Forum - View topicNEWS: N. America's 2007 Anime Market Pegged at US$2.8 Billion
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3492 Location: Back stateside |
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Yeah, I've been known to defend fansubs for preview purposes, but that's quite possibly the most illogical claim I've ever seen made about them. How are fansubs tied to toy sales more than R1 releases? In fact, I would think that being televised has the highest correlation to to sales. You get a broader exposure, including people who might not be into anime as much. (see: Naruto, Dragonball in all its forms). |
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einhorn303
 Posts: 1180 |
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Media based on the sale of media = tends to be quality.
Media based on the sale of merchandising = tends to be crap. This is a fundamental and ancient truth. |
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TokyoGetter
 Posts: 416 Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards. |
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I can see this as making sense... even DVD sales in Japan are nowhere near as high as you'd think. Still I wonder exactly how the numbers were compiled, etc. I remember when Ledford from ADV was interviewed here and he stated explicitly as to why he couldn't flatly state the numbers for his company.
Anyway, I guess I can still do my part by buying toy robots... even though I feel sort of BAD for buying them at my age. 
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ConanSan
Posts: 1818 |
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As a side, I always imagine JETRO being some sort of Gun-for-hire that Cobra sends out to fight GI Joe every week.
If only cus the name sounds like it poped out of a toy line from that time. |
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jdb728
Posts: 77 Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca. |
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Come on, isn't the latter what made Yu-Gi-Oh: The Movie such a smashing success? 
For me personally, I buy quite a few DVDs, and hardly ever any toys(just getting that out of the way). I have to agree that fan subbing may help toy sales, but it's unlikely to do very much at all in the overall picture. The majority of the toy sales are to young children who watch Yu-Gi-Oh/Pokemon/Naruto/whatever on Cartoon Network/Fox/WB/Whathaveyou, I would imagine. The multi billion $ sales are not likely to be coming from the 12-30(Blind guessing) that are watching fansubs and refusing to buy dvds or watch legitimate copies of anime once released in the US. Not that I'm an expert on the economics of the Anime industry here in the states. In short, I'd wager that we have Cartoon Network(with Naruto, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon) to thank for the merchandise sales a whole lot more then pirate fansubs. Streaming via ANN(and other legit sources) is a good thing, but it should only be the first couple of episodes, so people could get a feel for a series, then go buy the DVD of it. I'm not sure people watching free streaming or downloads of series' really stimulates the industry. 
As to the overall numbers, I've little doubt that '08s numbers will be drastically lower for the DVDs, but hopefully merchandising can keep its solid numbers. Thanks. |
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Axe-336
 Posts: 143 Location: Springfield, VA |
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Bingo. I've talked to various people who are like "Ugh, I can't afford $20 for a DVD or $40 for a DS game" but then will go out and buy some fancy clothing, or a new piercing or tattoo, or get a $50 haircut or some superfluous piece of technology. Thats why brand name clothing can stay expensive, because you can't get it illegally (Well, except for straight up swiping it from the store, but who does that anymore except to re-sell on the internet?) |
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Mr. sickVisionz
 Posts: 2173 |
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Why do they even waste time doing DVD? When you browse on the web and in magazines, all you see is ads for DVDs, but it's only about 11% of the total industry.
On a sidenote, these numbers are just revenue, not profit (revenue minus costs). I'd love to see what those numbers were, especially the profit made from DVD. |
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minakichan
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North American DVD market: $316 million
North American Character Goods market: $2.5 billion North American Anime market: $2.8 billion Highest North American Anime market: $4.84 million Highest North American DVD market: $415 million CLEARLY the decline in the anime market is because of fansubs and illegal downloading-- OH WAIT. IT'S NOT. BECAUSE A 2 BILLION DOLLAR DECREASE IN THE ANIME MARKET ISN'T SOLELY THE RESULT OF A 100 MILLION DOLLAR DECREASE IN THE DVD MARKET. This would be why people who say that the anime market's sky=falling because of fansubs are simply not correct. The anime market is driven far more by merchandise than it is by actual video-- just as it is in Japan-- and the percentage decrease in character goods is much greater than the percentage decrease in DVD. Also, one cannot make the leap of logic to say that DVD sales affect character good sales because fansub viewers are not less likely to buy merchandise (you can't download toys!). The decrease in the market is simply because we don't have a huge children's toy anime hit, plain and simple (oh yeah, and this thing called the ECONOMY). No swarms of elementary schoolers are as crazy for Bakugan as they were for Yu-Gi-Oh!
Considering that the anime market is FOUNDED upon merchandising, I suppose quality anime does not exist. Yes, it's a sad truth that merchandising is necessary, but without it, you would not have an industry at all. Even Ghibli movies need toys. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23899 |
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I don't think anybody is blaming piracy for the decline of anime-related sales as a whole. It's not outrageous to assume that the decline of anime DVD sales is related to the rise of piracy, however.
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teh*darkness
 Posts: 901 |
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What I'd be curious to see is the numbers of US/R1 fansub downloaders over the last 5 years vs. the numbers of fansub downloaders in say, Malaysia, Singapore and the Phillipines. Not to mention all the European countries, like Germany, Sweden, France and Italy. I would almost believe that US teens/20-somethings have less time to watch anime now than they used to, hence the decline of the related markets, whereas more and more people in other countries are gaining access to high-speed internet and watching more. Only a guess, of course, but a possibility. |
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jdb728
Posts: 77 Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca. |
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I didn't think anyone was saying it's the fault of fansubs that merchandise sales have dropped. I think one could make a legitimate argument that fansubs are at least part of the decline in DVD sales though.
I'm also not sure that one could make a good argument for fansubs helping the merchandising market. You(kinda) hit the nail right on the head though. The merchandise sales are fueling primarily by kids getting toys(be it holidays, or just parents caving to whining in stores) based on whatever fad show is big at the time. As you said, we haven't had a huge kids hit(aside from Naruto), so basically the market drops and rises by the popularity of whatever anime Cartoon Network and the like are airing. What I must strongly disagree with you on is about the anime market being FOUNDED upon merchandising. Yes, merchandising is important to overall staying power and success, but I think the point he/she was originally trying to get at is more along the lines of shows based on the marketing(ie Yu-Gi-Oh being an exaggerated infomercial for the card game) tend to be lower quality then shows that can stand alone, but have a strong marketing presence along with them(ie Cowboy Bebop). I don't think the post was implying by any means that marketing is bad or anything like that. Thanks. |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3492 Location: Back stateside |
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100% agree with you. It's the kiddies with parents with disposal income.
100% disagree with you. As someone suffering from what I call "Gonzo syndrome" (from my reaction Chrono Crusade, Seven Samurai, Red Garden, Trinity Blood...probably missing one in there), I adamantly refuse to buy anything where I have not seen the ending. I'm not going to spend $100 or more and get to an ending that disappoints/pisses me off and makes me wish I'd never bought any of it. Streaming will eliminate the need for fansubs-as-previews if and only if one can watch the entirety of the series. The Japanese audience can watch the whole thing on TV first, we should be allowed to as well. This is all a side tangent, though. What I find amazing is how much more goes into merchandising than DVDs. I mean, twice I could believe, but eight times as much? At this point, in terms of merchandise, i think i have a pin, a patch, a shirt, and my chibi Batou figurine which has followed me around as a good-luck charm for years. I have lots of DVDs and loads of manga, I just don't get much into the whole merchandise thing. Maybe it's my age...or more likely my extreme poverty. |
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DomFortress
 Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14813 |
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No wonder 4Kids concentrates on merchandise licensing rather than providing DVDs of their anime!
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DomFortress
Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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Last edited by DomFortress on Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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