Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Overlord II
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Calsolum
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For anyone who's curious spoiler[As far as i know Demiurge never reveals who it was that they were not allowed to kill but it was implied to be Climb due to an agreement she made with him. Probably.] Also regarding Evileye, i don't believe her pesticide spell is the sole reason their side was winning but it did help immensely. Before she realized how effective it was, she was already confident enough that she was stronger than entoma. Then Demiurge showed up and she lost her shit. I'm assuming she has some sort of 'scouter' in her mask or a skill that lets her gage the magic ability of opponents at a glance. Also, I have little sympathy for the very 'evil' aligned members of nazarick, especially entoma. |
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MiloTheFirst
Posts: 429 |
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I don't think the person demiurge mentioned could be Ainz since he said they weren't allowed "to kill", if the person in question was their master he would have forbid them "to attack" at all since that much would already have been disrespectful, not to mention that as far as he is concerned (and was already established in the first season) the only one there who could seriously pose a threat to him would be shaltear and if he had considered that a possibility he wouldn't have brought her along in the first place.
I had wondered who that person was when I red the novel. the exact same question pops up again in the big battle of Volume 9. it is ambiguous who that would be could it be Gazef since he could be considered an acquaintance of Ainz who had strategic value in Nazaric's public relationships? or was it perhaps Marquis Raven since he is Momon's Employer in his current mission, and it would reflect bad on him to not have been able to protect the person who had hired him. The hologram seemed to have ankle length boots and the only named kingdom's character that wears them is Climb, but what benefit could demiurge obtain by sparing him? the only logical conclusion is that Renner requested it, but that is assuming that 1) she is acquainted to demiurge (maybe he met after he asked permission to look into something then flew off last episode) and 2) he deemed her of enough value to negotiate with her at all, any information of value she could have had (such as the last 8 fingers' location he was informed of in this episode which in turn is the one Renner's brother told her about last episode) he could have easily gotten by mind controlling her with his racial skills. maybe he thought she would be most useful as a free-willed agent? thought I am aware that spoiler[it was confirmed in later arcs that at some point Renner became Nazaric's Agent, it isn't confirmed at what point in time they made contact with her] so what I proposed is still just a theory |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Considering the finale of Season 1, no way is the "person not to be killed" Ainz/Momonga. Shalltear only fought him at all because she was mind controlled and most of Nazarick tried to keep him from fighting HER due to the value they place on him. If Demiurge thought ANYONE would even attack Ainz to begin with I fully expect he'd kill them outright. (as was considered with Sebas, who might have been simply "betraying" (not directly threatening) Nazarick and Ainz)
My guess on the person is the leader of Blue Rose. The leg looked feminine to me, so I think it is her (since clearly the others are "fair game"). It also SEEMS worth mentioning that Demiurge specifically said he was TRYING to not kill the Blue Rose members that he got, but he miscalculated their durability. Re: Entoma... I'll say this, she did TRY to not fight the Blue Rose members. She explicitly asked Gargaran to walk away, altho I understand why she said she couldn't. But if Entoma had her preference she never would have fought them in the first place. From what little we know, the people she killed prior to that point deserved it just as much as the people Sebas killed. One last point regarding the guardians, considering that Ainz oal Gown was a "Monster Character" guild (and I think they got some "racism" against their characters for it) it's interesting to ponder the reverse with regards to how they see the world. Since Momonga is a human player (underneath) he has one perspective, but it's interesting to consider how the other characters may be received and how it affects their own world views. |
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Chrono1000
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zrnzle500
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I mean Entoma was eating human flesh when they came upon her, which they specifically cited as the reason for fighting her, which seems warranted to me, even if they share a common enemy. If eating human flesh is merely moderate to you, even by Nazarick standards, you are free to believe that, but I think it is more than reasonable to characterize her as ‘evil’ aligned |
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Nordhmmer
Posts: 1028 |
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@Chrono1000
Entoma was joyfully snacking on a human's arm when Gagaran comes upon her. As Gagaran said being one of the highest ranked ranked adventurers of the Kingdom,she cannot allow a man-eating monster roam free. (As the anime is typical light(and a mediocre one) novel synopsis,spoiler[I'll gently chuckle at the thought of Entoma being moderate among the beings of Nazarick.] ) |
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Chrono1000
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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OK, first off, she killed members of Eight Fingers who are involved in both slavery and sex trafficing, both of which are debatably WORSE than killing. (and while I'm not in favor of eating human remains, does it really matter after the person is dead?) One issue with this series as we get deeper into the story is these kind of situations where we no longer despise the opponent. Even though they were humans, it was fine seeing Sunlight Scripture and Clementine get their comeuppance. In comparison, it seems brutal to watch the mains wipe out a bunch of "previously fairly peaceful" Lizardmen and now fighting Blue Rose. As for Entoma being "moderate", I'd actually agree. Naberal Gamma was mostly kept in check by Ainz, but based only on what we've seen: Solution Epsilon EXPLICITLY went looking for victims to "eat" (Entoma was more "use the remains") Shalltear gleefully chased down and murdered numerous people and apparently often gets into a "blood frenzy" And prevailing theory is that Demiurge runs a "farm" to (presumably) skin people for making parchments On the other side, Sebas is clearly more sympathetic to humans and Cocyutus seems to be at least sympathetic to "weaker" beings. IMO, right now Entoma seems to fall in with the larger sections of Nazarick in being just generally dismissive of "weaker" creatures. Yeah, she'll eat humans, but she's not explicitly going out of her way to do it. We know Albedo looks down on humans as trash, but she generally seems to not "care" one way or the other about them, Aura & Mare seem similar considering that the one just casually basically tortured the woman as he took her from the mansion. |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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^I’m just saying that it wasn’t unreasonable for Gagaran to find her to be a threat that she is obligated not to turn a blind eye on, even if they are both against a group that is worse than Nazarick.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Like I said initially, I TOTALLY get how they end up fighting. I'm just saying that Entoma DID try to avoid it (which is more than the more "extreme" members of Nazarick would have done). Gagarin is trying to be heroic, and again, I think that's also why sections like this get tough, because you don't necessarily want either side to lose. |
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MiloTheFirst
Posts: 429 |
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You guys need to take into consideration each character's perspective and context. let's remember Gagaran had just arrived to the mansion. she didn't have any way of knowing what had just happened in there, leave alone to what faction Entoma belongs nor to whom the Arm she is eating belongs. this was also the 8th location that was meant to be attacked by whoever finished their task first. as far as she knew, Entoma was most likely to be Hilda's guardian dog and the arm was most likely from another remember of the raid force who had arrived before her. regardless she just couldn't leave a man eating beast roam free.
from Entoma's perspective as to why she didn't want to face Gagaran, let's remember her orders, they were suppoused to be working undercover and she was supposed to be done with that place. fighting Gagaran would have hold her from following her next instructions. Also she said herself at the beginning of the fight that she acknowledged Gagaran to be strong (not stronger than herself, but still). why would she risk her health in a fight that would bring her no benefit whatsoever? that said. this what the character cards from the LN say about her alignments: Entoma: Karma Negative 100: Neutral ~ Evil. which would indeed make her a moderate for reference. Demiurge who is implied to run human concentration camps has a karma of negative 500. Sebas is suppoused to have positive 300, and Cocytus positive 50 Also I wouldnt say Cocytus is sympathetic of weaker creatures, he got attached to the lizard folk not because of pity but because he was sympathetic of their warrior spirit |
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Nordhmmer
Posts: 1028 |
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Demiurge made a point of stating "We must show Ainz-sama that we are of service to him through this mission",this after Sebas' supposed betrayal. Mare & Entoma were running behind schedule,Entoma worried about failing the mission was in a hurry,otherwise.... |
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Nordhmmer
Posts: 1028 |
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Maruyama bases the character alignments pretty much on D&D rules and...Neutral evil is a dangerous alignment because it represents pure evil without honor and without variation. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11451 |
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Whether Gagarin would have looked the other way had she known whose side Entoma was on is unknown (unless the source materials, which I don't care about, say otherwise).
When she found out Entoma was eating an arm, the first thing Gagarin says is, "I didn't think that Eight Fingers kept any monsters." She clearly believed Entoma was with Eight Fingers, and would have attacked her whether she was eating an arm or not, since that's what she came there to do. Entoma being a monster was just another good reason to attack. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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While interesting, I don't think that the character sheets are a good basis of judgement for this particular point of consideration. They're a good data point (Sebas' viewpoint obviously being represented) but they're flawed at best. A quick Google search shows Momonga with an alignment of "Extremely Evil" and we know for fact that he's more sympathetic to humans than that would imply. Also, apparently it DOESN'T follow the D&D system because it's more of a "sliding scale" of evil, with "Neutral Evil" being closer to "True Neutral" than "Extremely Evil". If we consider how "bad" Nazarick gets (the lizard priest Crusch is now considered a part of Nazarick and is "Neutral") Entoma does in fact rate as one of the more "moderate" members of the tomb. At least based on this chart (and also her actions IMO): http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-osJR9NsVgSQ/VjTjTzWNiGI/AAAAAAAABDY/02YBwSyjgGA/s1600/1446257011943.jpg It's worth noting from the chart that, "by the numbers" spoiler[Sebas is less "good" than Naberal Gamma and Solution Epsilon are "evil" and there's several members of Nazarick that are WORSE (more evil) than those 2), so in that sense "only somewhat evil" is in fact MODERATE for Nazarick] (put this under spoiler just in case people don't wanna dig into the graph details) |
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