Forum - View topicREVIEW: Monster DVD Box Set 1
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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While we all know of the merits of Monster's story, I really do not feel that the art and animation any anything of note. This makes the story and plot all the more important, as they don't have to rely visuals. It always seems like reviews for shows just tend to list the grade letters in a row. Unless, for the art, you're rating it for how faithful it is to the manga.
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8501 Location: Penguinopolis |
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So, Carl didn't find it worth mentioning that the original score for the show has been replaced, something Viz had not let on at all, which had to be pointed out by the fans? That the scene in the last episode of the set that originally featured the Ronette's "Be My Baby" has been edited so that it features generic music and a reference to the song in the dialogue has been removed?
Nothing about that? Really? |
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rowsdower
Posts: 83 |
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A very, very nice review, but I unfortunately have to disagree with the assertion that this set shows Monster at its peak. I guess it goes to show how one's mileage may vary as that distinction, to me anyway, belongs to the Munich arc (roughly episodes 25-39). Those episodes have Monster's many strengths firing on all cylinders. While the introductory episodes featured in this set got me hooked, the Munich arc catapulted the series up my list to become my favorite anime of all time, where it has remained unchallenged in the 4+ years that have passed since I first watched it.
I'm glad I'm not alone in being a little disappointed that Viz apparently couldn't get the rights to all of the music used in the series, though. Not just the ending theme, as the review mentions, but also the song "Be My Baby" for the episode of the same name. :/ I always appreciated the weird irony of a song by an African-American girl group being spoiler[the favorite/signature tune of a neo-Nazi minor villain.] |
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darkchibi07
 Posts: 5514 |
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It's more likely he never saw the fansubs which he can compare it to. |
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Prede
 Posts: 388 |
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While I really love this show, I haven't been completely bowled over as Carl has. Still great review. You point out a lot of things that make this series so great. Personally I have a few problems with the way it handles it's drama, the fact that the suspense isn't really there enough, and there are far too many contrivances that make me want to bash my head into a wall. Becuase they don't need to be there, and the story could almost be the same. But the fact that they are there, leads me to believe it's a little bit of weak writing. Really it's like they are damaging and otherise great plot. It hurts...a lot.
That however is all nitpicking on my part. It is a great show, although I doubt it would ever be a favorite of mine. But I think I get why everyone likes it so much (which is more then I can say for a handful of other well lvoed series). I'm not sure how you can judge Johan's voice actor on the one or two lines he get's in this box set though. But if your going to, I will as well  .Personally I did NOT like those few lines he gave, not one bit. But hey he could get better as the show goes on. My favorite character so far is easily Lunge. And I think part of that is due to the great performance by Richard Epcar. He sounds very different here then he did in GitS Sac and Lupin III (both shows that I really enjoyed him in btw), and manages to capture Lunge in a way that really impressed me. He got him nailed down. He totally is owning thsi dub. I am also really enjoying Liam O'Brien as Tenma, I like him as the lead in these dark thriller type shows (i.e. Ergo proxy where he played Vincent Law). Still this dub is not a favorite of mine. I have too many nit picks about it. It's a little flat at times, and a little too dramatic at other times. And I really did not like Johan's voice at all. I mean that's the voice of evil? But like I said one line is not fair to judge. So the jurry is out on that one. At first is seemed really good dub, but there are some small problems as it goes on.
And I'm still kind of sad this didn't go to Ocean, as hearing Ted Cole as Tenma would have been really amazing! That be like a dream come true. He totally owned as Keaton in Master Keaton and would have nailed Tenma too. He really fits in, in a Urasawa show. Still O'Brien is impressing me, as he usually does. Anyway interesting review. I think Viz did wonders with the boxset. I really like the way it all looks. I think everyone should at least check this show out on the SyFy channel. it's worth a look. Oh and I totally get the "Odyssey"comparison. Just like "The Odyssey", this is a grand story, with a huge cats, lots of deep messages, and an intriguing (and long) plot. Homer would eat this up
Last edited by Prede on Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:34 am; edited 3 times in total |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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It isn't just rights issues. The music in the episodes is scrambled around as well. It's the same tracks, but they play in different places. It's really inexplicable. |
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DKL
 Posts: 1962 Location: California, USA |
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The animation for Masayuki Kojima's work always intrigues me mainly because, when it's at its best, there is a tendency to not have "shortcuts"; if you study, say, episode 8, one of the more interesting pieces of animation was Eva's "acting" which successfully conveyed the notion of "waking up from a hangover".
Little details like how Eva picks up Tenma's picture have this unusually masterful grasp of weight and gravity that might seem unspectacular, but really catches my eye mainly because it's not common for me to see it done with such understated skill in TV anime. Have a ton of screencaps talking about that very scene here: http://dklaeno.blogspot.com/search/label/ryosuke%20nakamura Apparently, Ryosuke Nakamura did the [excellent] Run Melos arc in Aoi Bungaku in addition to episode 8 (and 2) of Monster. In particular, I really like that Kojima actually favors coherent action staging over overly stylized sequences (compare Master Keaton and Yawara!... the difference in the philosophy of the action sequences is really interesting and you can see how much more distinguishable Kojima's style is). But, yes... this emphasis on more subtle details (that may or may not escape casual attention) in the animation isn't too surprising as I think Kojima usually gets people who are regulars with Ghibli (Kitaro Kosaka and Shinsaku Sasaki, among other people). Also, Kojima actually distributes the animation talent around REALLY well; I'm surprised that some of the content looks as great as it does given the staggering amount of episodes (and that the show actually still manages to put out its best looking content towards the end; the production didn't run out of fuel midway (unlike, say, Sayo Yamamoto's Michiko e Hatchin where the animation just falls flat towards the end, if I were to draw a comparison with another super production). Also, while being too close to the original could be a charge you could raise against Kojima, his minor additions are actually quite startling; a lot of composition is borrowed straight from Urasawa's manga, but there's a ton of other impressive composition that gets tossed in depending on who directs the episode: 
I was also fond of this extra little piece of staging (where Lunge has to walk over to the picture frame that's turned down): [minor spoilers] http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a342/dklreviews/snapshot20100103220704.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a342/dklreviews/snapshot20100103220718.jpg That said, I'm not sure, but I think Kojima corrected something from the original manga in last week's episode [the one in France]; Kojima and his scriptwriters seems to have tightened up a piece of dialog that always confused me in the manga [or, to the very least, Viz's edition... or, maybe it's because the English language is less ambiguous? I don't know]) In case anyone is wondering [super spoilers for the series]: spoiler[In the manga, Roberto strongly implies that Nina has to be killed because she's trying to kill Johan... but that doesn't make sense given that Johan won't kill specific people until they can see "the end": Dr. Tenma, Wolfe, Nina and Anna [the mother]] Anyway, the above scene is actually more ambiguous in the anime, which makes more sense. (that said, I'm not too sure about this assessment given that I'm watching it on TV; I'll revisit it when I get the second DVD box) That said, Kojima's scriptwriters also seem to make several other additions in the show that actually enhance the base story; for example: MOAR SERIES SPOILERS spoiler[When Grimmer gets back into the car after the meeting with the secret police, in the manga, he suddenly just remembers the past... they made this scene make more sense in the animu by throwing in a moth, which worked as some kind of memory device that helped Grimmer remember his friend at Kinderheim (who we later discover is Roberto)... very poetic stuff] Also, I saw the Fifth Spoon of Sugar episode the other week and the addition of detail with regards to how a spoiler[hitman] does his work was quite nice (animated really well too; the viewer is shown exactly HOW spoiler[he sneaks his sniper up onto the roof]). Also, another thing of note is that Kojima actually practices the habit of tactical cohesion: the opening episode had an interesting piece of staging where the police men at the scene canvas a maximum angle of fire when they bust through the door (this is as opposed to the original where they just bust in and have all their guns pointed forward): 
(cap taken from an episode personally directed by Kojima... but, yes, I'm pretty into details like that since I'm a fan of Michael Mann's films, where you always see neat bits of tactical cohesion) Anyway, uh, yeah... I spent a lot of time just studying this production and the original manga and it's interesting to go back and forth (in particular, I like that Kojima actually adjusts the timing of scenes given that he seems to grasp that there would be a difference with between timing in animation and manga)... But, yes, small details are actually important; it's the small details that made me like Sunao Katabuchi's adaptation of Black Lagoon a lot better even though, on the surface, it's mostly the same story (that said, I appreciate that Tetsuro Araki hijacks the maid arc... it's so much better in the animu that it's ridiculous). ============ As for the music issues, it's disappointing, but there's not much we can do about it (interestingly, there is no mention of the RONNETTES track in the Japanese version either... which implies that they actually had this stuff ready on the other side...)... but, yes, there was talk about an "international version" of the show and our version apparently matches the one that France got (music changes and whatnot)... but I'm not sure as this is only what I've heard. That said, I've seen a much later episode of the french dub (episode 72) and the music seems to match up with the Japanese version later on; I think it's mostly the early stuff, but I'm not sure. As for the English dub, I really like it (gets really better around 10 where everyone is settled in more)... In fact, Journey to Frieham was completely better in English thanks to the addition of British accents (pretty sure that was JB Blanc). |
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Prede
Posts: 388 |
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Someone pointed out on the AoD forums that other releases are like this too. This must be the western soundtrack mix. For some reason they changed certain background themes around on the Spanish and French DVD versons as well. All three versons (N. America, Spanish, French) have the excact (weird) background music. While the Korean verson has the original score, all European and now North American releases have this score. It's an incredbly odd thing to do, but it is not Viz's fault. |
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luffypirate
 Posts: 3187 |
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Wouldn't be the first time Viz pulled that stunt *cough* Nana *cough* Music edits or not, Monster is still bad ass either way. |
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Henry Jones
 Posts: 97 Location: Nebraska |
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Makes me wonder if there are going to be issues with the "Over the Rainbow" episode. You take all references of it out of that episode, and you destroy most of its symbolism and impact. I'll still buy the releases. Really, if I hadn't specifically known there was different music, it wouldn't have been a better or worse series. Issues happen and I'm glad more people are understanding that anime companies are not evil entities that wish to manipulate your favorite title to hell just to torment you. Issues happen. I work in the media and I've seen copyright issues happen. They can be messy messy.
And honestly, the first part was the least interesting part of it for me. But that's because it takes four episodes to lay out the premise which has already been summed up by every single review or description of the show. The later episodes of the show may be "less perfect" (And the second half has some amazingly soap opera-esque plot twists), but they also have some of the most amazingly dramatic moments I've seen in an anime like, well, most everything involving Mr. Grimmer. |
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pachy_boy
Posts: 1341 |
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Watching this series on Syfy, it's everything Carl says it is, and I've been hooked for all the same reasons. It is morally disgusting and continues having the odds hound in against the main characters, but it's because of that it's gripping as hell and makes me want to know what happens next and where the characters go, kind of like Death Note except Monster revolves around an actual protagonist and not a villain. My one and only gripe is that Tenma's naive belief of there being good in everything and seeking a misunderstanding in Johan gets kind of annoying; there is one scene where forbidding Nina from killing someone nearly, ever so nearly, caused an entire city to burn. spoiler[And who wouldn't suspect that Johan is leading Tenma into another game by leaving messages that he is a victim of a split personality?]
If the music edits are true, then it's too bad, but we should be thankful to have this great show over here at all. And considering how long this series is and how each DVD set has a limited number of episodes, I'm greatful for the Syfy broadcast for the time being. Last edited by pachy_boy on Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3495 Location: Back stateside |
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Wait - what?!? As a HUGE Urasawa fan, this was on my must-have list (I saw the anime a year or two before it was licensed), but guess what? The addition of a fantastic score was one of my reasons for loving the anime adaptation. If they've screw with it... sorry, Viz, you'll still get my money for your excellent releases of his manga, but I'm not going to buy the anime! I don't mean to sound petty, but that's like mashing up the music to Star Wars or something, you don't do it to a score that good! Also, I have to agree with rowsdower that my favorite part is the Munich arc as well; the scene in the library (you know it if you've read/seen it) is just... wow. Though if they've screwed up the score, it'll be nowhere near as effective. Dammit, Viz, why did you do this?!?! 
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belvadeer
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I missed so much of this show while in Korea. I have so much catching up to do! But I will say this show is something else. Amazing storytelling, creepy ambience (even in peaceful situations), I have to get caught up. I really dislike Lunge though, he's just annoying and I don't care what he says, that finger thing is creepy. Just goes to show what a freak he is.
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Prede
Posts: 388 |
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You didn't read my post. This is not Viz Media's fault (for once). This is what they got for the soundtrack. The French and Spanish DVD releases have the same soundtrack. It's a very small change, and it's something the Japanese did, not Viz Meida. Not buying this = less support for this. Which means less of a chance more titles like this will be released over here... 
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3495 Location: Back stateside |
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Lunge is my favorite character; just wait, he becomes awesome (yet another reason this section is not yet as good as it ever gets). |
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