen is more bad-ass and cooler for me. |
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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Looks like we might have the first real upset of the tournament!
Group A-17 Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kambei Shimada, Samurai 7 Choosing: Balalaika Because Always thought that Kambei's character exuded boringness along with his unwavering calmness. His character is stale, and good ol' Fry Face is anything, but that. Group A-18 Izumi Curtis, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise vs. Eikichi Onizuka, GTO Choosing: Izumi Because Any character that can be described as an awkward loser, but with a few badass moments shouldn't be here. Izumi by default. Group A-19 Michiko Malandro , Michiko to Hatchin vs. Roy Mustang, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise Choosing: Michiko Because Vote Change Group A-20 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Guts, Berserk Choosing: Guts Because I think if you look at it holistically, Simon shows more weakness than Guts. Group A-21 Teresa, Claymore vs. Claire Stanfield, Baccano! Choosing: Claire Because I always thought Teresa came off as overly righteous and harsh, and her exit from the series was anything, but graceful. It made here look like a fool, and it also seemed that she was acting out of character. Group A-22 Brandon/Beyond the Grave, Gungrave vs. Black Jack, Black Jack Choosing: Black Jack Because Performing perfect surgery during dangerous situations time after time with the utmost perfection, Black Jack is an unique and novel pick. I rather take novelty and uniqueness over a character that's been labeled as generic. Group A-23 Kenpachi Zaraki, Bleach vs. Roronoa Zoro, One Piece Choosing: Kenpachi Because Kenpachi breathes and exhale badassdom, and the way he stick with his simple principles is cool. Doesn't hurt that he is an unbeatable killing machine in battle. Zoro isn't bad either, but his appearance was the tiebreaker for me; call it silly but Kenpachi with his maniacal grin just looks more like a badass than Zoro. Group A-24 Hei, Darker Than BLACK vs. Mugen, Samurai Champloo Choosing: Mugen Because He was meant for this tournament in his ability to straddle cool and badass, while having style, presence, and the personality to match. Last edited by mow123 on Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Neither should a frustrated mother.
He does have a few generic traits, but he's not a generic character. Tell me just how many quiet protagonists out there gave up their lives and even death for a trickster of a friend? Or how many from the quiet range stayed on screen for long enough? The definition of generic in this tournament seems very twisted. How exactly is Mugen so similar to Spike? Mugen is a wild beast, and Spike is a domestic cat whose owner is called Julia.
Except that he's not unbeatable. As we all know Ichigo beat him during the Soul Society arc. After that he never really did any decent amount of fighting, and lately he's mostly there as an unbeatable strawman, who just wants to see whether or not his enemy manages to cut him up. He's more like a tough talkative chunk of beef these days. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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No, it was a compromise Key proposed between people wanting a badass tournament and those who thought that was too exclusive to certain genres. I voiced my complaint in the tournament selection phase about the problems of merging two disparate voting criteria only in the final rounds, and so applying constant criteria throughout the tournament is how I am attempting to assuage that perceived problem. Besides, how do you then justify the crossover characters who are labeled as badass and general cool, or a badass against a general-cool character in the mixed divisions.
How the flying **** is "coolest" any less subjective than "badass"?
No, I marked him down for being "nigh invincible". Simon gets the everloving crap kicked out of him before he beats Genome. Kenpachi straight up ignores damage. |
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~~EpiC~~
 Posts: 243 |
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I totally agree with this. Having seen both series, I don't see how Claire is beating Teresa. I also have no idea why Simon is putting up a fight against Guts. And not to mention the ending of Gurren Laggan, Simon was anything but cool. Also, how the heck is Kambei cooler than Balalaika? He's boring and really forgettable. |
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Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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I already completely forgot all about Balalaika, although I have seen the series two weeks ago or so. I cant really see why people find her such a strong contestant, and have not really seen any argument in her favour that would convince me so far- she is quite a generic character, not even the coolest in the series. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18267 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I'm not crazy about how that match is going (especially how much it's spreading apart - Claire is now winning handily), but at least now there are comparative arguments. And while I don't dispute that the way Teresa goes out is a negative (I figured that would come back to bite her at some point, just not this early), I felt that was sufficiently balanced out by other factors and the fact that Claire is, without question, insane. I am interested to see how far he goes before that becomes an issue against him; my guess is that it will become a real problem starting in the fourth round, but we'll see. With as much support as he's getting right now, he could be a dark horse in this tournament. Last edited by Key on Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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Group A-17
Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kambei Shimba, Samurai 7 My vote goes to: Balalaika. Group A-18 Izumi Curtis, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise vs. Eikichi Onizuka, GTO My vote goes to: Izumi Curtis. Group A-19 Michiko Malandro , Michiko to Hatchin vs. Roy Mustang, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise My vote goes to: Roy Mustang. Group A-20 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Guts, Berserk What amazes about Simon is his character development. From a lowly tunnel digger to a hero of mythic status, his personality matches these changes as well. Though he does have a bit of a dark moment, remembering the meaning of the words of someone dear to him, we then witness the "rebirth" of Simon. After the epic battle on a galactic scale, we have the epilogue. By far, Simon's part is fitting for him. Making the decision to have him the aimless wanderer was excellent and it is exactly how you are supposed to have a mythic hero leave the story. Simon helped create a new universe for everyone to live in without fear. However, as peaceful as it is, he can not live in this new world. He bows out gracefully and leaves it the new generation of humans. This style of ending is an homage to old movies of past. After the big fight, they can not live in the new world that they helped create. Instead, they take their leave and wander off never to be seen again. My vote goes to: Simon. Group A-21 Teresa, Claymore vs. Claire Stanfield, Baccano! My vote goes to: Claire Stanfield. Group A-22 Brandon/Beyond the Grave, Gungrave vs. Black Jack, Black Jack My vote goes to: Black Jack. Group A-23 Kenpachi Zaraki, Bleach vs. Roronoa Zoro, One Piece My vote goes to: Roronoa Zoro. Group A-24 Hei, Darker Than BLACK vs. Mugen, Samurai Champloo My vote goes to: Mugen. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Group A-17
Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. Kambei Shimba, Samurai 7 Pick: Balalaika - would be nice to see the picture but I'll go with Balalaika. Group A-18 Izumi Curtis, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise vs. Eikichi Onizuka, GTO Pick: Izumi Curtis - tough one for me, but Izumi just had such a great impression on me and with as tough the two brothers are, she still has the upper hand even when taking them both on. Group A-19 Michiko Malandro , Michiko to Hatchin vs. Roy Mustang, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise Pick: Roy Mustang Group A-20 Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Guts, Berserk Pick: GATSU! Group A-21 Teresa, Claymore vs. Claire Stanfield, Baccano! Pick: Teresa - the way her abilities are explained seem really cool to me and she seems really powerful. I don't think Claire could stand up to her in a 1-on-1 match. Unless he cheated with some real powerful weapon, or something. Group A-22 Brandon/Beyond the Grave, Gungrave vs. Black Jack, Black Jack Pick: Black Jack - There's a price for his services but he isn't entirely fixated on the financial aspect. Villains often find the cure isn't exactly what they bargained for. Black Jack always seems to be in control of the situation when he is faced with patients who are corrupt but their life is on the line. Group A-23 Kenpachi Zaraki, Bleach vs. Roronoa Zoro, One Piece Pick: Roronoa Zoro - every time someone votes for Kenpachi, God kills a pirate. Umm... well, anyway I just wanted to vote for the 3 sword dude. Group A-24 Hei, Darker Than BLACK vs. Mugen, Samurai Champloo Pick: Mugen - he's not Spike light, Mugen shines in his own way with his fighting skills, wit and temperament. |
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