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[Off-Topic] Are you a Wapanese?


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Anthony P



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, US
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:07 pm Reply with quote
Wandering Knight wrote:
You didn't get my point. I meant that almost every country in the world has a deep contact with western American culture, but that you get a minimum contact back. Do you get what I mean? I'm sure you learn about other countries, as do I, but you don't get many songs from South America on the radio, or from the Middle East, or even from East Europe, but I'm sure those countries do get a lot of your music on the radio.

Music is just an example. Asian traditional housebuilding has been quickly replaced in its majority by western building, in most cities of the world you'll see American movies being showcased on a huge proportion compared to national cinema, 80% of the channels in cable TV here are American, McDonald's and Coca-Cola are brands that have reached almost all countries in the world... I can keep going on forever. I seriously doubt you have foreign influence to that extent.

What you're saying is true, but I really wouldn't call it "a form of conquering" like you said earlier. It's not like America forces people from other countries to listen to our music or eat McDonald's. All of these American things pop up everywhere around the world because they're successful there. If people from other countries stopped listening to the radio stations that played American music, would said stations continue to play the American music? Doubtful. If people in other countries stopped eating at McDonalds's, would said McDonald's stay open? Probably not. The same likely applies for everything else of that nature. I personally think it's kind of sad, and I'll be one of the first to say that we overstep our bounds way too often, but we're not forcing things like music, movies, and fast food onto other countries.
SuperOnizuka wrote:
Countries choose to use English because of economics, at the moment. With that said Chinese will be the dominating global language within a couple decades. Since China is becoming the economic giant and superpower. Wink

I'm glad to see other people are catching savvy to this. I've been telling everyone for the last two years that we'll all be paying Chinese taxes soon enough, but everyone thinks it's a joke. The Chinese already comprise a little over one-sixth of the world's population, so there isn't much more of the world that they'll need to take over.Wink I've actually seriously considered learning some basic Chinese to get a head start.
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SuperOnizuka



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 421
Location: When I look At the World- New Jersey
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:33 pm Reply with quote
Anthony P wrote:
Wandering Knight wrote:
You didn't get my point. I meant that almost every country in the world has a deep contact with western American culture, but that you get a minimum contact back. Do you get what I mean? I'm sure you learn about other countries, as do I, but you don't get many songs from South America on the radio, or from the Middle East, or even from East Europe, but I'm sure those countries do get a lot of your music on the radio.

Music is just an example. Asian traditional housebuilding has been quickly replaced in its majority by western building, in most cities of the world you'll see American movies being showcased on a huge proportion compared to national cinema, 80% of the channels in cable TV here are American, McDonald's and Coca-Cola are brands that have reached almost all countries in the world... I can keep going on forever. I seriously doubt you have foreign influence to that extent.

What you're saying is true, but I really wouldn't call it "a form of conquering" like you said earlier. It's not like America forces people from other countries to listen to our music or eat McDonald's. All of these American things pop up everywhere around the world because they're successful there. If people from other countries stopped listening to the radio stations that played American music, would said stations continue to play the American music? Doubtful. If people in other countries stopped eating at McDonalds's, would said McDonald's stay open? Probably not. The same likely applies for everything else of that nature. I personally think it's kind of sad, and I'll be one of the first to say that we overstep our bounds way too often, but we're not forcing things like music, movies, and fast food onto other countries.
SuperOnizuka wrote:
Countries choose to use English because of economics, at the moment. With that said Chinese will be the dominating global language within a couple decades. Since China is becoming the economic giant and superpower. Wink

I'm glad to see other people are catching savvy to this. I've been telling everyone for the last two years that we'll all be paying Chinese taxes soon enough, but everyone thinks it's a joke. The Chinese already comprise a little over one-sixth of the world's population, so there isn't much more of the world that they'll need to take over.Wink I've actually seriously considered learning some basic Chinese to get a head start.


Just because Mcdonalds is in every country does not mean it serves just American food. It has to also offer food from the native culture as well in order to break even. In India, they use different kitchens to cook, since they do not like to cook meat with vegetarian food, and, they don't kill cows for the Indian McDonalds. You should watch Samurai Baseball, I believe that is the title. It may be a documentary from the early 90s, but it is still very relevant. It discusses how KFC and other "fast" food chains went into Japan, only to realize that they had to accommodate to the native culture to even break even. They had to change their managing style, items they were selling, and how they interacted with the customers. In France, they offer alcoholic beverages with their meals.

America, has tons of diverse resturants, ranging from Asian to Middle Eastern, and then some. I never thought i would see the day where I would find instant pho. Pho is a traditional Vietnamese noodle soup that is really good. My family is a very traditional Vietnamese family. So cooking Vietnamese food is like second hand, but seeing instant pho in the shelves of a Shop Rite, blew our minds. We were like... WOW!!

The only reason why Western media, such as movies, music, and pop culture seem so pervasive is because they are big budget and have more resources to be broadcasted. But to say that the "dominant" culture does not get influenced by the cultures that they are purportedly "dominating" is kinda hogwash. Bollywood, movies from China (not from Hong Kong) are becoming more entertaining, generating higher budgets, and more influential. Anime is Japanese and look at the statistics of its coolness in America. It really depends on how the country takes it in and puts out. The Matrix was influenced by Asian martial arts films, among other things.

American structures are more functional, to tell you the truth. Apartment buildings can hold more people. The continent of Asia holds a lot of people and using traditional housing would not be able to accommodate all those that come to the cities.


But just wait for it ... now you may be upset about "westernized," "easternization" is just around the corner. Not saying that is a bad thing, it isn't. Linguists have stated that Chinese will become the dominant language in a couple decades. So soon, it might not be American culture that is "dominating." Wink


As for the original topic, although I find Japan very interesting, I do not have any interest to go there to visit or stay.
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omar235



Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 1572
Location: Florida, Jacksonvile
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:53 pm Reply with quote
Sorry Wandering Knight I misinterpreted what you said Embarassed but I agree with Anthony P I wouldn't label it as a way of conquering.

Anthony P wrote:
I'm glad to see other people are catching savvy to this. I've been telling everyone for the last two years that we'll all be paying Chinese taxes soon enough, but everyone thinks it's a joke. The Chinese already comprise a little over one-sixth of the world's population, so there isn't much more of the world that they'll need to take over.Wink I've actually seriously considered learning some basic Chinese to get a head start.


Yeah and if all the Asian countries got together they would take up a third of the population of the planet. Laughing Hmm how much do you think populations plays in cultural influence on those who aren't part of that ethnic background, I mean American stuff is every where but we are hardly the largest in population. What are we like the 4th or 5th most populated country? Also does anyone want to put up any web pages about the chinese becoming dominant soon it sounds interesting...are there any? Very Happy


Last edited by omar235 on Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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atromoby



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 20
Location: Kiwiland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:54 pm Reply with quote
It takes one sentence to describe the Japanese sub-culture as a whole:
It's full of porns! Wink
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Wandering Knight



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:15 pm Reply with quote
Well, of course you have your share of foreign influence, I never denied it, but I'm telling you, it's minimal compared to other countries. Here in Argentina, not even 5% of the movies broadcasted are national, and only a small margin of people go to the cinema to watch 'em. In McDonald's, they serve good ol' American burguer. American style of life, like it or not, has pierced through us, but because it's the only style of life I know since I was born, I can't imagine living otherwise. It's really a complicated feeling to convey, and I repeat, you should live an entire life in a dominated country to understand what I'm talking about.

Quote:


What you're saying is true, but I really wouldn't call it "a form of conquering" like you said earlier. It's not like America forces people from other countries to listen to our music or eat McDonald's. All of these American things pop up everywhere around the world because they're successful there. If people from other countries stopped listening to the radio stations that played American music, would said stations continue to play the American music? Doubtful. If people in other countries stopped eating at McDonalds's, would said McDonald's stay open? Probably not. The same likely applies for everything else of that nature. I personally think it's kind of sad, and I'll be one of the first to say that we overstep our bounds way too often, but we're not forcing things like music, movies, and fast food onto other countries.


Let's see if I can explain what I mean by "forcing". Philosophers disagree in many things, but nowadays, they agree upon one thing: freedom of choice doesn't exist in the total meaning of the expression. People's conducts are conditioned by their environment, the culture where they grew up, the experiences they passed, and this is the external charge that conditions their "choice".

A common attitude in the world where outer image is the rule of thumb, is that to be like successful people, you have to act like successful people. But, in capitalism, "being like" is often changed by "appearing", and "to act", by "to consume". Once a person is in a dominated position, he or she starts gazing at their superiors, who become his or her "ideal of people". Putting it bluntly (which would sound quite ferocious and most certainly you'd be turned away by this idea), people crave to become better by consuming what 'better' people have or consume. This is an obvious illusion, but it's an illusion publicity has been using for decades. It's what "coolness" and superficiality are all about. Now PLEASE understand that I'm speaking in general terms here, I bet I could find hundreds of individual examples that contradict this rule, but the general attitude of dominated societies tends (as I see it) to what I just described. Now of course I cannot consider myself out of this, I'm a person like any other and I'm also inmersed into the game of consumption within the capitalist system.

PLEASE, don't put yourselves as examples to reply. I'm talking about a whole society. Don't feel attacked, either. I am not denouncing you or your country in any way. I'm just describing what I see from my humble position.

Oh, and about the Chinese rise, it's to be expected. The U.S.'s supremacy has been slowly but steadily going downhill from some time ago now.
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Anthony P



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 227
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, US
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:25 pm Reply with quote
SuperOnizuka wrote:

Just because Mcdonalds is in every country does not mean it serves just American food. It has to also offer food from the native culture as well in order to break even. In India, they use different kitchens to cook, since they do not like to cook meat with vegetarian food, and, they don't kill cows for the Indian McDonalds. You should watch Samurai Baseball, I believe that is the title. It may be a documentary from the early 90s, but it is still very relevant. It discusses how KFC and other "fast" food chains went into Japan, only to realize that they had to accommodate to the native culture to even break even. They had to change their managing style, items they were selling, and how they interacted with the customers. In France, they offer alcoholic beverages with their meals

Samurai Baseball, you say? I'll have to check that out; this is interesting stuff.
Wandering Knight wrote:
. Let's see if I can explain what I mean by "forcing". Philosophers disagree in many things, but nowadays, they agree upon one thing: freedom of choice doesn't exist in the total meaning of the expression. People's conducts are conditioned by their environment, the culture where they grew up, the experiences they passed, and this is the external charge that conditions their "choice".

A common attitude in the world where outer image is the rule of thumb, is that to be like successful people, you have to act like successful people. But, in capitalism, "being like" is often changed by "appearing", and "to act", by "to consume". Once a person is in a dominated position, he or she starts gazing at their superiors, who become his or her "ideal of people". Putting it bluntly (which would sound quite ferocious and most certainly you'd be turned away by this idea), people crave to become better by consuming what 'better' people have or consume. This is an obvious illusion, but it's an illusion publicity has been using for decades. It's what "coolness" and superficiality are all about. Now PLEASE understand that I'm speaking in general terms here, I bet I could find hundreds of individual examples that contradict this rule, but the general attitude of dominated societies tends (as I see it) to what I just described. Now of course I cannot consider myself out of this, I'm a person like any other and I'm also inmersed into the game of consumption within the capitalist system.

This is becoming a slippery slope. While I feel that what you've said here is correct, a lot of it hinges on the individual's personal values and the degrees of conformity they feel comfortable in. No, there's no unconditional, ideal freedom of choice, but there are still choices to be made. The choices may not be convenient (going against foreign influences which have become social norms) , and they might not be apparent (ways of living/thinking that one hasn't been exposed to), but they are still there.
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Azathrael



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:45 pm Reply with quote
Wandering Knight wrote:
I still believe it's a naive way of seeing things. If globalization is as reciprocal as you proclame, then please name four Argentinian music artists and a couple of their songs. I, on the other hand (and most of the Argentinian population) can name dozens of American artists, records and songs, painters, writers, even many passages of your history. You only receive a few influences from outside--mainly of powerful nations like England, France, or Japan. I'm making a guess here, I assume it, but I don't think I'm pretty far off the truth. It's really easy to imagine a run-of-the-mill country to be full of American merchandising, but very hard to think of it the other way around.


I don't see your example as serving any kind of legitimacy to the idea of "conquering". Art, music, science, whatever; they're all influences, not "dominating factors". Maybe the music industry of Argentina suffers as American artists are more popular among the Argentinians; does that means the culture itself is being conquered? No. So you eat Snickers, watch Hollywood movies and wear Nike. Does that mean Argentina's culture is being conquered? Again, no, it's simply incorporating American culture as a part of it. If a culture is truly being "dominated", then the result should be that the original culture eventually becomes nonexistent and is taken over by the conqueror. Or are we going to start ranking culture as superior and inferior? I think you're mistaking economical and political superiority as the basis for claiming that a culture is "conquering" another culture. Culture is something completely different.

Wandering Knight wrote:

Though culture might be preserved in some way or the other (it always does and always did, even in nations conquered by Romans), it weakens at the influx of western ways. Most of kids my age I know don't give a damn about national Argentinian folklore music, myself included. Even the national music on the radio has a deep, deep influence of American and European music. And I bet you don't go to Japan to find most young people listening to Enka.

It is a form of domination. Why is it then that countries adapt to western ways? Economics? I'd rather think there's some sense of inferiority before the powerful nations, and so by adapting to their ways (which actually means buying their stuff, thus justifying their dominant position) there is actually some kind of hidden desire to become like them.


A completely different issue altogether. The preservation of national culture is independent of the influence of foreign culture. If people don't like Enka, they're not going to listen to it. If people come to like hip-hop, you see Japanese hip-hop artists appear as a sign that the culture has been influenced. Culture isn't so fixed as to define it as the level of preservation of traditional culture; it is always changing, sometimes with the influence of foreign culture, and whatever resulting mix is then the "new culture" of that nation. Japanese hip-hop, though given by America, is Japanese culture.

Take Afro Samurai as an example. Now, is that Japanese culture dominating American culture, or American culture dominating Japanese culture? If you can't define "cultural dominance" at a level as basic as this, you have no grounds to claim "cultural dominance" of entire national cultures.
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Wandering Knight



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:47 am Reply with quote
I consider it a "conquering" because that, you like it or not, culture sells. What's more, almost anything you buy is influenced by your culture. Dominated countries are consume according to the cultural standards of consumption of dominating nations, just because they are dominated. It's a spiral that can go a long way without seeing a clear exit. Meanwhile, dominating countries make a lot of profit by selling their own culture to dominated nations.

Quote:
So you eat Snickers, watch Hollywood movies and wear Nike. Does that mean Argentina's culture is being conquered?


Okay, maybe I made a wrong choice of words. It's being dominated, because all that money I spend on eating Snickers, watching Hollywood movies and wearing Nike goes off to a country that's not mine. It IS domination. I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing. But it is domination, because I depend on foreign elements to continue with my style of life.

I know perfectly that culture is not static. But what I mean by domination and conquering is just what I saw from the percentage of foreign influence you receive from outside, and the percentage of your influence most other countries receive. Which also creates a new culture of their own, I know, but still, you have to think that while most cultures in the world have changed to accomodate to your standards, yours has changed little. Right now, since American power and influence has slowly started going downhill, I bet you'll see more influence of foreign countries. But that's by no way comparative to how much other countries have changed.

I am not saying it is a good or a bad thing. I didn't cast my opinion on that, I just limited myself to describe what I observed. I also didn't say "your culture is trash". I am just limiting myself to what I see and hear, without putting any clear emphasis on judging it.

Okay, maybe this can start to go nowhere, so if I see that happens, I won't post anymore on this subject. Besides, I gotta go to work in 15 minutes and I'm not ready yet :O
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Azathrael



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:01 pm Reply with quote
Wandering Knight wrote:

Okay, maybe I made a wrong choice of words. It's being dominated, because all that money I spend on eating Snickers, watching Hollywood movies and wearing Nike goes off to a country that's not mine. It IS domination. I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing. But it is domination, because I depend on foreign elements to continue with my style of life.


I think what you said here supports what I've said in my previous post - you're mistaking economical and political superiority as the basis for claiming that a culture is "conquering" another culture. If you look at where the money goes, then sure, it's dominance. But if you look at where the culture goes, those factors become a part of the original culture, not dominance. Snickers and McDonald's don't replace native Argentinian food, it's an addition of a new culture onto traditional culture which results in a modern culture, which like I said, is constantly changing.

And to be exact, it's not the culture that sells, it's the product. The culture just happens to come with it. Therefore while Snickers may outsell Argentinian chocolate bars, that kind of economical dominance has nothing to do with the incorporation of American culture into Argentinian culture. Take anime as another example. Americans aren't "dominated" by Japanese culture through anime; the product (anime) sells and Japanese culture happens to come with it, which some Americans happen to like. Pseudo-otaku like to use common anime phrases like "kawaii" or "baka". On the other hand, you have all these American ANN users who post about how stereotypically Europeans are drawn in anime, or how women are portrayed unequally. These two types of people are all under a small category of what is defined as "American culture".
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Wandering Knight



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:01 pm Reply with quote
Okay, we might have come to an agreement. I believe the discussion started because you thought that cultural influence is assimilated with the country's own culture (which is true), and I admit I had misunderstood your point, but I still firmly believe that the percentage of influence America has over every other nation in the world is much bigger than the influence of foreign countries over America, which was the reason why I started the debate. I admit I have no direct contact with the US, but I'm assuming it anyways.
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God Gundam



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 404
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:02 am Reply with quote
There are only two countries that should run the world - America and Japan. Don't ask me why because I don't want to get banned.

And as for the Wapanese thing, I know only one person who is one - AND NOBODY LIKES HIM. His girlfriend (who is gorgeous) even broke up with him after catching him practicing Naruto hand signs last week.
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:04 am Reply with quote
atromoby wrote:
It takes one sentence to describe the Japanese sub-culture as a whole:
It's full of porns! Wink

As if this thread wasn't absurd enough already....



(Zac has his bunny pics.... me, I like Kubrick)

Seriously, this has all degraded into name-calling and cultural one-upmanship, not to mention the odd bit of nationalistic stereotyping. Could we please strive for a slightly less childish tone?

- abunai
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:51 pm Reply with quote
God Gundam wrote:
There are only two countries that should run the world - America and Japan. Don't ask me why because I don't want to get banned.
Wasn't this decided some 60 years ago? Wink
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Iritscen



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 793
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:40 am Reply with quote
God Gundam wrote:
His girlfriend (who is gorgeous) even broke up with him after catching him practicing Naruto hand signs last week.


*rofl* "What are you doing in that bathroom, John? You'd better not be making those hand signs again! How many times is that today?"
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dizzywulf



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 102
Location: Wakayama, Japan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:08 pm Reply with quote
I hate the word weeaboo. It's such a slur.
Isn't a weeaboo someone who wants to physically be Japanese or something like that?
I'm just fine the way I am, thank you. I don't think of Japanese culture as being superior to any other culture either, it's just what I'm interested in.


I speak Japanese, around a JLPT 2級 level. I wouldn't call myself fluent, but I can understand most of a newspaper and use my abilities in a professional setting. (I can't quite write a college-level paper though).

I love anime/manga but I won't indiscriminantly watch/read everything just because it's there. I have my own tastes and I know what I like. But I won't write off a series completely until I've seen a little bit of it.

I also watch a lot of dramas and variety shows. I don't love every show I've seen, (there are some pretty terrible ones out there)...but I do like a lot of them.

I love Japanese food. I own a bento box and can make some Japanese dishes.

I love Japanese culture and fashion. I read blogs, books and magazines about pop culture in Japan. (English and Japanese)
I keep up with news and current events in Japan.

I've read several works of Japanese literature (Tale of Genji, Akutagawa Ryunosuke, Chuushingura, Murakami etc. etc.)

Most of the music on my ipod is in Japanese. It's not like I have anything against other music it just happens to be that way.

I studied abroad in Japan for one year.
I hope to go back to work there after I graduate.

Oh yeah and I'm Caucasion.

I don't idealize Japan as some utopia where the streets are paved with manga. It has it's own problems just like any other country.

I think the word weeaboo is sort of thrown around too much...how many people actually want to become Japanese? I think that number, if it exists at all, is very, very low.
I've never met one, and I'm in both of the anime clubs at school and have been to several cons.
If they're annoying and constantly throwing random Japanese words into conversations... who cares? They're just teens having their fun and they'll probably grow out of it before high school ends.
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