Forum - View topicREVIEW: Gantz GN 2
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Brack
 Posts: 283 Location: UK |
|
|||
|
I love Gantz, but I totally agree the series lacks a clear direction. And Hiroya Oku does seem like he's making it up as he goes along, particularly once you get to the sections of the story the anime didn't cover.
However, that's what I love about it. Particularly once Oku starts incorporating that aspect of his writing into the plot itself. |
||||
|
||||
scriver058
 Posts: 127 Location: NY |
|
|||
Winning argument sir! And you'd have a very good point, if it weren't for the fact that I bought the first 2 $13 volumes of the manga, along with a boatload of other manga and anime DVD's. I mean, I think I practically supported the anime industry from 2000 to about 2005 or so with my several purchases of between $100 and $200. So please, don't accuse me of being some kid who downloads and reads stuff off the internet... while I do do that, I then proceed to purchase the ones I really like, as i've done with Gantz, Berserk, Death Note and whatever else is in my library. I mean, maybe the right thing to do is to buy ALL the stuff I read on the internet, but then again I could just go to Barnes & Noble and read pretty much the same stuff for free there as well, couldn't I? Now just so you can't claim that i'm just blowing hot air, I dug some pics of my collection out of my photobucket: 
Rest assured that while some of the series (manga or anime) don't appear complete, I do have them completed and/or up to date at the current time. Series not shown which I recently purchased: complete Noein, 1st box set of Blood+, first 2 box sets of Bleach, complete Rurouni Kenshin (both the anime and manga) and all released volumes of Dragon Head and Hellsing thus far, along with other manga I have. I also have about 30+ OVA's and anime movies. So tell me, who the f*ck are you to question my investment or my love of anime and manga? I always try to buy everything I read or watch, and I constantly tell my friends who are rampant downloaders to at least buy the shows they really like. I even got a couple of them to do so. As for the assertion that everyone likes free stuff, I read a few chapters of a couple of manga online that I didn't like (Naruto and Claymore being 2 that come to mind, despite my Kakashi avatar) and never read again. There's a reason Gantz is 20 volumes and counting, and it's not something the reviewer can determine in just it's first 2 volumes. I totally understand that people downloading stuff off the net and not paying for it severely hurts the anime/manga industry, but don't use that as an excuse to whine about people not spending money on manga or whatever because I called out a shortsighted review for what it was. Once again, 2 volumes of any series is barely enough to decide whether the series is worthwhile, unless the series is just those 2 volumes or less. Next time, you or whoever does the reviews might wanna be a little more thorough. |
||||
|
||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||
Right and you're gettin' all worked up based on the idea that Carlo's review is a judgment of the entire series rather than just volume 2. I own something like the first 10 volumes of Gantz in Japanese and yeah, volume 2 is a lot of "what's going on?!" with really nothing else going for it or or any really super compelling reason to keep reading beyond pretty art and cool violence. I like the series but I agree with Carlo's review, vol. 2 was pretty weak. You can complain about every mid-volume review of something by saying "but it gets better! this writer isn't giving it enough of a chance!". The end of that argument is basically that we shouldn't ever do mid-volume reviews and only ever review completed series (usually this argument is extrapolated out to 'only ever review completed series from the perspective of someone who likes the show and forgives most of its flaws') which is a bad idea for a number of reasons. I would suggest you read the reviews a little closer and not put words into the critic's mouth or extrapolate the review out to some ridiculous place so you can argue against a point the author never made and wasn't trying to make. Last edited by Zac on Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
Machius
 Posts: 23 Location: Australia wishing I was back in Japan |
|
|||
As a person who reads scanlations but who also has a large collection of manga(both translated and original) I take offense to that. I read the scanlations to keep up with the manga because of the slow nature of the releases(I used to by the weekly/monthly magazines when I was in Japan but now i'm back in Australia it's not that simple), but of the series which I truly enjoy and follow I buy the actual tankobon in order to support the manga-ka, for the love of collecting and because physical media are more satisfying to read. If I was going to compare Gantz to any other series it would probably be with Claymore which has the same problem of a slow start(unfortunately necessary to get people acclimated to the world and concept) but which progressively gets better. Neither manga is a universal read which i'd suggest to everybody but both offer something which is different and will appeal to certain demographics. |
||||
|
||||
|
Zopelthe543
|
|
|||
As for this review I feel this guy was complaining way to much on the story and I wonder why everyone is agreeing with him. Whats so weak about the story? It's unique, grotesque, and absolutely provocative.Some people may not like it, but it's not a series for everyone. Sure Hiroya Oku's weakness in this manga is that he drags the fighting way to long like DBZ and sometimes worse even, but because of that flaw it doesn't mean the whole plot and story is crap. I believe he's just trying to add realism to the manga by making time a bit of a factor since he likes to stress that there's a time limit in each mission. Sure it sounds like total BS when your coughing money to see a volume that drags on a bit long, but what do you expect? this manga was aimed for the Japanese and down there manga is cheap. Also what irritates me the most about this review is how he criticizes about the art. It kinda pisses me off. If you think you can just simply step on his art because of how he does his work then why don't you make comics oh master of observing details? I just don't think people can justifiably criticize other peoples artwork when there not artist themselves. You try making comics as career and see how difficult it is. I'll agree that the art feels artificial and like a machine made it, but it's a solid style and what I mean by that is that it's easy to understand and is done professionally. There's nothing ground breaking about his work but it's not ugly and it is certainly is not generic like most manga art styles. I could rant more on this topic, but I don't want to be mistaken for some crazy fan-boy, so I'll strop here... for now. |
||||
dAngel
 Posts: 23 |
|
|||
The fact that the nature of the Gantz ball is kept a mystery throughout the series... none of the characters know exactly what's going on or why they are being forced to fight. Though that can be either a plus or a minus, depending. Personally I kind of liked that aspect...it had the feel of suddenly being dropped in the midst of a game, with the characters all struggling to survive impossible odds. Last edited by dAngel on Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||
My point remains: you did not pay to read the original work. You bought it later because you feel a sense of responsibility to do so, which is great, but you read it months - years even - before it ever hits American shores. It's an option for you - you don't have to wait, you don't ever have to pay. So you don't ever have to expect much, and the story can waste as much time as it wants, spend 10-12 volumes dicking around doing nothing and not really moving the story forward, and what's it to you? So long as it gets good later on, or does something to make you happy down the road, it's all good and anyone saying "volume 2 of the American release isn't very good" is being short-sighted because they aren't reading it under the exact same extremely forgivable and disposable conditions you are. Yeah, you bought it later, good for you. That doesn't mean you're not being really forgiving and noncritical; you're arguing in such a fashion that makes you seem like you're unwilling to see the flaws in a particular episode or volume of a series because you've seen the entire thing with no real personal investment and decided you liked it as a whole so anyone criticizing early installments on their own and taking the storyline as it comes MUST be unfair. This isn't an anti-scanlation argument, I just don't think you folks are really thinking your arguments through. You read 15+ volumes ahead of time online using scanlations and liked the whole thing enough to buy it as it's released here, great. No risk for you at all, you chose to do that, OK. That doesn't mean someone reading it for the first time in its official American release, buying it because they want to see where the story goes - something they can't or won't do online for free - are wrong because they thought the second volume was weak, and attacking them for saying so is silly. I would argue that the perspective of someone who bought and read an individual installment for the first time is providing a clearer and more valuable opinion than someone who read it all online for free using scanlations and is using the fact that they liked what happened in volumes 10-15 to excuse the sloppy, aimless writing in volume 2. |
||||
|
||||
abruli
 Posts: 19 |
|
|||
You seem to have low regard for time.. We have been allotted a finite time on this Earth. Money you can get more of, time you cannot. |
||||
|
||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||
Thank you anime Yoda, do you have any other nuggets of wisdom for me or is that it. |
||||
|
||||
teh*darkness
 Posts: 901 |
|
|||
Wow... yay for innocent comment starting the debate of the thread. Honestly Zac, I will agree with you. Someone who is reading this for the first time in English would be hard-pressed to continue reading, considering the slow pacing of the series, IF they were looking for a story-driven series. My main complaint with the review is that it seemed to place too great a critique on the lack of story in this volume, when really the whole series is lacking a lot of story. This isn't a series meant to be enjoyed for it's story. It's like one of those old 80's action movies. All action, explosions and blood/gore/violence. What little story there is is only there to keep it from being a straight collection of fight scenes. Now, only being two volumes in, there is no way to know this from the English release, but I kinda consider that Dark Horse seems to do a lot of "fan-favorite" series, so if they've licensed it, a lot of people will follow it on that alone, and of course the fans will also follow it. While I realize the review is justified in it's point of view, I also tried to clarify why I thought it was being harsh, rather than calling BS on it. I'm not even going to go into whether or not you are saying time is valuable or questioning my fandom-ness, since I know that wasn't your intent. I just thought I'd try to restate myself, so I couldn't be used as fuel for the wrong side of the argument. Again, this is simply a series for those who like action, and lots of it. If you like a little story with your action, here you go. If you like a little action with your story, keep moving, nothing to see here. 
|
||||
|
||||
|
Zhou-BR
Posts: 1440 |
|
|||
|
I admit it takes quite a while for Gantz to get really good, but I still find the first few volumes very entertaining, in a rollercoaster kind of way. They're shallow, but constantly engaging and exciting.
I also like how Oku takes the road less travelled, introducing an unlikable lead character and having him grow on the readers over time. You may hate Kurono now, but by volume 10 you'll be rooting for him like he was Rocky Balboa. |
||||
|
||||
|
Zopelthe543
|
|
|||
I personally find this series pretty genius on how Oku plotted the idea of Gantz and how it works. The fact that Oku can kill a cast of characters and replace them with new characters with different thoughts and action is just amazing. There's no end of the possibilities on character development and if one is lacking in popularity, oku can just kill off that character and replace him/her with no real difficulty. And like you said dAngel, the aspect of suddenly being dropped in the midst of a game, with the characters all struggling to survive impossible odds, is pretty intense and not to mention the mysteries of gantz will open up in later volumes or so it seems. There's so much going on with this series that I don't find it weak at all. I just think people put the series down because of it's provocative themes like sex and gore and think that the series is only focusing about sex, gore, and violence. but if you look it at the perspective of just 2 volumes it may just seem like sex, gore, and violence. |
||||
|
dAngel
Posts: 23 |
|
|||
Personally I don't think it is... I enjoyed the whole "WTF is going on!?" aspect, but I can see how someone looking for a complex scifi plot might want more. To me, the whole premise of Gantz is like a social experiment... let's drop random people from all walks of life in this situation and see how they react under pressure. It's interesting how everyone reacts different. Some panic and get killed right away, some go into denial, some try to lead and protect the group, while others get drunk off bloodlust. The rules keep changing, it's not fair, and no one really knows how or why. It's a bit like life, no?
I think the problem some people might have is that the characters are very shallow in the beginning. It is all about sex, gore, and violence, and the main character is a jerk who is rude to old people and only cares about getting laid. He's pathetic, basically. That's why it's so interesting and effective when spoiler[he gradually becomes the leader and falls for this really unlikely girl. ] I'll agree with the reviewer to a degree - volume 2 isn't the most exciting compared to the others. I wouldn't say it's boring though. Yes, the series does get better over time, but personally I was hooked by the first volume. I guess it's just not everyone's cup of tea, and there's nothing wrong with that. |
||||
|
||||
|
Raiuke
Posts: 1 |
|
|||
|
Well I haven't seen the manga but when I saw the first episode of Gantz I was like this is so totally different! :3 Then I started on the later episodes watching on the internet because yes I'm a kid
 and I don't have money. But the anime was only 26 episodes long and I noticed gaps in it and also it felt like it should of been longer. I might start on the manga but I'll try to buy some of it when it comes here. BUT I really don't see the problem of watching fan-subbed / fan-translated manga/anime. Also manga AND anime is much more expensive then in japan for instance to get the Weekly Shonen Jump it costs about $3.00 a week and it's the same size as our Shonen Jump (around a telephone book?) but it comes every week. Not only that but usually it takes (me) a while to get into anime's/manga's for instance bleach it took me about 40-50 episodes to get me into it. With Gants's unique style I slid into quickly and got addicted to it! I hope they continue the anime but most likely they wouldn't. Also to the person who said it's the people who watch anime on the internet bring down it then where would Naruto, Bleach, One Piece be if it weren't for the people who watch anime on the internet. Also many series would not even be known as well as they are if people did not watch them on the internet. As a side note I've watched some Japan-only shows which were fansubbed and also the subbers that the anime companies hire SUCK!!! Look at the subbing for bleach in your "collection" and then look at the subbing by people who don't even get paid for it! The quality differs but not how it should be. Fan-subs are usually better and brighter than most "bought subs.[/spoiler]
|
||||
|
||||
Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10440 Location: Do not message me for support. |
|
|||
The art does honestly get better in the later volumes. Like with many manga, there's a huge difference between volume 18 and volume 2. That being said, I don't know if it will be significant enough of a difference to sway Carlo. I love Gantz, but by no means would I call the artwork significantly above average (for professional, published manga). To be honest, I agree with Zac, but I fall into the category of reader whose opinion he is dismissing. I "read" Gantz in my spare time in manga cafes (Manga kiisa) in Japan, and the first couple volumes are not the strongest in the series. While it does "get better" I don't think a person who doesn't like the opening volumes will suddenly love the later volumes. It doesn't change significantly, it just improves what it already is. And let's face it, all the character development and story of the first 23 volumes (I haven't read #24 yet) could be condensed into maybe 4 volumes if it wasn't for the action. As always, there is no universal definition of "good manga" / "bad manga." You don't have to agree with a review to get something out of it. I've read many negative reviews and walked away with a desire to watch or read the product reviewed. That's because the reviewer did his job and gave me an idea of what the product is like and helped me decide whether or not I might like the product. In the end, his actual opinion is virtually meaningless, it's just there to flesh out the review. -t Last edited by Tempest on Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group