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INTEREST: Ken Akamatsu Comments on Casting POC Voice Actors in American Cartoons, Japanese Anime


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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:15 pm Reply with quote
Ryuji-Dono wrote:


That was the early 2010s. As of now, FUNimation is working to rectify on this. BEM, Astra and My Hero Academia so far included BIPOC in major character roles.


True very poor example on my part the game Wargroove would’ve been a far better example since it is still recent
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Ryuji-Dono



Joined: 26 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Dragon_Kaiser wrote:


True very poor example on my part the game Wargroove would’ve been a far better example since it is still recent


Oh, so Jason Marnocha playing a dark-skinned character, but also had David Dixon who's black playing a white character.

...Could be a well-intentioned casting that backfired a bit.
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 450
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:38 pm Reply with quote
My own thoughts mostly echo Akamatsu's. I find the notion that shows like The Simpsons changing iconic characters and voice actors to be absurd, but at the same time I treat it much like Apu being written out of the show years ago in that I also really don't care. The Simpsons hasn't been good in over 20 years so I really don't care what they do with it at this point and they can't touch the golden age era of the show. Although they can pull episodes like they did with the Michael Jackson one, but that's why Akamatsu's comments on old media preservation and ways to view old media are also important.

As far as anime dubs go, I don't watch them and prefer subs, but that seems more like an issue of just giving non-white people roles rather than accurate character portrayals. Which it really should be since there's no way you can accurately dub something unless you hire mostly Japanese-Americans to voice most anime characters. It's a can of worms dubbing companies have been trying to avoid while nervously glancing over at American cartoons becoming more and more strict on casting roles and regulating actor to character. They can't put off acknowledging the issue anymore, even though people have tried over the years to rationalizing it by trying to say anime characters are white, or that characters technically have no ethnicity because they're aliens or something. Americans can understand Aang, Sokka, Katara, and Toph are Asian despite being "Air Nomad" or "Water Tribe" but you tell some anime fans Son Goku or Sailor Moon are Japanese and they argue with you because they're aliens or have blonde hair. Glad Akamatsu commented on that.

Personally I would more prefer this affect Hollywood live-action adaptions more than dubs so we stop getting raceswapped characters like the upcoming Cowboy Bebop, but that seems like an whole other battle upon itself to be fought.
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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:41 pm Reply with quote
Ryuji-Dono wrote:


Oh, so Jason Marnocha playing a dark-skinned character, but also had David Dixon who's black playing a white character.

...Could be a well-intentioned casting that backfired a bit.


No I’m talking about the dlc characters that were released four new characters and of the four characters three of them were of color and wargroove was hyping up the release of them by promoting them showing clips and then doubled down by also promoting the actors that played all the characters as well and the three actors were white.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:52 pm Reply with quote
Dragon_Kaiser wrote:
Greed1914 wrote:
One of the best parts about voice acting is a person's appearance doesn't have to correlate to the character on screen. I've heard more than a few voice actors express that sentiment and say how it helps avoid typecasting because they don't have to look the part.

There is also obviously the problem of trying to cast based on an appearance that may or may not turn out to be accurate. What do you do with, for example, a show with a setting modeled after European medieval times, but the characters have Japanese names? Isekais would be a bit a challenge since many of them involve a Japanese person reincarnating with a different appearance. My Next Life as a Villainess involves a Japanese girl reincarnating into a character with a name and living in a setting that would suggest she is closer to European now. What do you do with that other than cast whomever gives the best audition?


Yea that’s great and all but when the English voice acting industry is predominantly white people and very few BIPOC in comparison the BIPOC actors really only get the one line token roles. While the white actors get both the white/BIPOC roles that’s why they get to say “it doesn’t matter how you look to be a voice actor” it’s really funny how it’s really only white voice actors saying that. Voice Actors that are BIPOC don’t get the same chance to audition for bigger roles because they are type casted for one off token characters and yet when a major role that is a character of color they’re not even given a chance at the role. Because it’s easier to go lets get Troy Baker or Nolan North or Laura Bailey and Jennifer Hale to play these characters rather than actually auditioning someone who wouldn’t get that opportunity in the first place.(Note I’m not calling Troy, Nolan, Laura or Jennifer out I used them as examples because let’s be real they are basically in everything) If you followed any BIPOC voice actor on twitter you would’ve seen them talking about this over the last few weeks how they normally don’t get major roles where the character is white or of color and mostly get type casted roles.


I'd say those examples given have more to do with an industry that tends to want to cast big names that are known quantities. That is especially so when studios are spending millions of dollars on a game. Everybody is at a disadvantage compared to a big name.

And I'm not saying there shouldn't be more diversity in the audition process and more open-mindedness when it comes to casting. I am saying that one of the biggest advantages of voice acting is that appearance should not matter. I'm not saying it never does factor into it, and it's a shame when it does. However, I am saying that it shouldn't matter what the fictional character on the screen looks like and should be left up to the people making the choices to cast whomever they feel fits the best, regardless of their physical appearance. Many voice actors would not be what Hollywood would consider "leading-role attractive" in terms of physical appearance, yet that isn't a barrier for that particular type of acting. Much the same way, skin color shouldn't be used as a barrier for casting for a character whose appearance is separate from the person voicing them.
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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:08 pm Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:


I'd say those examples given have more to do with an industry that tends to want to cast big names that are known quantities. That is especially so when studios are spending millions of dollars on a game. Everybody is at a disadvantage compared to a big name.

And I'm not saying there shouldn't be more diversity in the audition process and more open-mindedness when it comes to casting. I am saying that one of the biggest advantages of voice acting is that appearance should not matter. I'm not saying it never does factor into it, and it's a shame when it does. However, I am saying that it shouldn't matter what the fictional character on the screen looks like and should be left up to the people making the choices to cast whomever they feel fits the best, regardless of their physical appearance. Many voice actors would not be what Hollywood would consider "leading-role attractive" in terms of physical appearance, yet that isn't a barrier for that particular type of acting. Much the same way, skin color shouldn't be used as a barrier for casting for a character whose appearance is separate from the person voicing them.


Yea skin color shouldn’t affect voice acting but guess what it does and there’s no hiding that, Voice actors that are BIPOC have said this they don’t get the roles because they are type casted as one off token characters with one line. And there does need to be a change which is happening in small steps but it’s happening so that’s good.
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theilikepie



Joined: 30 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:43 pm Reply with quote
Why are they asking that question from a dude who loves in a homogeneous country? Japan dosent have the same racial problems America has. He could never understand
the context behind the decisions and isnt qualified to give his opinion on it which he jas mentioned

There arent that man poc voice actors in japan so no point in asking.


Last edited by theilikepie on Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Greed1914



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:44 pm Reply with quote
Dragon_Kaiser wrote:


Yea skin color shouldn’t affect voice acting but guess what it does and there’s no hiding that, Voice actors that are BIPOC have said this they don’t get the roles because they are type casted as one off token characters with one line. And there does need to be a change which is happening in small steps but it’s happening so that’s good.


I think you may be missing my point. Typecasting isn't a good thing, and making casting decisions based on the appearance of the character on the screen, whether actual or perceived, isn't going to do anything other than encourage more typecasting. Casting certainly should be more open to all sorts of actors, and voice casting choices should take advantage of the fact that the character on the screen and the person auditioning don't need to look at all similar. I think leaving the field open, regardless of what the actor looks like, stands to make for a more inclusive environment. It's not good that those barriers were and are present (I'm certainly not arguing it hasn't been a problem), but I'm not sure that casting an actor because they share a similar appearance to a character that was created wholly separate from the actor is the way to go about addressing that.

The article was about Akamatsu's comments about the recent trend towards casting/recasting based on appearance. Where anime is concerned, that appearance is frequently just an artistic choice so, to me at least, it seems silly to get wrapped up in what the actor looks like compared to a cartoon character.
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Dragon_Kaiser



Joined: 27 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:53 pm Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:


I think you may be missing my point. Typecasting isn't a good thing, and making casting decisions based on the appearance of the character on the screen, whether actual or perceived, isn't going to do anything other than encourage more typecasting. Casting certainly should be more open to all sorts of actors, and voice casting choices should take advantage of the fact that the character on the screen and the person auditioning don't need to look at all similar. I think leaving the field open, regardless of what the actor looks like, stands to make for a more inclusive environment. It's not good that those barriers were and are present (I'm certainly not arguing it hasn't been a problem), but I'm not sure that casting an actor because they share a similar appearance to a character that was created wholly separate from the actor is the way to go about addressing that.

The article was about Akamatsu's comments about the recent trend towards casting/recasting based on appearance. Where anime is concerned, that appearance is frequently just an artistic choice so, to me at least, it seems silly to get wrapped up in what the actor looks like compared to a cartoon character.


Read these tweets from Deven Mack a Black Voice Actor and his perspective/experience of all of this in the voice acting industry and that’s where I’m going to end it.

https://twitter.com/devenoclock/status/1276859379850121218?s=21


https://twitter.com/devenoclock/status/1229898536667566080?s=21


https://twitter.com/devenoclock/status/1277991260272328705?s=21

Bonus tweet a response to someone who basically said an actor should be able to play anyone it doesn’t matter if the actor isn’t xy or z https://twitter.com/devenoclock/status/1276235680985812992?s=21
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:03 pm Reply with quote
I don't think VAs should have to match who they're playing on screen and trying to do that for a speaking role is a disservice to the talents of VAs. Having said that, there's clearly a bias (whether intentional or not) when it comes to who gets hired for what roles (for the most part). Perhaps in the future all VAs can just audition on a blind basis. No head shots and no visuals for whoever is doing the hiring. Just base the casting squarely on their vocal talents.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Shouldn't the push be more to have people of color voicing 'white' characters instead of just characters that are people of color? Otherwise you're just pigeonholing/typecasting them into certain roles. Not sure I understand the value of this push.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Please watch the massive amount of embedded quotes guys. When you keep quoting over and over those huge blocks of quotes "break" the pages for mobile users and also just clutter the thread up. Thanks.
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ZephyrVayu



Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:54 pm Reply with quote
Not being in the voice acting industry, and not even being in America, I cannot speak in regards to how biased it may or may not be for PoC actors trying to work their way up in said industry, nor do I feel I have the authority to do so. So I can't say whether or not PoC voice actors have legitimate grievances or if instances of discrimination such as those in the links another user posted happen frequently. Like all other groups, PoC VAs, specifically black VAs, are not united under a single harmonious opinion, and I'm sure there are some of them who echo Akamatsu's sentiments.

There may very well be racial-bias within the American VA industry. Does that mean the staff of 'The Simpsons' and 'Family Guy' made the right choice? I my opinion: no.

Not only is it an empty gesture which feels incredibly disingenuous (people are protesting because of police brutality, not because Cleveland Brown is voiced by a white guy - meaning the actions of theses shows can either be perceived as misguided and poorly-timed at best, or desperate grabs for attention and praise at worst), it's alienating to their core fanbase. Specifically, 'Family Guy'. A show which prides itself on being politically incorrect. (This decision could potentially pigeon-hole PoC VAs even more. It may mean more PoC VAs break into the industry, or it could just mean extra work for Phil LaMarr and Kevin Michael Richardson.)

I also believe people have a valid concern when they bring up how this could effect freedom of expression in animation. Yeah, there's no law stating that all characters be voiced by someone of the same ethnicity, but these shows clearly felt an immense social pressure to conform. A social pressure from a small minority of particularly vocal people for that matter, because there wasn't even necessarily a strong demand for this move from PoC viewers, at least not to my knowledge.

You should set a prescient by ensuring that PoC characters are voiced by the appropriate VAs moving forward, but as someone who is strongly anti-censorship, I cannot agree with socially forcing past and pre-existing shows to conform to a new set of social standards which have only existed in very recent times. I prefer Japan's approach: including warnings before older shows with potentially offensive content, rather than outright banning something (so many shows have been banned or censored in the West in recent weeks ('Always Sunny', 'Mighty Boosh') - the justifications can be as pure-sounding as you like, but I, like many advocates for freedom of expression, and just advocates of good, diverse, unashamed comedy, cannot approve).

There's a reason why EVERY episode of 'South Park' begins with a warning, because it's intentionally offensive and un-PC as hell, and entities like that are still needed and deserving of a place in entertainment. I don't even believe future animations should be pressured into selecting their VAs based on the ethnicity of characters. Although it's probably too idealistic to hope that casting directors will make their decisions based solely on voice, and not appearance - that is what we should ultimately be fighting for. Where anyone can voice any character, and superficial traits such as race, gender and sexuality are irrelevant. Where a cartoon with an all-white cast can have an all-black voice cast. There should be no rules when it comes to animation, including the voice work. It's meant to be the one medium where the only limit is imagination.

I think this effecting anime dubs is unlikely, although anything is possible at this point. You have to take into account who (if anyone) is going to potentially be offended by your decisions, and the original Japanese VAs and creators of the work in question are not going to be offended in the slightest by white voice actors dubbing their characters overseas, and considering how most anime characters do appear Caucasian, it feels like a victim-less issue. The decision in this regard its not ours to make, it is Japan's, and we already know at least Akamastsu's thoughts. Also, if you're going to insist all anime characters (at least the ones set in Japan, not a fantasy world like 'One Piece' or 'Fairy Tail', ect.) be voiced by American-Japanese actors, then it kind of brings into question how these characters who live in Japan are all speaking English. If the former becomes problematic then shouldn't that as well? (But as someone who goes with subs 9 out of 10 times I'm not going to be bothered no matter what happens)
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Jeff Bauersfeld



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:33 pm Reply with quote
For those speaking of casting choices being based on vocal talent alone, how do you judge who is best to voice a minority character? More specifically, how do a bunch of white people judge who would best voice a minority character, particularly when most/all of the auditioners are also white? You end getting Apu, probably the most famous SEA cartoon character in America if not the Western world. His voice and lyrical style is a caricature; and while I don't know what the casting decision was for Apu, but would it be surprising if the VA was chosen because a bunch of white people thought this white guy had the funniest caricature of a SEA accent?

For a whole generation of white kids like me, he defined our assumption of how SEA talked and acted. And while the SEA people I've talked to liked seeing someone like them in a major TV show, the constant jokes by white people using his accent were microaggression hell. I'd like to know what an actual SEA person, with input by more than just white writers and directors, would bring to the role.
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Cutiebunny



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:00 pm Reply with quote
Ken Akamatsu wrote:
"However, I will say that the move to select actors on their race rather than their individual talents appears to go against the path that humanity has walked throughout history."


Really could not have said it better myself. I also would like to add gender as well. I love all the characters on Bob's Burgers, including those that are voiced by someone who is not of that gender. Honestly doesn't matter to me. If the material is good, I'll watch.

However, I don't agree with the trend of only having people of certain ethnicities voice characters of their same ethnicity. Does that mean that white characters should only be voiced by white people too? Seems rather unfair if you feel that every race can voice white characters but then feel every other race should be the only ones who can voice a cartoon representation of their race. And in the case of shows like The Simpsons, where the main characters are yellow, who should voice them? If we're that sensitive as a nation to things like this, maybe we should just give unrealistic skin hues to characters so that everyone can voice everyone.
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