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NEWS: Japanese Animation DVD Ranking, October 26-November 1


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Ktimene's Lover



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:38 pm Reply with quote
I think the fact that Bakemonogatorii is in the realm of the harem/ecchi genre might contribute to it selling so well lately. Also, the storyline itself.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Sigh.

Well, the apocalypse has come. Haruhi fans have proven they'll buy anything no matter how repetitive and dull. Will we see more companies put less work into their hit shows just to save production costs while still enjoying strong sales? I don't see why not.

If fans want good shows, they've actually got to use their wallets effectively. But then, fans don't want good shows. They just want Ecchi, Moe and Ecchi Moe, along with a few hit shows that manage not to have either but which have big and/or blind fanbases nevertheless.

Double sigh.
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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 1185
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:04 am Reply with quote
Ctimene's Lover wrote:
I think the fact that Bakemonogatari is in the realm of the harem/ecchi genre might contribute to it selling so well lately. Also, the storyline itself.

I think because it's the best show of the year, despite the (subversive) nods to otaku bait themes. The characters are some of the best in recent years, and Shaft's creativity really stands out.

Haruhi still has enough steam to sell 10K Endless DVDs... (add my sigh) Wink. I guess the good news is that's about the minimum to support another season. But that's still a long descent from being a 25K opener.

Kind of surprised at Hidamari Sketch, but I haven't watched the new season.
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redcar



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 172
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:58 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Sigh.

Well, the apocalypse has come. Haruhi fans have proven they'll buy anything no matter how repetitive and dull. Will we see more companies put less work into their hit shows just to save production costs while still enjoying strong sales? I don't see why not.

If fans want good shows, they've actually got to use their wallets effectively. But then, fans don't want good shows. They just want Ecchi, Moe and Ecchi Moe, along with a few hit shows that manage not to have either but which have big and/or blind fanbases nevertheless.

Double sigh.


I find it amusing how you label people as deranged for both daring to disagree with your opinion of a show and continuing to put money into the industry when so many will not. Less amusing is the perpetuation of the notion that just because a company is successful means that it's out to get people and will stop at nothing to line its pockets at their expense. While the purpose of a company is certainly to make money, I seriously doubt KyoAni or any other company would repeatedly produce poor material purposely. It might save costs in the short term, but it would be a death sentence in the long term due in part to a loss of customer interest and in part to a loss of interest from those who would give the company material to produce. This is based on the tenuous assumption that they bungled Endless Eight on purpose; I find it vastly more likely that someone royally screwed up and they had no choice but to cross their fingers and pray that it did well. In any case, I see no threat of good quality being eschewed in the name of profit in the future, since it's progressively self-defeating.

Your second point is mostly valid, but I would like to point out that there's not much to be done about it. Just as Hollywood puts out a multitude of banal action films and audiences eat them up, anime producers make their fanservice and shounen fighting animes to cater to the average stimulation addict. It's unlikely to change in either situation no matter how much those who care for quality works complain, so there's really no point in bellyaching about it. All we can do is show what support we can to the series we believe in, and hope that somewhere along the way our positive attentions will attract those of others.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:54 am Reply with quote
redcar wrote:
I find it amusing how you label people as deranged for both daring to disagree with your opinion of a show and continuing to put money into the industry when so many will not.


Putting money into bad shows is just as worse for the industry as not putting money in at all. I mean, what's the point of saving the industry if all that's being made is garbage?

redcar wrote:
While the purpose of a company is certainly to make money, I seriously doubt KyoAni or any other company would repeatedly produce poor material purposely. It might save costs in the short term, but it would be a death sentence in the long term due in part to a loss of customer interest and in part to a loss of interest from those who would give the company material to produce. This is based on the tenuous assumption that they bungled Endless Eight on purpose; I find it vastly more likely that someone royally screwed up and they had no choice but to cross their fingers and pray that it did well. In any case, I see no threat of good quality being eschewed in the name of profit in the future, since it's progressively self-defeating.


Excuse me, but do you really believe that Kadokawa and Kyoto Animation did not plan for eight episodes? Endless Eight -> eight episodes. It isn't a coincidence. Also, I don't see how a company can make the sort of mistake needed to mess up the episodes.

redcar wrote:
Your second point is mostly valid, but I would like to point out that there's not much to be done about it. Just as Hollywood puts out a multitude of banal action films and audiences eat them up, anime producers make their fanservice and shounen fighting animes to cater to the average stimulation addict. It's unlikely to change in either situation no matter how much those who care for quality works complain, so there's really no point in bellyaching about it.


It is true that really bad works get more than their fair share of fans, Transformers 2 being a notable modern example from the West. But that doesn't mean we have to like it, or even tolerate it. Just because something is "unlikely to change" shouldn't mean that we have to accept it and stand idly by. There will always be crime and poverty and famine, but we try and erase them nonetheless.

redcar wrote:
All we can do is show what support we can to the series we believe in, and hope that somewhere along the way our positive attentions will attract those of others.


It seems that Japanese Otaku support Endless Eight so much they'll buy it in large numbers. Which is why I'm sad.


Last edited by dtm42 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:53 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
It seems that Japanese Otaku support Endless Eight so much they'll buy it in large numbers. Which is why I'm sad.

I just think you are confusing entertainment with art. The audience for "art" has always been very small in comparison to that for entertainment. There would be no film industry at all without the popular shows that people want just for diversion or escape--the vast majority just aren't that serious about it. Those many profitable productions actually pay for the innovative, often elitist works, which don't generate enough revenue to keep a film industry alive. It's extremely rare for an artistic film to also be a broad commercial success.

And anyway, when that happens, others immediately start copying it and eventually you have another tired trend that runs down. New Hollywood wasn't killed by Star Wars, it died because society changed, because people got tired of watching negative, depressing movies. Plus the fact that most of its talent went crazy and then couldn't find their way out of the drug fog.

When one of those otaku shows gets made, it doesn't replace an artistic work. Rather it enables someone, sometime to make one. There is no opportunity lost, because the studio is there to make money. They know what sells and wouldn't have picked your artsy show anyway. That's the way the entertainment business works. Hell, especially anime, which is just popular, commercial TV anyway, exactly the same as U.S. live TV. The fact that it's animated is incidental in business terms.

Now... it's true that film follows trends, and it's pretty obvious that the current anime trend doesn't cater to your tastes. It's possible that 10 years from now, there will be lots of shows that you like simply because there might be less "otaku" shows, and you will feel differently. Certainly this decade's anime is a different mix than the 90's. A lot of other people might not agree with you at all, and be complaining about the latest popular genre or fad. I can say with full confidence that I would be looking elsewhere for entertainment if the bulk of series were soap opera mecha, for instance, or endless 3-episode-fight teen shonen shows rather than otaku comedies.

I don't see the current lack of quality in genre terms anyway. Pretty much everything sucks, except Shaft, and they can't do two things at once and finish an episode before it airs Wink. (It's not all that catastrophic, but we do apparently need some new blood in the business.)
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Manwards



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 194
Location: Leicester, England
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:29 am Reply with quote
I was so irked by "Endless Eight" that I was personally hoping that Kyoto Animation went bust, and we never got any more Haruhi ever again. Ah, well. Maybe I'll get lucky and the film will tank. You've got to be optimistic, right?

(Disclaimer: This is sarcasm. I adored "Endless Eight".)
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ninjapet



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 1517
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:44 am Reply with quote
Well in the long run does it matter about Haruhi sales?

Where getting the movie next year so who cares about wasting 8 episodes.

Any way I'm glad to see Bakemonogatari's 2nd arc is selling well, can't wait to see the DVD copy of the episodes
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Ktimene's Lover



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:42 am Reply with quote
You can't rule it being the best anime of this year because year isn't over yet. Maybe best so far this year. Also, I still think it being ecchi title contributed somewhat to its success.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:21 am Reply with quote
Manwards wrote:
I was so irked by "Endless Eight" that I was personally hoping that Kyoto Animation went bust, and we never got any more Haruhi ever again. Ah, well. Maybe I'll get lucky and the film will tank. You've got to be optimistic, right?

(Disclaimer: This is sarcasm. I adored "Endless Eight".)


First of all, for three quarters of its run Endless Eight didn't give us Haruhi either. I'll let you mull what I mean.

Secondly, if the sales figures had been bad, then the Disappearance of Haruhi movie would not have been cancelled anyway. It had been announced before the DVDs were released, and if you believe Kadokawa, they weren't expecting these sorts of sales.

Thirdly, for the record I don't want to see Kadokawa and Kyoto Animation go bust. Oh, I hate most of the latter's works, as well as their blind-as-a-bat fans, but I'm not being spiteful on this one. I just want the people who make Haruhi to also make a loss on this season. Reasons? Well, both to teach them not to screw with fans in the future, and to warn other companies off doing such mind-bogglingly outrageous behaviour. It wasn't art, it wasn't "edgy", it wasn't even entertaining beyond "spot the difference", which was boring for me anyway.

You have a similar attitude to the United States Government. You want to prop up under-performing (or just outright bad) companies because you don't want them to go belly-up. Which rather removes the incentive for said companies to actually perform, right? You are telling them that they don't have to make good Anime, because you want fans to buy their product no matter how good or bad.

Although as we have seen with these sales figures (getting marginally back on topic here), the fans will buy crap anyway. Six completely extraneous episodes, so three DVDs, and at Japan's prices that's more than two hundred New Zealand dollars (thanks XE) spent on drivel. I could buy seven DVDs with that sort of money, which is an entire season in singles or two brand-new boxsets. I could pay my power bill for a month. Or fill up my car three times. Or go to the cinemas fifteen times. I just cannot fathom how Otakus, who usually aren't the richest of folks, can spend that much money on something so boring, trite and unnecessary.

Madness. Just . . . just madness. If the worldwide sales also are strong (assuming anyone picks the season up for distribution), then . . . then . . . well I don't know. It would probably be the exact point that I metamorphosise into a cynical and jaded fan. I don't want that to happen, I really do not.
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vulcanraven01



Joined: 18 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:20 am Reply with quote
Nice to see Bakemonogatari on top again.
It truly was/is the best show of the year, and deserves its place on top.
Good to see Gintama continue to do so well entering it's 40th DVD volume release. It might not beat out the other shonen shows for TV ratings, but it creams them in DVD sales.
However, the Haruhi sales sicken me and sums up everything that's wrong with the anime scene. How on earth people can buy that Endless Eight crap is beyond me and will only encourage KyoAni to pull more stupid stunts like that. It should have killed the series, but instead we have the drones of mindless fans still going strong and now a movie!
Much rather see something like Eden of the East doing well...
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redcar



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:03 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

Putting money into bad shows is just as worse for the industry as not putting money in at all.

See the above post by pparker.

dtm42 wrote:

Excuse me, but do you really believe that Kadokawa and Kyoto Animation did not plan for eight episodes? Endless Eight -> eight episodes. It isn't a coincidence. Also, I don't see how a company can make the sort of mistake needed to mess up the episodes.

I'll concede the possibility that they took the risky move of stretching the material to allow for more seasons (as well as a movie) in the future. Perhaps they are worried since Nagaru Tanigawa has had the series on hiatus for years and seems to be working on something else now. Making more than half a series out of nearly identical material, however, just sounds to me like something that people with adequate planning would not do. A few episodes, perhaps, but eight? I find it more likely that when told they needed to stretch the material, some uncreative mind took the easy (and foolish) route of extending a time-loop concept over many episodes, making it eight to give the illusion that they knew what they were doing. While this may have been done in the interest of making the same amount of money over less material, I'm pretty sure they would have found a better way that involved not alienating the fanbase had they been intelligent about it. I refuse to believe that they did it to purposely "screw with the fans," since that would be in nobody's best interests.

dtm42 wrote:

I don't want to see Kadokawa and Kyoto Animation go bust. Oh, I hate most of the latter's works, as well as their blind-as-a-bat fans, but I'm not being spiteful on this one. I just want the people who make Haruhi to also make a loss on this season. Reasons? Well, both to teach them not to screw with fans in the future, and to warn other companies off doing such mind-bogglingly outrageous behaviour. It wasn't art, it wasn't "edgy", it wasn't even entertaining beyond "spot the difference", which was boring for me anyway.

dtm42 wrote:

Although as we have seen with these sales figures (getting marginally back on topic here), the fans will buy crap anyway. Six completely extraneous episodes, so three DVDs, and at Japan's prices that's more than two hundred New Zealand dollars (thanks XE) spent on drivel. I could buy seven DVDs with that sort of money, which is an entire season in singles or two brand-new boxsets. I could pay my power bill for a month. Or fill up my car three times. Or go to the cinemas fifteen times. I just cannot fathom how Otakus, who usually aren't the richest of folks, can spend that much money on something so boring, trite and unnecessary.

As I implied before, your trash is undoubtedly someone else's treasure. And why should you care that people put their money in directions of which you disapprove? It's their money, and the money which keeps the industry going. If you want more money going to better things that aren't supported by thousands of faithful fans, then why not get the hudreds of thousands of less faithful fans online to pay for what they do not? That would surely encourage growth all across the board, and the things you consider worthwhile would gain more support as well.

dtm42 wrote:
I mean, what's the point of saving the industry if all that's being made is garbage?

Whether or not it's garbage aside, I often feel the same way. I honestly wouldn't mind if the industry died, so tired am I of people complaining about lack of quality in shows while assuming that money grows on trees. Perhaps a collapse of the industry would, in your words, "teach them."


Last edited by redcar on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hissatsu01



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:31 am Reply with quote
I'm going to have to disagree with everybody about Haruhi sales. I've made it clear in the past that I despised Endless Eight, and it put me off the series entirely. Sold the DVDs, won't be buying any future releases, won't even be watching. I did hope that sales would be poor - I got my wish. Seeing as how it still sells more than most successful series, that may sound a bit off.

To those happy with Endless Eight's "good" sales: Sales are down significantly from the first season, about 40 - 60% depending on the volume so far. Somewhere at the Kadokawa offices: "Let's make it eight episodes, you said! They'll love it, you said! F**king moron!" That's several hundred thousand to a over a million dollars in potential DVD sales lost. Endless Eight didn't kill the franchise, but it knocked it out of the statosphere where it used to sit. I have no doubt that the bean counters have noticed that their cash cow went on a diet.

To those upset with Endless Eight's "good" sales: What did you expect? Haruhi's first season was huge. There was no way it wouldn't sell well compared to the average series. Between diehard series fans, completists, people who actually enjoyed Endless Eight, and masochists, it's obviously going to sell quite a bit. To expect that it wouldn't sell is unrealistic.

And before anybody explains away Haruhi S2's lower sales than the first season with a weakened global economy and a weaker anime industry than a few years ago when S1 was released, note that at the same time as Haruhi is being sold, Bakemonogatari Vol.1 has combined Blu-ray/DVD sales of close to 70,000 so far (66,000 as of last week), and first week sales of Vol. 2 (58,000) are higher than Vol. 1's first week sales. It's flirting with best sales ever for TV anime since DVD was introduced, behind only Gundam SEED (I did my part, Vol 1 & 2 Blu-rays in my hands, the rest on pre-order). Doesn't look like it's having trouble selling in today's marketplace.
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Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:49 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I just think you are confusing entertainment with art.


You seem to be suggesting that there was something entertaining about the bulk of Endless Eight aside from watching the firestorm on the blogs and forums.

Okay, so #5.285714 got 12,708. And the first Endless Eight disc, #5.142857, debuted at 14,104, then dropped off the measured charts the next week. (Why are they 36/7 and 37/7?)

Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody got 25,397 after two weeks, and its sales definitely dropped more slowly. So yeah, this is a drop of like 40% or more. I was expecting more, considering how many of the customers presumably already know from the Internet what they're getting, but this is big as it is. The Sigh DVDs should provide some more useful data.

Did anyone ever figure out why all this happened? One theory that occurs to me now is serious miscommunication that led to Disappearance being slated for both the series and a movie, and when the mistake was uncovered, it was too late to adapt other stories (Snow Mountain Syndrome, Charmed at First Sight LOVER, The Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru, Where did the Cat Go, or just Intrigue), and the only thing anyone could think of was to extend the time loop.

You know what gets me, though? It's still outselling Eden of the East by a wide margin.
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redcar



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Shay Guy wrote:
Did anyone ever figure out why all this happened? One theory that occurs to me now is serious miscommunication that led to Disappearance being slated for both the series and a movie, and when the mistake was uncovered, it was too late to adapt other stories (Snow Mountain Syndrome, Charmed at First Sight LOVER, The Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru, Where did the Cat Go, or just Intrigue), and the only thing anyone could think of was to extend the time loop.

I like this theory better than any I've heard yet, even better than the one I said earlier about them stretching the material. There's plenty for them to use for years to come regardless of whether Tanigawa makes more, and KyoAni isn't usually known for skimping on prodcution costs, so I wouldn't be surprised if something like this was actually the case. We'll probably never know, though.
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