Forum - View topicKodomo no Jikan (TV).
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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Kodomo no Jikan: I finished it just recently, and in the process did a few web searches and learned of all the controversy.
This is not an anime that should be on anyone's "greatest anime" list, but I think it is a shame that it was effectively banned for the western market as indecent. It should get credit for tackling an admittedly delicate topic and coming up with a reasonably entertaining "feel good" story where everyone comes out a winner. Also, I discovered that part of the fun is speculating at how "realistic" it is. Is it believable that a 3rd grader would actually proposition her teacher that way? I have seen girls that age having crushes like that, but to go that far? How about threatening a teacher? Whatever the verdict on that, I found that the teacher Aoki-sensei's responses (and ultimate resolution) to be fully believable. Anyone else feel the same way? |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Yes I definitely agree this title both in manga and anime form have gotten the cold shoulder from North American audiences, simply because of the subject material. Classical literature has been hailed for tackling sensitive subjects like this, why not pop culture? Critics and society in general don't see possible a forum for social enlightenment about controversial things within the realm of animation and comics, and at the same time providing light hearted entertainment.
We can assume, in real life things as portrayed in KnJ do happen. Responses to real life situations like that tend to mirror our attitudes about the fictional version: We try to do as much as possible to pretend it doesn't / didn't happen rather than being open and reflecting on ordeals with others. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15595 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I agree that it is really good and that it is a big shame that people to stay away from it because of the controversy. I think there actually was discussion maybe a couple months ago which had some people giving KnJ a god, and many said it was no nearly as bad as they were lead to belive.
Some of my favourite parts is it's tackelling of hard or taboo subjects, like I think it is episode 6 which got emotional and has left a good impression on me. I think it spoiler[kind of changed what I thought of the prosprect of cousins loving each other, and regards to age.] The OVAs also include some other things including the teacher who is always getting angry, and her story actually made her one of my favourite characters in the show. |
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Skylark
 Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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I thought the controversy surrounding this series was completely overblown too. I have a blue card for teaching guitar to minors, and I have one particular little girl student who took to trying to sit in my lap when we sit down to work on rhythms. Thus the teacher's frustrations and awkwardness somewhat mirrored my own (although obviously KnJ went much farther than my hyperactive guitar student) and I found the series at least _somewhat_ relative in that regard.
It also somewhat reflects the diminished rights teachers are getting these days, both in terms of how close they can get to their students and also how able they are to discipline them. I think it's funny that western audiences are being denied this series when it points out several flaws in the system that our education departments and regulations have tried ignoring for a while (well, at least in Australia). Teachers are almost getting treated these days as though they are pedophiles or child abusers in the making. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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As nice as it is to see other people who enjoy the show, I think you're trivializing the amount of fanservice present. It makes it a little more difficult to take the message seriously that Rin is maladjusted and needs more familial love when so frequently she's presented in lascivious outfits are mimicking sex acts. There's a fine line between being comfortable with sexuality, and exploiting it, and KnJ crosses that line a fair bit more than I'd like.
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hockey stick
Posts: 15 |
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I also enjoyed this show and even though it's a bit controversial it still has depth. As I see it, some of Rins behavior is a bit edgy to say the least, but there's more to it than just fan service. Like any kid she wants attention, because of her crush on Aoki but also spoiler[due to her family situation]. Like previous posters have mentioned the show also pinpoints some of the issues teachers do/may have to deal with, like where and how do you draw the line etc.
I think it'd be wrong to judge this show solely on the controversial bits; kind'a like when Fox News gave people the impression that Mass Effect was some sort of sex simulator due to one single scene. |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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After having watched a couple of episodes of this to see what all the fuss is about. I can definately see where people get weirded out by this show nevertheless I did not find it as horrifying as it is hyped up to be. And underneath the admittedly relentless and slightly disturbing fanservice is a social study that few would touch with a barge pole. I had to give them credit for having the guts to do that. I will probably finish the show if only to see what conclusions they reach.
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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I had the same impression after the first few episodes, but then I thought that the fanservice actually serves a purpose other than the obvious prurient cheap thrill. It gives you a chance to identify with what Aoki is going through. His conflict is between the animal instinct part of him that actually responds to Rin's crude overtures against what he knows his duties as a sensei or, for that matter, just as a decent adult, are. Yet there is a gratuitous part as well. What is the point of seeing Rin's panties in the scene where she is alone, practicing her kissing with her teddy bear? (I've known girls that have done that.) I wouldn't trivialize that -- just point out that it really wasn't necessary to the story. You have to suspect that they are trying to snare the pedo-yen but it is not really that great of infraction. Thanks for your comment. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I emphasized a very, very important element to this discussion.
Which is why this comment blows my mind. Imagine for a second if you reworded the above to:
Yeah, chances are you wouldn't have that blue card very long if any parent caught you with a little girl on your lap while giving lessons. I've no problems with the visual representations given within the first episode. My problem is Aoki's decision to ignore those situations and allow the problems to escalate. I find it audacious people think Aoki's inaction is due to "OMG! WTF?!" mind-blowing feelings over a 3rd grade girl. At the very least, the guy should have pulled away his finger and said "No!". Instead, what we're given is a blatant pandering to the "what if" scenario in which some viewers may want to find themselves in through fantasy. While I trust there are some who can separate reality from fiction, it seems this line gets more obscure and a series like this sets an incredibly bad precedence against those who find having a relationship with a pillow far exceeds one with a real woman. Thankfully (or rather hopefully), these people will never be in the position to surround themselves with 3rd grade girls. Because had I been Kokonoe's father and seen what Aoki failed to do as a respected teacher, I'd kick his ass so hard, he'd wish he'd pulled his finger from her mouth.
I could have seen this awkwardness and frustration as well if KnJ didn't take it so far as to be completely unrealistic. The controversy is well deserved.
Aoki had no reason to discipline Kokonoe but he most certainly had an obligation to report the behavior immediately, which he failed to do on so many occasions that I've no choice to believe he is a pedophile. Note: the shirtless Kokonoe dream sequence sure as hell blew this "awkward and frustrating" position right the hell out of the water, thus ending any reason to finish this series beyond episode 1 for me.
Back in the 80s, the media thought it was best to take the role of parents and began throwing PSA messages within highly popular series aimed at kids. The results were nothing short of disastrous, ensuring media will never again use this tactic and leave the decisions to those more qualified. So much so, they'll ban any reference to a child relationship in an adult world. The disastrous results? An explosive increase of accusations.
To make matters worse, there are those out there who exploit this by creating a series titled Kodomo no Jikan, in which the very male lead does exactly the wrong thing to instill this pedophile fear-mongering now happening (I'm sure Chris Hanson would love to have 10 minutes of camera time with Daisuke Aoki). My opinion is this: Watashiya's portrayal of Kokonoe isn't about coming of age. It's taking advantage of the growth in manga and anime featuring the usage of young (looking) girls. |
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Haterater
 Posts: 1736 |
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Only know of the manga. I just feel as though the story can still be strong and stand on its own without pandering with the fanservice to those types. The bar of entry is just too high thanks to that, and thus many will not take it seriously or lash out against it. And sadly, its this type of fanservice that makes the money and has to be continued.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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At one point in the series, Aoki makes a dedicated effort to speak to all of his students' parents about not just their progress in class, but their general well-being and home life. Every single one of them rejects his offer. When he talks to the more senior teachers about this, they confirm that teachers aren't expected to do anything more than fill the little kiddies heads with useful knowledge. The implication is that teachers are supposed to ignore raising attention regarding social problems students may be having, because it brings negative attention to all parties involved. It's similar to Japan's problems with bullying in school, everyone acts like it's not a problem and hope it goes away. Aoki doesn't go to anyone else for help because there isn't anyone else who would help him. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Did this discussion cover the sexual advances of their daughters?
So now he's but no choice other than to fantasize over a girl in the 3rd grade? I simply can not find any excuse on the planet for this type of behavior. High school girls are one thing, but we're in the territory of elementary school girls. Moreso, in my 43 years of life in the United States (re: not Japan), never have I heard a story of a 3rd grade girl being as sexually promiscuous as Kokonoe is within the story. Crushes aren't the same thing as spoiler["I'd like to blow you, sensei."] (hidden for vulgarity). Make no mistake: I've no problem with people enjoying this series. I stated in other threads they're much stronger than I am at tolerating this material. I don't believe it should be banned. But I just can't take it for the purposely over-the-top handling of the situations pandering to a girl in the 3rd grade. Call me weak if you want, but that's just how it is. I should also point out the episode I watched was the censored version as discovered later through discussions. I don't even want to imagine what the hell it was I missed out on with the mindset the uncensored version left me with. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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Nor, I would bet (but don't know) would anything in his formal training teach him what to do in those situations he is put into by Kokonoe. He is so inexperienced that even Rin's caustic friend pegs him as a "virgin" from the get-go. PJ above pointed out the mistakes he made and I too was frustrated by that -- but if the character weren't making those mistakes there wouldn't have been much story, would there? And I think it was pretty artful that they paced it and picked their scenes so that it never got too far out of hand but enough to trigger a discussion like this. At that level it works. Just think if all the Aoki-sans out there had a chance to see this anime before the first day they stepped into a class to teach would they be better equipped to handle such a situation? There is no way I can prove it but I suspect so. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15595 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I also had the feeling that if Aoki tried to make light of the issues he had with Rin, everyone would point the finger at him and say he seduced her or something. I am not sure if it looked like he was totally falling for her in the first episode, but Rin is pretty messed up, and Aoki tries his best to try and help her. He even meets her guardian, he pretty much is greeted with nothing but suspision, and lets just say that he himself has got a few issues (Aoki is nothing in comparison).
I think there is also the point that Aoki is completley unprepared for a lot of things. One he finds pretty quickly is what should he do when one of the students has "developed" so much, should he leave it despite her being in pain, or try to help but put himself under scruteny. Should he reluctently go along with the dangerous hijinx, or should he act in a way that could scare off someone who really needs help. |
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Shichimi
 Posts: 349 |
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But Aoki's a teacher, not a social worker. He should absolutely have persisted in talking to his colleagues about the situation. I have no idea how things work in Japanese schools, obviously, but in the UK there are staff who deal exclusively with the emotional wellbeing of students. That's his point of contact right there.
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