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Katanagatari (TV).


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24192
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:25 pm Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Actually further discussion has made me think more about the latest one, and on the series itself. Katanagatari might appear like a fighting sword anime, but I think it is not...


Exactly so. I think I've said this before, but I see Katanagatari as a comedic deconstruction of an adventure show. Its purpose is not to thrill and chill you with kickass action sequences. It is to pull apart all the elements that go into a standard adventure show and lovingly take the piss out of them. That's why, for example, Togame and Shichika have a lengthy (and to me, hilarious) discussion about the importance of coming up with a cool catchphrase in eppie 2. That's the creator of the show winking at us and saying, in effect, "We know that in these type of shows the hero always needs a signature catchphrase that he will utter at key moments, so let's have a little fun with that idea."

That's also why in eppie 3, Loud Mouth Ninja Guy spoiler[gets cut down so quickly by a woman who isn't even wielding a sword. It's not an innovative joke by any stretch of the imagination, but it's that standard thing of an evil guy acting all tough and what he thinks is cool and then a nano-second later- poof! he's dead.] To assume that stuff like that happens because the creators are trying to save money on animation or simply didn't have the chops to come up with something else is so far off the mark as to be laughable.

Let's face it, if what's going on in Katanagatari is going 30,000 feet over your pointy head, of course you're not going to like it. And naturally, it wouldn't be enough to merely state your objections in a reasonable tone - nah, where's the dipshittery in that? So of course you have to act like a patronizing dick to anybody who doesn't share your rarified taste and who actually - gasp! - likes the show.

Same old, same old.
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SoandSo



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Hentai_JP wrote:
Katanagatari can hardly be considered as action show so complaining about the lack of thereof I find to be rather silly. And Blood-, kudos to you for defending Katana... some people just love to bitch about show for being what it is (like slice of life series not having enough action and so on) or openly insult intelligence of others who actually like the said show. ADD? Very well might be, as dropping the show without crapping all over it and it's fans is simply not their style.

As for third episode - very enjoyable. I find it to be slightly better than first two as we finally see more than just Shichika & Togame dialogue, meaningless at times, for nearly entire episodes. The bandit queen is a rather interesting character, was she trying to repent for her crimes, well she chose an interesting way and method to do that. Love Shichika's attitude to killing. It's just his, well, job.

Quote:
RahXephon: half-baked pile of NGE Lite crap.


Now I absolutely HAVE to see it just so I can, in turn, bitch about it.


Oh Jesus, that's just sad. Ok, Hentai, here were my points:

Quote:
It's easily the most interesting of the set-ups so far, and without spoiling too much, it actually introduced some intruiging consequences and implications if they were to win(which, of course, they do.) It's just too bad it doesn't go anywhere; they win, the shrine maidens having all but vanished since the fight got underway, and it all gets brushed aside without any of the consequences for taking the swords being shown.

Talking(and badly shoehorned-in backstory) in the fight, that boring, unsatisfying fight.

Show, don't Tell: LEARN. IT. Those bits where that one maiden freaked out on Togame, or when they warmed just ever-so-slightly to Shichika when he helped with chores? Those were good and explained more, faster and were much more entertaining than endless conversations could ever hope to be. There needs to be more of that.

(and more of this) The blabber, while still mostly skip-worthy, does finally have some meat to chew into in the form of some Bakemono-esque metahumor on the subject of character desgin and storytelling tropes. At one point, Togame, who's writing a diary chronicling their journey, berates Shichika for how dull and lifeless his character is, how the ninja chasing them stand out much more(though she admits it's mostly due to trying way too hard) and browbeats him into adopting a witty catchphrase to compensate. It's no Ouran(PHONY!!!), but it's clever, insightful and kindasorta funny before it too wears out its welcome.


And there was you missing them, by at least three dozen AUs. I'm trying reaaaal hard to stay civil(if passionate and snarky) and not break rules by being flat out insulting, but geez. Fans: it's like they want you to laugh at them.

I'm not naturally, automatically averse to dialogue-heavy shows, I just hate when the dialogue is constant, boring, unfunny, rarely substantial, drags on forever, contributes nothing and there's nothing else to it. Death Note, the latter half of Eva, etc are CONSTANT blabber, but not only is there substance to what's being said, but they know how to sell it, so to speak. They remember that they're still animation, not audiobooks with cartoon illustrations, and keep you interesting with the art, cinemotography and so on.

I don't care that the fights aren't the focus, either, though when each episode devotes its final third to the damn things, it's stupid to argue they don't matter. My issue with them is again, too much talking, and if they don't care about the fihts enough to put effort into them, why strecth them so thin? Since the dialogue is clearly the draw for you, wouldn't you rather they just get them out of the way so they can get to more of that?

It's not that I hate this show for what it is, au contraire, I came into it wanting to love it. It's just plainly, clearly bad at what it is, and could inarguably do what it does much, MUCH better.


Quote:
Quote:
RahXephon: half-baked pile of NGE Lite crap.


Now I absolutely HAVE to see it just so I can, in turn, bitch about it.


Yes, because tripping over yourself to badmouth something I like out of butthurt spite doesn't make you look like a total retard AT ALL. Oh geez, now look what you went and made me do. And I was doing so well. ;-;
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15578
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Hmm interesting point, the series actualy points out what it is doing. The whole "lets make a catchphrase" is one, other are like "fall for me", "how can you store a sword like that", and"psychological attack failed".
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Hentai_JP



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Toronto, ON
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:48 pm Reply with quote
I have read your post before writing mine "Sparky". You have some points I won't deny that (or rather I should've made that clear in first place) but all your following posts are either flaming, insulting or attempts to pass your previous posts as "discussion" where the only post you ever put any discussion into was your original one (and the one you wrote to reply to me). You simply don't stop hating and insult others, who actually like the show, while you are at it.

Btw I don't think Katanagatari is a masterpiece. It's a good show in my books, and I enjoy it at that level.
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SoandSo



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:04 am Reply with quote
Hentai_JP wrote:
I have read your post before writing mine "Sparky". You have some points I won't deny that (or rather I should've made that clear in first place) but all your following posts are either flaming, insulting or attempts to pass your previous posts as "discussion" where the only post you ever put any discussion into was your original one (and the one you wrote to reply to me). You simply don't stop hating and insult others, who actually like the show, while you are at it.

Btw I don't think Katanagatari is a masterpiece. It's a good show in my books, and I enjoy it at that level.


My only following posts were debates with you and Mister V(and boy do I love arguing on critical examination FYI, not sarcasm), laughing at Egoisit's ridiculous affront to having debate in a discussion thread, and playing back and forth with Blood-. If any of the latter came off as flaming or insulting to you or him, I apologise; I was just having fun in those posts. That kind of thing's easy to miss when you take nothing personally.

Eh, OT and exams tommorow. Bedtime.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2175
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:17 am Reply with quote
I thought the premise was cool but I didn't really like the first episode. Almost everyone talks at a rapid fire pace and monologues, which I can only take so much of. Luckily the main guy doesn't say too much so it's not nonstop rocket blabbering.

I think I will give it another episode before calling it quits.

Also, LOL @ the OP. I think most people have computers that can handle resolutions above 640x480. It sucks if you can't but I'm glad they release it. My laptop is hooked up to my HDTV and the show looks beautiful. I hope they don't change a single thing.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:21 am Reply with quote
Yeah, I came back from work to find another two pages added to the thread and I was surprised. But then I looked over those two pages, and was appalled at the quality of most of the posts. I know that I didn't exactly help things with that Lupin 3rd allusion, but that was in jest. The recent posts have NOT been in jest and were NOT gentle ribbing, and they have gotten quite vicious. I can tell you for a fact that no matter what your opinions about Katanagatari are, any more seemingly mean-spirited posts WILL be reported by me as soon as I see them.

And before anyone protests, I don't care. I will not have this thread locked because of people being cruel, vicious and rude.



Edit: this thread is also not a chat room, which is the vibe I was getting for some of the exchanges.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24192
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:49 am Reply with quote
Well, dtm42, assuming you can hear me way up there on your high horse, you can help the tenor of discussion in this and other threads by mitigating your irritating style of criticizing a show you don't like. Why not - just as an experiment - state your objections in a manner not calculated to annoy somebody who doesn't share your opinion? Also, you have stated that you intend to stay in this thread to the bitter end no matter what despite the fact that there is obviously plenty about Katangatari that you don't like. Do you not realize that is bound to antagonize some of us? I'm not sure how deep your self-awareness runs - I'm guessing not particularly so - but there are a number of us at ANN who consider you kind of a loud mouthed jerk, so to see you lecturing people is a little rich.
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tarheel91



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 128
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:04 pm Reply with quote
Ignoring the troll (I refuse to be caught like Blood+), I'll post my thoughts on the most recent episode.

Katanagatari is no Bakemonogatari. That's for sure. It's not bad, though, by any means. I feel like this show has some really great moments and scenes, but it doesn't maintain that quality throughout the entire show. I loved the scene on the steps, and finally getting to see "I'll have you fall for me." The fact that they use the ironic catch phrases all the time is hilarious.

Next week looks to have a bit more badassery in it, though. I would hope so, considering we're supposed to be meeting the strongest swordsman in all of Japan.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:41 pm Reply with quote
I reported your post, Blood-. I don't know what the Moderator will do; maybe they'll do nothing, or just give you a warning. But I just wanted to make it clear (not just to you but to everyone) that I won't tolerate that sort of behaviour anymore.
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Be not afraid. The forest nymphs have taught me how to lock a thread.

Until you learn to debate like grown-ups, this thread is taking a break.

- abunai
Y'know, you're both idiots.
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:38 pm Reply with quote
After slightly more than a month in timeout, this thread is now unlocked , so that discussion can continue again.

Make that intelligent, polite, and even-tempered discussion, please, or it gets relocked.

- abunai
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Hentai_JP



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Toronto, ON
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:44 pm Reply with quote
Thank you abunai. Does it mean you follow this series too? You've unlocked it just in time as it aired two days ago and subs just came out today.

Episode 4.

Well, that was shall I say "surprising"? Nanami is the devil herself! I honestly did not expect such a turn of events. Is she the final boss? If that happens to be true it's going to be awesome to watch.

I also love the way she "fixed" Shichika's bad habit of biting fingernails... so when she later threatens to punish Shichika for being slow I felt chills run down my spine. Really, can't wait to see more of her.

As for the rest of it: same amount of dialogue of varying quality. I did not need to know the bond and future plans for three guys who exist only to die a few minutes later. It's just an attempt to make scenes more dramatic - that doesn't work on me (and I am sure I am not alone). Also, didn't last episode's preview show the fight with white-hair guy? Shichika and Togame apparently won, but none of the actual battle was shown... I wonder when we'll see it.

PS: Previews can't be trusted!
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24192
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:06 pm Reply with quote
Yes, thanks very much, abunai. Loved eppie 4! Nanami is officially the Scariest Chick in Japan. The Insect Squad cracked me up. NisiOisin clearly had a ton of fun messing around with standard adventure story/samurai/ninja tropes. This continues to be a vastly amusing and entertaining series for me.
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Mister V



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:15 pm Reply with quote
Yan-yanservice. Niiice.

The sister turned out to be scary, who knew. Oh it was in a way predictable, but not to the All Your Powers Combined extent. That's not just over 9000, she must be the traditional version of Saikano.

So the fight was not a focus, eh... I guess we won't see much fighting at all, except the last boss battle (if there is one).

And thank you for reopening the thread.
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