Forum - View topic"Anime Decline"?
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wahr
Posts: 8 |
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So.. I met with someone today and had one of those long, drawn out discussions on why certain major anime houses have been utterly collapsing.
I'm a veteran fan, have been with the genre so long college kids could call me "jiji", and I have some ideas (i'll get more specific than simply "global economic collapse", just assume it's a given condition) First off... it's a reality that unauthorized online distribution will take a chunk out of dvd sales, but this has always been around in one way or another, through vcr's and sneaker net. The collapse of the global economy has probably pushed more people into this realm though who would prefer to be otherwise. This doesn't change the fact that the industry is catering too much to the hard core elitists. Note: this is different from hard-core fans. Merchandising, a much more massive part of the anime industry than most movie productions, is a gold mine. The problem is the obsession with "limited run". The US versions of limited runs are usually only slightly different from the standard unit.. enough to make it special without shutting out average buyers. Most japanese limited runs have no generic version. This means fans who don't live a NEET lifestyle, and must take their time absorbing series, will go to market to find they are unable to purchase what they seek. Excellent example: I recently had to decorate my new cube at work, I had finally gotten around to watching aria, a franchise which was active until 2008 (fairly recent in the grand scheme of things), and was interested in getting a couple figures. Nothin doing. While you can still easily get figures for the matrix, an american franchise now older than dirt by comparison, figures for this series, which retailed for roughly 7,000 yen, are now on the second hand market, IF YOU CAN FIND THEM AT ALL, for almost 20,000. At the very least, that's 7,000 yen in revenue LOST to the production house, and earned by some rotten scalper somewhere. Another would be a set of models for the nadesico naval vessels. These are something a true mecha fiend would have a real interest in, and they are associated with a platinum level classic title recognized worldwide. The only releases for these were in wonderfest(?) in 1999 and 2009. They can not be found at any price at this point.. god knows how many millions in lost world-wide revenue. The point is: Merchandising is not being given it's chance to help an industry facing revenue issues in a tough economy and the era of infinite information. Why, because they're sucking up too much to the ultra-hardcore demographic which wants to feel special by saying "i have something you can't get, ever". The prices my research have turned up are not adequate enough to recover the revenues lost by these limited runs. oh well, i've said my spiel... this is fundamental mismanagement. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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A valid observation and I do believe there's some truth to this statement. Unfortunately, and this is only my observation, merchandise doesn't move well here and because of this, the better merchandise never seems to arrive. Your example of Aria is perfect! By the time all the seasons were released, any figures and other merchandise was gone (and I really wanted the toy Aria Company setting!!!!). Even stores which ship from Japan were completely sold out. However, asking local merchants to take a chance (remember that merchandise and locally distributed anime are separated by months and/or years) probably isn't in their best interest when other things are slow to move. One has to remember those tentpole titles are exactly those, and retailers jump on board in order to cash in while they can. Walmart will carry Pokemon, One Piece, Naruto, and Dragonball merchandise but when was there a time any other non-tentpole title merchandise was carried? I can't recall a single one. Even Cowboy Bebop failed to have models and merchandise sold in retail stores at the height of its popularity. Finally, there are a very, very few number of importers who specialize in anime merchandise. AAA Anime is the largest, and this speaks volumes when others aren't even considered competitors. Most retailers buy directly from AAA Anime simply because trying to establish a relationship overseas is tedious, if not impossible. Side note: don't ever look at the prices of anime at AAA Anime. It'll make your eyes bleed to see how much markup there is on those plastic figures. I wish there were merchandise as well, a bit lower in cost, but sadly, it's just not going to happen. Just look at the offerings at TRSI and RACS. Some of those figures have been there so long, I think they're reproducing to create the Lucky Star figures. |
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wahr
Posts: 8 |
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who says local merchants need to take a chance?
this is about generating revenue for the production houses themselves. the more direct they make it the better. They don't even have to keep much inventory on hand, they do have the moulds and material after all. machines used for this type of casting are highly modular. Ideally it could be done like a custom t-shirt. Once initial inventory runs out, you can order another for the price of an extra 2 week wait and a 10% reproduction fee to cover any extra marginal cost involved. The most important thing though: MAKE GENERIC VERSIONS for limited items, so the hordes have access to at least something to sate them, while the elitists can say "this one has a gold fitting, see? it's one of only 100". |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Part of it is that the diversity in anime and the quality as a whole has been dropping the past few years. Interviews with those in the industry and comments out of Japan itself have indicated this decline, often manifesting itself through a lot of cookie cutter shows that are creatively bankrupt. It's somewhat similar to what US television went through in the late 80s and early-mid 90's when family sitcoms made up half of what was on the air and they were all nearly the same thing until shows like "X-Files" started showing up to demonstrate other types of shows can work too. Hopefully anime will also encounter a similar renaissance.
As for fansubs, the problem is you're always going to have freeloaders. They use excuses and always have to justify what they do when confronted, but the reality is even when those are fixed they'll just find some other excuse. Still, the industry isn't completely free of guilt either. The sad fact of the matter is that if these companies didn't take so long to license and release shows, they'd probably manage more sales in the end. When you have to wait years for something to come out that's already available in Japan then every day of that delay is going to result in lost sales potential as people will simply watch the fansubs and have moved on by the time the anime hits the shelves. I'm personally for buying and supporting the industry, but the industry really needs to try harder and move faster because they're simply not producing a product on a reasonable timeline to compete and satisfy the market. My favorite series is "Eureka 7", so I'll use this show as an example. The first US DVD wasn't released until several weeks after the final episode of its 50 episode run had been broadcast in Japan. So right from the very beginning with episode 1 I was already way behind Japan as I was only starting and they had already finished a full 50 episode series. It then took another 2 years before the series was released in its entirety, finally releasing the final DVD three years after the show had begun. Some shows have even longer waits, and with the level of communication out there these days fans are going to know about these shows whether they're licensed yet or not, and they'll seek them out any way they can. Until the industry starts coming up with releases that don't force US audiences to wait a year or more then I'm afraid they're just going to fight a losing battle. We can talk about costs and pricing and rights and all of that crap until we're blue in the face, but as far as I'm concerned it's these ridiculous timetables that threaten the industry more than anything. |
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SousouNY
 Posts: 1 Location: NYC |
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I'm a bit confused here, this decline in the anime industry is not indicating a drop in the popularity of anime shows, right?
There's still more and more anime fans all the time, they just happen to like shows that are declining in quality, is that right? |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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I would like to say I agree with most of the opinions mentioned here. However it's really not worth stressing over. Even if Anime flops human creativity is a constant something else will come to fill the demand it created. That being said I see this as a temporary lul. The studios will eventually clue on that there is a market for quality. The only thing I think could crack the Industry permanently is if one company got creative control of most of the output. Much like EA is attempting in Gaming. If that happens anime be produced to sell and lost all artistic integrity. IF that happens well it was a wild ride but I will live =)
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I could ask why you feel that is important, so very important, as the umm crowd you are referring to doesn't really care about official speed either (1 hour after broadcast for some simulcasts) In one case even justifying leaks within it (like say doays or weeks early leaks...) So this "They are not releasing it fast enough" while certainly an issue is also another excuse given for something frankly they would have been able to do anyways, which is discuss the series (or it's themes as so far my actual anime series discussions I've participated in, I myself have personally not seen them.) In this case with your example why is that you feel it's important that Japan has finished a series where you, if following everything legally, would be starting at episode 1? It seems that the series is still there and your enjoyment and more importantly the general anime community would still be there, for whatever you have to say and is still as entertaining. Also surely you haven't seen every anime series available to you legally, let alone those within that group that would actually be of interest to you. So we are behind? So what, not only is the delay between the release in Japan and the release here shorter, we are, in attempt to grow the market, expanding into new ways of doing and selling anime. Now hopefully there is some series that are worth those efforts... instead of what we mostly have now... |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I don't have an issue with it for the most part. However, when other people are running around talking about the next great series it is sometimes difficult to resist the temptation to find out what all the buzz is about. However, it still effects me due to the speed as it gets quite annoying waiting months between DVDs and taking two years to watch a single series that was aired in Japan in half that time.
Plus, just because I watch anime legally most of the time and am cool waiting, that doesn't mean I'm incapable of recognizing the problem as it effects others. Like it or not some people are impatient, and even a fan that is willing to buy is going to be less likely to buy a series they saw two years ago and has since moved past. I'm not saying it's going to fix the piracy problem, but I think it's a bit foolish to believe it has no impact. Sure, it's just an excuse to some, but to others it's still a legitimate gripe that I frankly agree with. Like it or not the world is now heavily interconnected. If there's a fanbase for Japanese animation then it's virtually impossible to keep word of what's being put out there away from the fans here. To expect those fans to then sit around and twiddle their thumbs for a year or longer when there is easily the capability to bring it over in a more reasonable length of time is a sure fire way to motivate them to find another means. The whole "shut up and wait" might work in a world with light communication, but in an interconnected world the word is going to get out, and when it's out you better start delivering or the fans will do it themselves. I don't approve of piracy, but honestly the current model is out of date and doesn't work in a world such as ours. You can't just do things in an inefficient manner and expect the consumers to just suck it up. The consumers need to support the industry, yes, but the industry needs to support them in return and there's a lot of room for improvement there. |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I agree that it is an issue but like many things it is part of a more complex whole, telling a company to release faster in face of the rising costs of digital content http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2010/07/28/delusions-illusions-and-the-costs-of-digital-publishing/
And seriously when you have now the advent of digital streaming and it's not fast enough now and when you have to you know deal with other people who may have different demands, goals, and standards you think maybe slow downs will occur. See in your example, seeing as how this was a Bandai title, your Japanese side of the equation say "Do this" , so then your in the position of either negotiating down from that or walking, without loosing face or burning bridges. So a simple they should release faster is more complicated than it's simpleness suggests. In addition the anime has enough consumers, one can say too many consumers, but what it needs are customers that are putting money into the system some way. As there is a difference between consumer and customer and they should never be used interchangeably. So when you are falling to the impatience of others even though now it will likely get to most of them legally, and quickly (through streaming) what else is left that can be done to "go faster" without making really big mistakes? (As it is known that when you speed up a process, more chances for error occur.) As to interconnectedness yes, but are we truly listening or is this just a bunch of noise? As right now it's more of the Age of Echo Chamber and Ignorance than it is Information... |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Well, based on my experience in buying figures, I've not yet seen any website that sells its good directly to consumers, especially foreign customers.
I'm not sure what you mean by production houses.
I don't know if I can agree with this. Not only do I not see any buy direct options from manufacturer websites (most link to retailers... go figure (pun!)), but no way do I believe these companies are going to turn themselves into retailers while holding stock. It's a nice idea, but it's very unrealistic.
True, but production runs are not modular, and this is why the idea has faults. Don't forget, many of these companies make more than just pretty girls. Schedules dictate when runs occurs, as well as market demand. There's now a growing trend to use pre-ordering (in Japan, no less) to dictate the production runs. If a certain number isn't met, the production gets canceled and no amount of "ease of making" will change this. It still costs money to produce the run.
Silk screening is in no way comparative to figure production, wahr. Figures require injection molds to be created, painting, assembly, quality control, and packaging and that's just the basics!
This makes no sense at all. Do you understand the process on what it takes to design, manufacture, and approve a figure? This industry is very lucrative to the point manufacturers are now in the planning stage. By the time the series airs, you can bet the figures are ready to go. Oh, and these are the generic figures. It's the special ones which can get the most coinage and those take even longer to produce. Believe me, I like your idea, I just don't see any feasible way to make it happen. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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They can be used interchangeably to an extent. Every customer is a consumer but not every consumer is a customer. The goal here should be focusing on how to turn anime consumers into customers. Many consumers want digital products quickly. These people are looking for almost any avenue to meet their needs. Errors will occur regardless of the speed of the process. Meet the consumers needs and turn them into customers. It is a simple concept. |
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Sheleigha
 Posts: 1674 |
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It's just a difficult thing to try to accomplish, as simple as the idea is... |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Well yeah it is harder than it sounds.
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Sheleigha
Posts: 1674 |
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Which brings us back to square 1...
I've always been curious, that if more people DID actually purchause items worldwide, if it would be enough to fund more to create new shows? Of course, Japan makes up a HUGE amount of sales, but it is only one small country. I do believe if more people purchaused more, thus showing that it is generated from popularity, if it would help out? I've noticed a trend of niche JRPGs getting localized in North America and Europe, and making up a large portion of worldwise sales, compared to Japan (which in fact, sometimes is MORE even in North America alone!) This shows, that people do WANT these niche titles elsewhere in the world. Thus, not only will it localize more games in different languages, but give the original Japanese companies something to work with, showing what people want, and that they will in fact, purchause it. Purchausing is, what drives people to CREATE such things in the first place (for the most part). This, is ultimately why I think pirating hurts. Not only for the localizations, but the root itself. For example, (using another JRPG) the PSP game Dissidia: Final Fantasy had 5 times as more pirated copies than purchaused ( and I'm sure it's probably the same for most titles anyways). So, since it shows that it didn't sell, maybe as well as hoped, does that dissolve a chance of ever getting to see a possible sequel? Maybe it was just a game people didn't like, thus didn't make sales. But if you think about it, if there were enough fans of the game, hope for a sequel is lost, because the sales numbers did underperform... Therefore, fewer sales causes no newer games under a title or franchise... It IS a curiosity... These are things I wonder about and am curious about at times... |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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That I'm sorry is misinformed, partially, you certainly can be someones customer without ever being a consumer. While yes we often imagine that a customer will use a product they buy this isn't always the case and fall outside of the definition of a customer, which is someone who buys. It also stands that one can be a consumer without ever buying anything, as a consumer is someone who uses, someone who consumes, so please do not use them interchangeably, it's bad business to confuse them. And let's be quite frank a demands of a customer and the demands of a consumer are very different. A consumer is someone that consumes, as such the qualities they would look for would be more to meet those demands, a customer wants a product worth buying. In this case, and we have seen it, a consumer doesn't really care too much, they just want to consume. So imagine the qualities that a customer would look for versus the qualities a consumer will look for and then remember that a customer will pay you and is cheaper to retain in terms of Return on Investment than say acquiring a new customer by converting a sole consumer into a productive customer (It's usually cheaper to retain existing customers that to acquire new ones, and when acquiring new customers the Return on Investment has to be higher than the money you are spending to get them) (...right now anime fans have priced themselves for the most part so high that it may be unattainable... which imagining the rock and the hard place we helped put them in, makes it such that it is hard to imagine if the online initiatives fail, which is still a very real possibility... at the very least convincing other to use those and stop apologizing for what more "toxic" elements do, would be a start to move forward. As we talk about how we can move things, how about actually trying it?" |
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