Forum - View topicANN Book Club -- Gankutsuou
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OldCharlieStoletheHandle
 Posts: 1288 Location: Mastic Beach, NY |
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After episode 8 I had a feeling Villefort was first on the Count's list for ome real vengeace; his daughter is in a coma, his wife is in the madhouse, and now he will be the first to directly confront the Count. Somehow I don't see this working out well for Villefort.
We also get another new character, Caderousse. Interesting how often the plans of the high and mighty end up dependent on the likes of Caderousse. Why did he wait all this time to blackmail the General, I wonder? (Also, maybe it's me, but the design of this character looks odd, as if he wandered in from an Edward Gorey cartoon.) As for Albert, there is no missing that, as his running tearfully into the Count's arms shows, his life is firmly in the Count's grasp. Albert has been separated from his family and his friends, so who else can he turn to? Meanwhile, the Count is also beginning to sow discord among the main conspirators by manipulating Danglars into breaking the engagement of Eugenie and Albert because of "rumors" concerning Fernand Moncref; no doubt the Count wants to be sure they don't combine forces against him. As for the schedule, I have no probem. Actually I have been holding back; if I were just watching this normally I probably would have finished it already. |
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Prede
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It wasn't like it hurt my eyes, instead it gave me a HUGE headache, and made my stomach a little upset. I felt kinda queasy. It also felt like my head was spinning and I was dizzy. It's such a terrible feeling. I could only watch like an episode at a time. After I stopped watching it I got better real fast, but still. But after seeing a handfull of episopes (over a period of time) it got better. I get "used to it" (either that or they cut back on the weird motiony pattern stuff as the episodes go on, or both). But I totally have to have the lights on and sit FAR away from the screen. You should try this if the show bothers you, it works for me. I think I reached the point where I just get a little dizzy from watching it and nothing else, but have to have the lights on. With no I feel sick again a little. Watching on my computer is a big no-no, as I'm way to close and I feel terrible. I do wonder if this is connected though. The reason the both of us find this so painful to watch. I am perfectly alright with video games, all other anime and movies, even virtual reality stuff (the stuff at DisneyWorld etc). This show is the only thing to make me feel like this. I LOVE the visuals, but only in still shots! It looks amazing, but I'm glad Gonzo never did this again. Anyway...sorry for being mega late with this one. But here's my comments on episodes 5-8. Episode 5 I find it interesting that they (the Count and his people) "stopped bothering with money haveway trhough the construction of his house". What does that mean exactly? They stole stuff? They paid off enough people that they got the rest for free? It's very odd... One question that I thought of while watching this episode is "Why is Haydee (The Count's Mistress) so devoted to the Count?" She seems to do whatever he wishes, and not care much about anything else. He must have really done something good for her in the past. Also in this episode I don't get why Maximilien (who is incredbly anoying) and Albert fight. This scene felt kind of stupid too me. So faw I mark it as the one and only flaw of the series. It seemed to be there only to be dramatic, not for the story or the characters. It was also kind of pointless and just didn't make much sense. The fight came out of nowhere. Look I know Maximilien loves Valentine, but still this was sort of lame. Anyway later in the episode Albert's mother and father meet the Count and seem to take a liking to him. This was an itneresting plot point. It's the begining of the Count making powerful allies in Paris. Also I MUST say, Carrie Savage as Peppo = Full of Win. I love her as this role. Episode 6 The guy Eugenie's mother is having an affair with seems to be quite paly with Eugenie's father. Do the two know each other? Are they friends? And why doesn't Eugenie's father think it's weird for a guy to stay at his house? I'm assuming he knows she's cheating on him and doesn't care? Or... Big moment in this episode for me. The count says "You don't trust me" To Eugenie's father when he's trying to make an account at his bank. CREEEPY! Really that will scare young children! Also watch as the Count seemlessly manipulates Eugenie's father. Now he doesn't completely fool him, because he keeps looking up stuff on the Count, and is seen later trying to figure out where/how the Count is getting all this money, but he did alow the Count to make an account (is that a pun lol?)... Me thinks The Count played him like a violin. Only a very smart violin... Also this epiosde again emphases that Albert is naive. He truly thought the man at Eugenie's house was their for buisness. He had no idea that that guy was sleeping with Eugenie's mother. I admire him though, because he thinks the best in people, no matter what. I can't fault the guy for thinking of people in the best light possible. I cannot do that myself, but think it's a little admirable. Also Eugenie says "You really are a child don't you". She too understands how childish and naive/dense he can be. Later..The count wants a horse...the Count GETS a horse!! "everything has a price" Eh? Anyway this episode paints a terrible picture of Eugenie's mother. First she's cheating with another man ( I DESPISE people who cheat on their partner), and later she's acting all stuck up, mean and just b*tchy to her housband. She has no right to act that way, not being faithful to him. Now he's no saint, and I smell how greedy he is a mile away, but I still kind of like him. Anyway I enjoy how honest this series is. It's not afraid to paint it's characters realistically. They are all very flawed people. No superheros in this show! No one's perfect, in fact most have very few redeeming qualities. I find that interesting. Looking at this like Albert is, it seems like the Count is one of the few truly good people here. LOL!! I laugh at such a notion. Anyway long story short, Eugenie's mother is truly despicable. She's a terrible human being. Eugenie's father is likeable, but greedy (well what do you expect from a banker? lol) . But hey, I understand the guy  , although he's kinda a jerk.
Talking about Eugenie's family, how about Eugenie herself. This episode paints her as sort of masculine. Guess this series likes to mess with Gender issues eh? For a girl of this (odd) time period/social status, the fact that she wants to ride a motorcycle paints her as sort of masculine for me, among the other small things she says/does here. Still I like her. She's much better then her mother. She's cool. She aspires to play the piano, and I find like cool. She wants to live far away, but then decides she can't and rejects her dream. She's verymature for her age, and understands what her responsibilities are. She's another admiral character. But unlike Albert, she's very strong. Haydee looks amazing/stunning in her dress. What an entrance eh? Also the Count manages to book the Prince's old Balcony seats, which is quite a feat, since it seems to be off limits and not for sale. When she later faints and almost falls off the balcony, it seems she was looking at Albert's father. I wonder if Albert's dad wronger her or the Count in the past? At the end of this episode we watch Eugenie's father tracking all the money going into the Count's bank account. He's looking for something on the Count, and I sort of hope he finds it! Episode 7 Albert thinks the best of the relationship between the Count and his mistress (man this keeps coming up lol . Franz says the Count treats her like a Dog, but Albert disagrees. Interesting conflict of idealogies here. Realisim vs Idealism perhaps? Just a tiny bit of this, but I liked it.
Franz tells Albert to "fix things" between Maximilien and his fiance, Valentine. So then why is Albert so interested in getting Maximilien set up with Valentine? Valentine is engaged with Franz. Well I guess Franz doesn't care either way though right? You can clearly see the Count messed with the Horse. When the horses run out of control the Count's servent is there to save them. Is this a set up or luck? I'm betting on set up .
And boy is the Crown Prosecutor SCARY. Oh and Albert was totally right. Maximilien, Franz, and Albert himself never thought of Valentines feelings. When I first was watching this I too was so cought up with Maximilien vs Franz, who should get the girl, that I forget "hey the girl should get to say who!". But now on this watch I saw it the entire time. Valentine's Stepmom - She pretends to think highly of Valentine, and that she takes care of her but her son reveals the truth quite nicely for us. Her son blurts out "You said She's ganna die young" (don't kids just say the darndest things sometimes? ) . Wasn't it smart how they set this all up? With the kids saying whatever is true, despite the situation, because that's how kids are. Then making him blurt how something that will fill us in on Valentine's Stepmom REAL thoughts. That's very smart, and a quick way of doing it too. Also I believe the rumors that she hits the poor girl.
Oh and I think she's plotting to KILL Valentine! And the Count frigenKNOWS. Scary!! I mean all that talk about how her son will get no inheritance, and all the poisonous plants she owns... Also is the Count helping her? In the Greenhouse, Valentine's Stepmom starts to mess around with the Count, and vice-versa. Man is everyone cheating in this anime? I believe it though! Especially in the time the original novel takes place. It paints the aristocrats quite well. We all know they used to cheat a lot. Not having to work, and being stuck with one spouse, these rich jerks tend to get "bored". I hate people who cheat, but it makes for a very juicy story! Love where this is going. Oh and that look he gives Albert. CREEPY. It's like staring at the devil. That really shocked me the first time I watched it. And things rarely shock me anymore. My heart jumped a beat...or three. And did I reeally see Valentines stepmother doing that at the end of the episode? I don't remember that! Episode 8
Ok now the Count is making some truly powerful friends. He has the King of Bankers, Cammander of the millitary, and Administer of the Law all under his roof.
Oh and now we have another game from the count. But will this one be as evil as his card game with Albert? At first it seems innocent enough...but... The Count also ignores the women he was messing around with in the Greenhouse here. I think Albert has terrible luck getting stuck in the group he's in. When they find the room, the Count comes out of nowhere and congrats them! Then he drags Albert in the back room there. Tells him a secret we don't hear (wonder what it is). The Count seems so nice talking to Albert here. Oh and what is in the box???? |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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They were just saying they stopped counting, not that they stopped paying. Just an indication of how much money the Count has to throw around that he doesn't have to keep track of it; he just assumes he has enough, and he does.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the scene was trying to imply. There's no question that Mercerf was the trigger for Haydee's fainting spell, and the severity of her panic, and his angry expression at seeing her and the Count in that booth implies that there is a very serious issue hidden in their connected past.
I'm pretty sure the implication is it's spoiler[their dead illegitimate child.] |
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zawa113
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Well, the lights on helps, it's just when I watched the first 5 episodes, I was back home for the holidays and now I'm at the dorm. I fully admit to watching ep 6 with the lights off, but I can't remember if I saw how many of the first 5 eps with or without the lights on, but either way that TV was much bigger. When I saw ep 6 though, I watched maybe 4 eps of Baccano! right before it in the same lighting situation and was fine and then I think I watched two eps of Toward the Terra right afterwards, still in the dark, and was ok again. I actually decided to watch ep 7 on my computer with adium windows open (so it wasn't full screen) and not looking directly at it and that wasn't too bad. Probably wasn't the best idea still, but in some movement places it was better, but I'm not sure how I would have done with another ep because I was too tired to watch anything else. What I find strange is that I was still able to nearly marathon Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei and watch the entire arc at once for Mononoke which both did a similar thing (Mononoke more so). Still, is anyone else who's having problems have really bad eyesight or astigmatism? I know my eyes aren't quite right, not legally blind, but I do need glasses and the prescription is thick enough to get frameless glasses (love them!) and I do have at least some astigmatism of different severities in both eyes (my eyes do not go cross eyed without my glasses on, it's not that bad). What can I say, I inherited genes form the wrong parent on this one. But like Prede I also don't have problems with most games (not true of most FPS games, for some reason they make me motion sick, Metroid was still fine for some reason) or other sorts of things. I will probably watch episode 8 tonight and comment on both 7 and 8 later, I'm leaving soon to do stuff....play Brutal Legend at my friends' house. |
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darkhappy1
 Posts: 495 Location: PA |
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Gah! This Book Club is falling behind! I'm falling behind too... But hey, it's discussion for all of the episodes from this and previous weeks, right?
... Well, I'll just provide some input for Volume 2 and compare the events in this adaption to what happened in the book. Right now, the words from the speaker before the show starts to move ahead aren't becoming anything more than recaps to me. No extra insight into whatever is happening. So yeah. I can't really think of anything for them. Episode 5
At first, I had no idea as to why they fought each other either. The reason was entirely forgettable. However, the second time I saw this, I realized that the driving force was merely anger. The Count was probably getting a kick out of it, seeing friends fight over how corrupt Paris was and if love truly was important. It is one of those events that make Albert question his surroundings afterwards, so I suppose it had some use (once he asked questions to his parents and Eugenie). Anger can be quite powerful, but this scene was a bit... odd. Hey, we aren't the ones consumed in anger. Plus, it showed how firmly Albert and Maximilian stood on their viewpoints, or at least, before and during the fight. Episode 6
Hey. Being creepy can make people feel pressured... I do it all the time. Anyway, I would say that Mr. Danglars was effortlessly manipulated by the Count. Suspicion is something that would obviously be garnered when so much money is deposited inside the account, so the Count only needed the bank account and that was that. Whether or not Danglars was suspicious hardly mattered. He still had to do his job. (Too bad bank notes and Sir Boville from the hospital led him down the path he took in the novel.) I, being one of many, loved the dress that Haydee wore. There was no incredibly intricate design, but it was ethereal and pure. And sparkly. If I'm imagining the full dress correctly (as we don't have a full shot of it), it almost looks like a flower. The curves at the hips ruin that image though (as with all the other times I see similar designs). I wonder if they have a name for that style... It also showed her neck though, unlike the book's version. Book Eugenie would've been happy with that modification. The way everything moved was so graceful too. Did they really have to let her breasts bounce here though? I didn't think she was that large. The last scene was much more dramatic than what happened in the book. Here, she almost dropped into the crowd from the Late Prince's Box, but the novel just had her faint in her chair. Now, Gankutsuou pretty much ups the drama by 10 (which is so fun), but why would Haydee stand up and come closer to the edge to see the terrifying General Morcerf? I was pretty sure she was sitting at first. Is the 2nd volume sacrificing some logic just for the sake of dramatization? Even so, the outcome of such a trade is enough to make me happy. Episode 7 Franz considered the relationship of Haydee and the Count (Beauty and the Beast!) to be like a relationship between owner and dog. From what we've seen, Haydee is taken very good care of, so the Count treats her well. However, she still considers herself as his slave, so Franz's comparison isn't really all that off. I'd compare the relationship as a chess player and his queen. Maximillian acts so shy and cute in this episode. 
The horse acting wildly in this anime actually makes more sense than in the book. I still have no idea how the horses got to go berserk in the book without any mind control.
The Count is merely trying to carve himself into Mme. Villefort's heart. Indirectly helping her along the way isn't such a bad idea, and his hands won't get dirtied if Valentine dies. You didn't remember that? Heh. It was one of the first things I remembered once the opening song played for this episode.  It's still very... twisted, to say the least.
Episode 8 The dinner party showed the personalities of the three heads very well. Mr. Danglars was chomping down that food greedily, Mr. Villefort was frank, harsh, and serious, and Mr. Morcerf.... Eh. Can't remember anything about him. I suppose two is a better number than three this time. It's interesting how Benedetto was the one chosen to play handsome prince charming. The Count has everything carefully planned... Mercedes knows something about the Count. She continuously says how he reminded her of something. She questions why a Marseilles dish was served too... AND.... Old man creeper. 
That's pretty much as far as I got this time. I have a half-day, the weekend, and one more day off though. Hopefully, I'll catch up. @classicalzawa Perhaps the patterns and art in Gankutsuou are very complicated and fills out everything. Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei doesn't use it quite as drastically as Gankutsuou (if I remember anything correctly), and the patterns used are very simple. I haven't watched Mononoke, but judging from the first few minutes, I'd still blame the eye strain on the complex patterns and saturated colors. |
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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It's unclear as to whether or not he's actually naive and assumes Lucien's "company" is of the platonic kind...but I highly doubt it. I'm pretty sure Danglars is just desperate to keep his wife at bay, and Lucien knows what to do if he wants to move up the pecking order. Discussion of eps. 13-16 opened up today, as most of the feedback I got was that people didn't need extra time to watch. My usual analysis won't be up until at least Thursday since I am back in school now and don't arrive home until 8:30 most nights. But anyone else should feel free to start that discussion. Also post thoughts on previous episodes. Cheers! |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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I was about to start watching the next four episodes, when I realized we've overlooked a rather important element of the show: the opening and closing sequences. I believe that both of these hold significant but cryptic hints as to what is going on in the story.
Unfortunately, I have only the video from Funimation's streaming site, and thus no written copy of the lyrics, and the credits running past the images, so this is a less than perfect recreation, but I will note what I have. The lines that read [???] are where I couldn't clearly understand the lyrics. "We Were Lovers" So tonight I'll sing a song to all my friends Also to those we won't be seeing again (0:28) To those I knew, and those I still adore And I want to see once more. (0:34) I just pray that you will love me and trust me, Laugh with me and cry with me, (0:49) (0:51) Spend those silent times with me. Love me ever more. Love me ever more. (1:00) You and I were lovers, (1:07) our dreams were not s[???] (1:11) and when my friends betray(?), may you [???] (1:13) (1:17) (1:19) (1:21) (1:26) (1:31) Harsh words were said, and lies were told instead. I didn't ever mean to make you cry. (1:38) (1:44) My observations here: Characters that get screen time alone in the OP sequence are the Count (as expected, and a lot of it, most of the large gaps between screenshots are continued shots of him), Haydee (0:49 and 0:51, is there significance in accompanying those particular lines?), Albert (who is shortly joined by Franz and Eugenie at 1:00, again, possible significance in the lyrics?), and Mercedes (1:11, not being able to make out the end of this line is frustrating me) The decision to change from the monochromatic style to full color for the final line of the song has to have some meaning to it, right? (1:38) That, combined with the bird motif (freedom of a sort?). Also, I imagine the final shot has a number of important symbols. There's the watch the Count gave to Albert. Several chess pieces, possibly representing certain characters? I make out a black king (the Count?), white knight, white bishop(?), white(?) pawn, and two other pieces knocked over. What is the book, though? In the portion where the image pans down over the cast of characters, it starts to fade briefly to the gears of a clock or watch. (1:18) Again, likely referring to the watch the Count gave Albert. If so, it clearly has importance to the story. The closer is much simpler in terms of lyrics. "You Won't See Me Coming" I'm not the man I used to be, And what you see is not what it seems. (it seems. it seems.) I traveled through space to be with you. What you don't know, you shouldn't fear. You won't see me coming You won't see me coming 'til I strike. You won't see me coming You won't see me coming 'til I strike. Fairly straightforward. The video is too busy and too crowded out by the credits for me to try finding important images, but I did notice one thing that I want to mention: towards the end, there appears to be some kind of winged robot or armored suit fighting something. |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Here you go: ...our dreams were not soured by life And then my friends betrayed me meant you could never be my wife. http://www.lyricstime.com/jean-jacques-burnel-we-were-lovers-lyrics.html Pretty interesting, considering what we learn in the current set of episodes. |
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pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Okay, well in the spirit of participation and amends, I'll save rainbowcourage time and try to do justice to a summary:
Episodes 13-16 (Spoilers) Episode 13: Haidee Summary As the Count is about to be arrested, he reveals Heloise and Edouard in his carriage and mentions to Villefort having learned some interesting facts about Villefort family affairs, whereupon Villefort lets him leave. Cavalcanti continues his seduction of Eugenie, claiming that Albert abandoned her at the opera and doesn't care enough to fight for her. Franz's search for Gankutsuou leads him to enlist Lucien, and together they access a secret database in the Ministry of the Interior, but in the end fail to get Gankutsuou's real name. Danglars cuts off Fernand's financial support, leaving him to fend for himself in the Presidential campaign. Fernand is seen deciding to attack an enemy planet instead of waiting for negotiations to conclude. Villefort, having been suspended, lashes out at his father, Noirtier, revealing that he brought his father down from power. The Count manipulates markets to set up Danglars, who continues to revel in the profits obtained from Cavalcanti's stock tips. Most importantly, per the title, we learn Haidee's past, why she is with the Count and why she feels about him as she does. All is not well between Cavalcanti and the Count when Cavalcanti gets physically abusive with Haidee. Villefort attempts to murder the Count but is thwarted by Albert charging into him, and a shot rings out... Haidee says she had cast away all "horrible feeling" and hoped she could sway the Count from his own, but her talk with Albert has made her realize she can't forget her feelings of "revenge". Haidee is obviously torn between loyalty to the Count and his mission and her own past, and the sympathy she is feeling for Albert. Quite an interesting character. Episode 14: Lost Souls Summary The Count is wounded protecting Albert before the gendarmes lead Villefort away. Villefort warns Albert that disaster is headed for his household, too. Ali demonstrates advanced medical technique with his squid hand. Maximilien returns to fetch Noirtier to Marseilles and learns the Villefort household is defunct. Cavalcanti flusters Danglars with his knowledge of the connection between he, Villefort and Morcef, but lets him off, then presses on the approval for his engagement to Eugenie. Caderousse approaches Beauchamp to sell dirt on General Morcef, whereupon Beauchamp interviews Albert and then decides he should listen to Caderousse based on Albert's reaction. Cavalcanti announces his engagement to Eugenie. Albert is refused entry to see Eugenie, and she misses him as he retreats to the hideout. At the hideout, Albert and Franz "make up", but then soon "break up" again when Franz refuses to take Albert with him on a trip and is secretive about its purpose. As Albert walks the street dejected, the Count picks him up and takes him to space on his yacht. General Morcef prepares to deliver a campaign speech at the National Assembly, as Haidee demands a car to take her there. Albert tells Beauchamp that his father feels the same way about the country as about his mother. As everything falls apart, the last thing he could let go of would be his belief in and admiration for that relationship. When he and Franz discuss Eugenie's engagement, he's finally reached the pivotal stage of "can't tell what's true, and what's a lie." Ironically, he will end up trusting the Count alone, while the Count's actions now seem to have been designed to destroy Albert's faith in his parents. I made a note from the narration in Ep 10: "I will not let his soul be lost yet. Not until the day that he himself snuffs out that light". Very interesting... There's a lot of mentions in recent episodes about people remaining "themselves". Franz says, "I'd rather know the truth even if learning the truth changed who I am", indicating it's better than being delusional. But Albert seems to fear the consequences to his own character of learning the truth. Episode 15: The End of Happiness, The Beginning of Truth Summary Eugenie feels abandoned by Albert and Franz, who tells her to remain herself and to seek the truth. Albert views the Milky Way from the Count's ship. The Count mentions that the light he is seeing took 25 years to travel from Earth. Albert professes his trust solely in the Count, asking the Count to promise that they will always be friends. Haidee destroys Fernand's chances at the Presidency by revealing to the Assembly and the viewers that he is really Fernand Mondego and that he colluded with their enemy, the Empire, to kill her father and then sold her and her mother into slavery in return for a small fortune. But later, her revenge tastes bitter. Franz learns Gankutsuou's real name, Edmond Dantes, and his story from Noirtier via a secret mechanism for contacting his mind directly. Albert is sent back to Earth by the Count, who appears to have misgivings, but quickly regains his vicious demeanor. Can I just say, I love the mecha designs. The Count's ship and the military vessels echo sailing ships from the Monte Cristo era as well as the 20th century, but are so futuristic at the same time. Episode 16: Scandal Summary Albert returns to learn of the accusations against his father and he is swarmed by reporters outside the Space Forces Imperial Headquarters. Inside, he is told that his father has left, but says that he still believes in his father. Eugenie tries to go to comfort Albert, but is prevented from leaving and is to be held in custody inside the house by her father for fear of tarnishing their status from connection with the Morcef family. Albert confronts Beauchamp for his news story attacking Fernand, but both Beauchamp and Lucien present evidence supporting Haidee's claims that Morcef is truly Fernand Montego and did sell Haidee. Albert notices a group photograph with the name Edmond Dantes at Maximilien's place, and that clue leads to a connection between Dantes, Danglars, Villefort and Morcef. Adding this to his research on Gankutsuou, the puzzle pieces all fall into place for him and he rushes back to Paris fearing Albert is in danger. Albert is let into his estate via an unguarded gate by Peppo, who then leaves saying a final good-bye. Mercedes tells Albert the truth about her past and confirms that Morcef is in fact Fernand Montego and that she believes Haidee's story is true. Albert heads to the Count's residence, only to find Luigi Vampa and Peppo, who reveals her part as spy in the Count's plot. Arriving at the spaceport, Albert finds Haidee waiting for the Count's ship to land. Again with the little touches: the street decorations in the first scene look like statues caught in shock and panic. They are probably actual photographs of statuary, but I don't know the source. The depth of Danglar's depravity is revealed in his statement to Eugenie, "I won't tolerate anything that might lower your value". His only concern based on this and on abandoning Fernand is preserving his own lifestyle, regardless of consequences for anyone else. I'm coming to regard him as the worst of the lot. CATCHING UP ON GENERAL COMMENTS:
Also note that the apparent source of Albert's anger is Max insulting "Parisians", but this is really about his parents. His faith in his parents' marriage is what is driving him, which marriage of course has become more significant to our plot by now. Also, Max is defending romantic love as the basis of marriage on principle, when Albert is in effect doing the same thing. Hmmm... but Albert lost .
FATE: Not having delved into it much, I've always been put off by the concept of fate in anime. Yuuko in xxxHolic drives home ultimate inevitability, as if events are destined and cannot be changed. This seems to be the general viewpoint from anime. The Count says in Ep 11, "It was inevitable. There are no coincidences in this world", as well as, "In fate, there are no coincidences." But then later, "Just as the setting sun does so according to the laws of the universe, fate too is composed of unyielding necessity. What I have is the power of a strong will... I have forged my own destiny through the power of my own mind." These statements seem contradictory. On the one hand, events are inevitable, but on the other, a person wills their own fate/destiny through their own strength. By extension, the stronger will determines events. Thinking about this now, I think something is lost in translation. The Japanese while apparently supporting inevitability (as in fixed destiny) at the same time value individual ambition and effort and encourage their children to prepare and succeed on their own merit. Looking at it with Gankutsuou in mind, I think their viewpoint aligns more with karma, as the Count also mentions. That is, fate is determined by one's actions, but you can't escape the laws of life. If you go down a path of ruin, then you will end up ruined. If you avoid that path, you can succeed. Your future is not pre-determined at birth, but is pre-determined by your own decisions and actions. But common actions taken lead to a proven, or at least highly predictable, inevitability. That I can agree with. VISUALS: There is so much packed into the backgrounds in this show, it boggles my mind. For those with the original Geneon discs, one of them has an extensive gallery covering literally every setting. One thing I just noticed recently the second time through: The gold wallpaper in the Danglar's mansion is actually money. There are Washingtons in there . The sheer amount of detail is astounding to me. The combination of different techniques as well, using 3D combined with photographs and textures. Much of it looks exactly like PC games from that era, but it doesn't stand out because of how the various 2D and 3D elements are combined.
Anyway, that's it. |
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rainbowcourage
Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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Mad props to pparker, thank you ever so much for the lovely summaries.
A bit late, but I'll add a few thoughts from my addled brain (these next two months are the worst of the whole year for lowly students like myself). Wow, I have to hand it to Liam O'Brien, Cavalcanti's speech was probably the best performance on the english dub track so far and appropriately shocking. Also the first indication we have of any insubordination within the Count's ranks. I enjoyed Beauchamps' drawing very much. Love the symbolism of the Count's watch falling between Franz and Albert. Episodes 13-14 are pretty much setting the stage for the havoc that's about to come, and Albert's world has begun falling apart with the Eugenie confusion and the deterioration of his friendship with Franz. Check out the space backgrounds. Just absolutely stunning: 
More of Albert's bordering-on-obsessive manlove: "I don't think I can bear being apart from you!" If you look carefully the spilled glass on the floor seems to foreshadow ill tidings from Paris, or a stain on their friendship. Of course, if Haydee's speech didn't convince you, the light shining down upon her as she spoke should convince you. All the tidbits they've dropped along the way are about to come together...too bad for Albert, Franz is going to be the first to figure everything out. It's killing me how they keep mispronouncing Mondego. The accent should be on the de, not the Mon. You'd think out of everyone dubbing this someone would know a little about Spanish pronunciation considering how rampant the language is here in the U.S. The Count's schizophrenia is starting to get a little scary At this point the story has been laid out beautifully. All that's left, folks, is for the shit to hit the fan. |
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darkhappy1
Posts: 495 Location: PA |
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See, Villefort and Danglars are tied together for Most Disgusting for me. Although Villefort is the Head Prosecutor, he has done dirty deeds of his own, but does not admit to them. He makes sure that everyone know how much power he has and deals harsh punishments, but he feels that he does not need to suffer consquences once he decides to commit a crime. The love he gives to his family is almost zero to none.
Sorry for the off-topicness, but Yuuko also says a few things that evetually form into what the Count said. "If you think your future is set in stone, then it must be. But if you think that your future is still undertermined, then it must be." (It was something like that...) So reallly, the idea of us forming our own destinies that will be inevitable carries through both titles. However, the fate that is determined by said actions and will does not always form into what the person wants. Also, in episode 10, I realized that the detective was called Boville, the guy from the hospital or something that was supposed to collect funds from Danglars. He was intrigued by the Count once the Count collected some money from Danglars, but wasn't it like that with everyone that he passed? Right now, I can't think of any associations between the Boville in the anime and the Boville in the book, so I suppose it was just a name to give to a one-shot character... Hooray? |
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Imperialkat
 Posts: 227 |
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Forgive me, ANN Book Club, for I have sinned. It has been over two weeks since my last post...
Episode 9 A lot happens here. The poison ring comes into play in a big way. Also, that debate we had in the beginning of this thread (I forget how it started) gained a lot of fuel after Max’s conversation with Franz. Villefort wants to go off on the Count. I did like the scene with the Count in the rain with the box. That’s how I envision these old tales looking. Also, in the scene with Valentine at her home, it was her step-brother looking through the glass door. What was that about? Episode 10 The name Dantes pops up, and it spooks the pants off the big three. Hmm… It is interesting that the opening of the coffin also knocks over the cross (there was an extinguished flame and crows as well. I think we got the message). And the contents of the coffin…hate. The episode leaves off with Max and crew trying to take Valentine, and Villefort with a pistol drawn. He sure likes his power. Episode 11 Car chase!! The conversation between Albert’s parents was straight soap-opera dope. And Albert heard the whole thing. His world is crumbling a little faster now. Villefort’s confrontation showed me a few things: 1) Madame Villefort is crazy, and 2) Villefort cares less about that and more about his own reputation. Bide your time and hold out hope. Sounds like such positive reinforcement. Episode 12 The broken engagement is the centerpiece here, and we discover the extent of Albert’s and Eugenie’s relationship. It seems like they were at the awkward-schoolyard level even though they were engaged. I notice more now the dynamic between the adults and the young people. The young people are trying to follow their hearts while the adults follow the world. It’s evident in something Mercedes said to Albert—something about those who’ve lost their courage getting swept up by the river. So the Count spread rumors about Albert’s family, which got the Danglars to call off the engagement. And where does Albert run to in his frustration? The Count. Hmm… The chaos of the new semester is settling a bit so I'm in catch-up mode now. I was worried about getting dusted but a look around this thread tells me I'm not the only one. Nevertheless, It's time to get my act together. |
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OldCharlieStoletheHandle
Posts: 1288 Location: Mastic Beach, NY |
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Some thoughts about episodes 13-16:
I must admit I am a bit disappointed in how easily the Count dispensed with Villefort. Of course, it was obvious who was going to win this confrontation, I just thought he might provide more of a challenge. Then again, he seemed to be the least "interesting" of the big three. Up to now, Morcref had seemed the least repugnant of the three; now we see he's a pretty slimy character himself. Well, Albert did tell Beauchamp he'd be "relieved" if his father did something underhanded... Meanwhile, Danglars rolls along, so wrapped up in the wealth his new friend "Cavalcanti" and apparently believing that what has happened to Morcref and Villefort won't touch him if he disassociates himself from them; the Count seems to be taking his time with him. Albert's naivete reaches epic proportions here, almost to the point of becoming annoying. He keeps demanding the truth, then denying it, even when it comes from his own mother. It's all just setting him up for when the shit hits the fan (and him). Peppo's "surprise" was no surprise (except to Albert); I'm pretty sure I noted I was suspicious that the kidnapping was a put-up job in my first post (again, I haven't read the book or seen this show before). As for the Count's schizophrenia, there are enough clues to explain this. First, Franz learns that "Gankutsuou" is an immortal fiend imprisoned in the Chateau d'If; then he finds the name "Edmond Dantes" associated with it. Finally, we see a picture of Dantes that doesn't look much like the Count. It seems clear that at some point "Gankutsuou" and Edmond Dantes were separate entities which have now "merged" in some way, which I think explains a lot. For one thing, the two may not have the same goals; or, perhaps, Dantes is concerned things may be going farther than he would like. And for "Gankutsuou" changing bodies every so often might be the secret to his/its immortality. |
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pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Villefort isn't justified in his actions, by any means, but the one difference is that he was put at an extreme career disadvantage by his father's politics. He is despicable for contributing to his father's fall to obtain his status and position. But he did have a reason. Once in that position, his ambition would drive him to extremist judgments, but also likely in service to those who controlled his fate in the government. What he failed to notice of course, as criminals usually do, is that power morphs through time, sometimes subtly, and ultimately he found himself on the wrong side with all his support missing (accelerated certainly by the Count's finances ).
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Discussion of episodes 17-20
Sorry for not doing a specific episode by episode analysis of the current batch, but I watched them a couple days ago and my thoughts aren't fresh enough to do so. Hmm, the player on Funi's site doesn't seem to want to play for me anymore. Well, at least it's still on their YouTube channel. Just the dub, not the sub, but whatever. Poor Haidee. It's so clear that she's very much like Albert, and the Count has abandoned her (emotionally, at least) too. But whereas the Count openly turned on Albert as part of his revenge once he was done manipulating him (although even that was part of a manipulation as well), he just doesn't care about Haidee at all anymore, and so she isn't forced to face the truth in the same way Albert was. I'm a little surprised that the Count explicitly told Mercutio that the servants were to inherit his fortune when he finished his revenge. It seems surprisingly compassionate for a man so driven solely by his desire to punish those who wronged him. Especially when he's made no effort to spare the children of his enemies (more often exploiting them) who had nothing whatsoever to do with the crime. This is after the duel, where it's made clear he's abandoned Edmond Dantes in everything but vengeance, so what does this mean? |
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