Forum - View topicPolitical attitudes of GitS.
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Rustem
 Posts: 12 Location: Seattle, WA |
|
|||
|
From reading some of the manga (over half) and watching the anime (most) of the entire GITS body of work, I've noticed that the main characters (in Section 9) tend to display a sort of apathetic, status quo attitude about what they do.
While they show disgust for terrorists that commit violence (Angel's Feathers), they sometimes sympathize with the more benign elements they are tasked with hunting down (the Laughing Man). They are constantly exposed to the corruption of the government they work for, and while they work to expose the particular individuals, they seem to take the idea of extreme corruption in every level of their government as a matter of course. They seem to show no indignation at the instituionalized inequalities they know are in place (Dejima refugees versus the average Japanese citizen). In the manga theyre even more talkative with their points of view, showing contempt for anti-violence demonstrations, etc. I cant remember any more really good examples atm, but I seem to remember the manga being either Shirow's real outlet for his feelings on the situation, or at least him being more demonstrative of how his characters feel about the world around them. Anyone else have any thoughts? Am I missing the point of the show (theyre just skilled people doing a job, theyre not paid to think about it) or are Shirow and the other writers trying to say something about modern politics (its ugly and corrupt and the first world literally lives off of the blood and sweat of everyone else, but its the best youre gonna get)? And while I realize perfectly well that the country I live in (US) is in its place because of the dastardly shit its pulled with other countries and ethnicities, Im too damn lazy to really even get my hackles up about it. I have total liberal fatigue. omg parentheses all over the place |
||||
|
||||
|
Kelly
Posts: 868 Location: New York City |
|
|||
|
I think it's more a matter of the type of show GITS is. It's sort of like most of the crime and forensics procedurals that are so popular in the U.S. now - the story itself is arguably the star rather than the characters, and it tends to be more intellectual than emotional. We're presented with information about the moral dilemmas of the characters' jobs, and largely allowed to draw our own conclusions. We do get some hints of the characters as human beings though - Togusa in particular - that help us connect with them a bit.
For what you're talking about, I would highly recommend Now and Then, Here and There - which is a Sci-fi twist on the type of horrendous things happening in Darfur and other areas of the world as we type. |
||||
|
||||
sirgalahadthegreat
 Posts: 108 |
|
|||
|
Wow, my kind of thread. I love GITS and will talk abt it with anyone.
As for the topic at hand, what Rustem has pointed out about the anime is not entirely true. The characters in GITS do talk about the political future of the nation. For example, near the end of GITS:SAC 2nd gig, Batou has a long talk with the perpetrator of the Dejima rebellion. There we find many things that reveal to us a lot about the political concerns of Section 9. I think Rustem is partially right, though, because part of the attitude of the Section 9 members stems from the fact that they leave the 'politicking' to the politicians (and Daisuke Aramaki). It is a well-known and well-documented fact that when soldiers play politician, all hell breaks loose. So that could be the reason why Section 9 takes to the refuge of professionalism, because special soldiers like them know a lot of dirty stuff about a lot of dirty people, but may choose not to reveal them. |
||||
|
||||
Azathrael
 Posts: 745 |
|
|||
|
I think GitS was very realistic in the fact that the characters really didn't do anything about the corruption. They're a specialized police force, not anime heroes who go against all evil and try to fix the world. It's just like the world as it is, right now (except the whole future setting). In comparison, look at Darker than BLACK. The protagonist goes against corruption and you end up with a very fictional ending that doesn't reflect reality at all.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Jakobus77
Posts: 2 |
|
|||
|
"In the manga theyre even more talkative with their points of view, showing contempt for anti-violence demonstrations"
Thats because they hate hippee's like most in the real world, Hippees are usually just looked upon as societies lazy whiners. I also personally like that the characters are kept politically neutral almost like they don't care, because if they sided with political parties or fringe groups (like the refugees) then they would be less likable. There "not caring" and their attitude of its just a job sometimes I like it sometimes I don't make them cool. |
||||
|
||||
|
abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
|
|||
Hmm... what an interesting argument. Let's see... you obviously dislike hippies. So, from that sample (one person, maybe some of your circle of acquaintances), you generalize to "most in the real world". This is an example of the logical fallacy known as insuffient sampling, or hasty generalization. Of course, it could also be that you have an actual agenda of hatred for hippies. In that case... well, let's put it to the test by substitution: "Thats because they hate {Jews/lesbians/Republicans/ANN moderators} like most in the real world, {Jews/lesbians/Republicans/ANN moderators} are usually just looked upon as society's lazy whiners." How does that sentence look now? Palatable? No? In the future, please be aware that your brain has more uses than keeping your ears apart. - abunai |
||||
|
||||
Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
|
|||
|
Oddly enough, I never found Ghost in the Shell to be too terribly political. Very social, almost to the point of being an anthropologic referendum, but not necessarily political.
Shirow - and the people who've interpreted Shirow like Mamoru Oshii (who's about as conservative as the day is long, if you've watched either his live action stuff or Jin Roh) - tends towards digging into the thoughts and trends that create political climates. Much like the old guard of science fiction authors, he's more preoccupied with humanity as a whole, rather than studying individual little instances. I think it's this universal approach to humanity that's given Shirow's work its longevity. Let's face it, what other hentai artist turned manga-ka from the 80's still makes people jump to attention this many years later? |
||||
|
||||
Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||
I found the original movie to be more socially oriented, but Stand Alone Complex definitely throws more political drama into the mix. I like it, though, because it shows that the almost superhuman, above the law, totally awesome Section 9 still has rules and regulations and opposing forces to consider, and people who can tell them what to do. The storyline in 2nd GIG was based almost entirely on political themes, and it was fascinating to watch.
Amen to that! I think I've said this on some other thread, but Masamune Shirow is the only manga-ka on earth who can make me think by displaying images of extremely beautiful women in tight clothes. Also, another thing I think is appealing about his work is the characters he throws together. If you look at the team from GitS, you've got seven people with near inhuman abilities who are all perfectly capable of taking care of themselves (unlike most teams in anime where the characters make up for each other's weaknesses), yet they still display excellent coordination as a group, especially for such a common mishmash of stereotypes :p And that sort of went off topic in a blaze of fangirlish geekiness. To go back to the OP, I think that the apathetic attitude of many of the members of Section 9 stems from the fact that (in the source material, at least) they have no choice but to work for the police/military, since parts of them are government property. Also, keep in mind that most of the main characters have been in the military for years; due to this or other circumstances, they've seen some pretty heavy stuff (as evidenced in the Jungle Cruise, Poker Face, and Affection episodes of SAC - three of my favorites), so by now it's just kind of 'what we do' to them and they accept it. You'll notice that Togusa, who is probably the most idealistic member of the team, was only a police investigator before signing on with Section 9, and has a family of his own. For everyone else, the job is all they have, so it'd be natural for them to have a sort of blah attitude toward it. Personally, I love how they make all of the gunfighting, terrorism, and mind games seem so 'ho-hum, just another day'. It's so freaking cool <3 |
||||
|
||||
shmolf
 Posts: 2 |
|
|||
I believe that the study of anthropology and social culture is an asset in politics. I believe that the GITS series presents examples of social issues and situations, but includes political aspects because of its close correlation. GITS does seem to have an overwhelming abundance to cultural referencing and concepts. Catcher in the Rye by Salinger, is a book referenced in the Stand Alone series and was referring to the quote of the laughing man's logo. This book was not required reading in my school, perhaps because it has been black-listed so many times, so I've only just began reading it. The point is, that this book has social controversy, and any other references to our reality probably have some social value. |
||||
|
||||
LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
|
|||
|
By GiTS being a science fiction it has to talk about either the past or the present (Science fiction stories don't talk about the future- source Science Fiction by Adam Roberts) Often I find Science fiction to be like a looking glass to political models, this one being a modern element talking about representative democracy and "black ops" within them. Often is their references to overall party goals that maybe the speaker moves against or special interest groups (military, police, big business) also are covered.
Also looking at the Second Season we can see a critique of sorts to immigration or responses to foreigners in there so is an interesting angle to look at and what it says, mostly how we can say that for most groups they had a fear of other that the immigrants represent but Major Kusanagi eventually moves into an acceptance as basically she see part of herself within them (represented by Kuze) and can lead to an inference of that we are all the same or we all have something in common if you want to go there. |
||||
|
||||
|
shmolf
Posts: 2 |
|
|||
|
I would agree that everyone has something in common, but it is a very mild gesture. But Rustem makes a valid point, that inequality is recognized and accepted. Inequality refers to the wealth, power, and almost any other social issue. The only equality I can see is that which the Major pointed out in the beginning of the first episode.
Everyone has a responsibility was the gist of my understanding. Throughout the series, there are examples of people who are irresponsible through greed or power. I would have to suffice to say that in the ideological sense, we are all equal, and that is the understanding I receive from the example of the Major and Kuze. This thought seems very pure, but I would not exaggerate its emphasis within the series. There are many other topics such as the use of a immigrants as a fear tactic as LordRedhand stated. |
||||
|
||||
Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
|
|||
|
The reason that there is so much politics in the series is because it's a political drama. And the reason that these scandals are always these huge conspiracies is most likely because it makes a good story. I'm not saying that the writers aren't showing some of their political intentions. In fact I'm quite sure they are. But I think first and for most they want to make a good political drama. I like to describe Ghost in the Shell as the anime equivalent of Tom Clansy books. But I'd have to say that I like Ghost in the Shell more. In terms of a political driven story you can't really beat it.
|
||||
|
||||
LatwPIAT
 Posts: 26 |
|
|||
|
Doesn't the show itself somewhat discuss this at one point? I think it's in the episode with the Russian mobster (Curzokova) where Togusa makes a statement about moral right and wrong, whereupon Batou lectures him on the importance of staying non-political in their line of work.
I always felt that SAC had quite a political tilt to Section 9. They don't judge and aren't prejudiced against the refugees, and seem sympathetic, even towards the suicide bomber. When I factor in the stereotypical Japanese xenophobia, this becomes all the more powerful of a political statement. Also, Oshii had the Major come with a few nasty foreign-political comments in the 1995 film. Granted, it's hard to tell who they're directed towards, but I think it's the USA. |
||||
|
||||
|
LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
|
|||
|
You can feel a "not-so-friendly" vibe from the series with terms like "American Empire" and the corruption of the FBI agents.
But looking at them in another way, the FBI agents represent what Section 9 could easily be or become, and in the same way their own nation. In one aspect it is showing a negative aspect to our relationship, but that they don't want to fully cut ties but more of stand as equals, thus the series going into negotiations with trade and defense pacts, allowing FBI agents to enter and leave the country, with escorts to protect them/ "mind" them. |
||||
|
||||
zhir
 Posts: 353 Location: Nampa, ID, USA |
|
|||
Well, it's CIA. FBI is internal only. While I think that the first season's CIA xenophobia can be justified the way you said, 2nd Gig's is harder to do. spoiler[The failure of the PM to contact the American Empire at ALL seems to imply that the American government as a whole is directly involved in Gouda's plan, or at the very least, supports the coup] |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group