Forum - View topicNEWS: 2 Anime Films Submitted for Possible Oscar Nominations
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kazenoyume
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Actually it is, so far. Madagascar 2 could beat it in the long run, but that would be less a testament to Wall-E's quality (which is impeccable, best movie of the year so far bar none) and more to the American public's consumption of drivel filled sequels. As for awards, Cars did win the golden globe, and the Annie Award as well. Ratatouille won the Oscar, the golden globe, and was nominated for five Oscars. Considering that Cars was considered the only "down" in a string of 95%+ critic-rated films since Finding Nemo, I think you're imagining things. As for "releasing a movie every year," Pixar's hardly the only company that does that. And Dreamworks generally has the distinction of releasing 2 CGI turds a year. And I'd like to see more foreign films nominated, but honestly I feel that 2002 and 2005 were the only years that anime films deserved to win. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15550 |
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kaze: No, it isn't this year's biggest hit. Also, Ratatouille still couldn't beat Shrek or do well domestically.
And while it's true that Pixar is not solely guilty of milking its products, it's clear that the way they keep trying to top themselves artistically, rather than just be consistently entertaining, is taking its toll on their image of appealing to mass audiences. Nowadays, you have to like Pixar, or you're just some cretin off the street who can't appreciate "quality" animation. [Though, to me, the last quality American animated film was A Scanner Darkly.] Before that, you just went to one of their flicks to experience the wonders of crowd-pleasing family entertainment in a market which tended to be bereft of it, even at the Disney machine. As for DW, say what you want about some of their older stuff, but at least they're trying to expand beyond the "talking objects and animals explore stuff" gimmick. And they even took in Nick Park for a while, while Pixar continues to let Disney ruin its classics with direct-to-video sequels and spin-offs, even though they promised that would end when they were allowed to run the place. 
Oh, and if you think 2002 and 2005 were the only good years for anime movies, what about 2001 for VHD: Bloodlust, 2004 for Millennium Actress and Tokyo Godfathers, and 2006 for Paprika? |
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Animehermit
 Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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Because those are horrible movies, I am not even sure why Igor is on the list for possible nomination, as that was one of the worst films to come out this year. |
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kazenoyume
Posts: 425 |
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[quote="GATSU"]kaze:
Woah, what? So now instead of being gimmicky they're "artistic" and this is costing them? How is trying to top themselves artistically (read: make a better movie every time), a bad thing. You're right that some of Pixar's more recent offerings (as in, Ratatouille) haven't held the same appeal to three year olds that some of their other titles have, but that's just them breaking away from the creed that animated movies are for little kids, and that should be their prime appeal. No, Pixar wants to make movies that are good movies, regardless of content. And if they have to sacrifice the attention span of a few three year olds to do it, so be it. That doesn't make the movies any less brilliant. It might just get them a long-deserved best picture nomination. People act like these movies should not be just for kids, but when Pixar tries to make something more adult (and not in an innuendo-tastic Shrek sort of way) they get flack for it.
See above.
I didn't say they were the only "good years." 2003 was Tokyo Godfathers, and I'll give you that it should have been nominated (although I don't agree it should have won). I absolutely do not agree that VHD deserved a nomination. Not even close. I do agree with Paprika, and I wouldn't have disagreed with it winning either. I meant to mention that one in my post but it slipped my mind. But please remember that a lot of that blame rests squarely on the company releasing the film here. If they do not push and campaign for a nomination, it won't get noticed. It won't get nominated. There a a million movies up for nomination every year. Voters don't have time to watch them all, and they're going to watch what's brought to their attention. The companies involved here did not do the work.
I was referring to the USA box office, because WALL-E still hasn't opened in some very major international markets yet. It won't open in Japan until December, for example. And nothing compares to Shrek gross-wise (it's a mega-franchise), but actually Ratatouillle had a TREMENDOUS international gross that put it very high on the highest grossing Pixar film list. 200 million domestic is hardly much to scoff at (for any other CGI studio this would be considered an enormous hit and would probably garner a sequel. Even for Dreamworks it would be considered one of their absolute biggest hits), but it absolutely exploded on the international scene.
Considering that 99% of Dreamworks' films (read: everything but the Shrek movies) are about talking animals on adventures, I don't even need to say anything more. Opinion on quality aside, that statement is plainly incorrect. By studio ratio, Pixar has far less "talking animals on adventures" movies. So they have that upcoming project, Monsters vs. Aliens. Okay. So that's one more movie that's out of the box for them, but I've seen no sign that it won't revolve around the usual humor gimmicks and pop culture jokes that no one will even get in ten years. And correct me if I'm wrong but Shrek included, they haven't made a single movie that doesn't have talking animals or objects, right?
Wrong. The only projects currently in the works are ones that were already in production when John Lasseter took the helm. Yes, Little Mermaid 3 was terrible. However, when they said no more DTV sequels, they weren't including any already in production. Have you heard of any other ones that are coming out soon? Any Snow White II or Aladdin VII? No. Because they're not happening. Disneytoon is still around and may be producing other DTV projects, but they won't be DTV sequels.
Who they dumped immediately when his movies failed to live up to box-office standards. Wow, what a commitment to artistry
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GATSU
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kaze:
Well, now, they're just basically saying, "We're better than everyone else, so who cares what anyone thinks?", instead of, "What other directions are there for us to take?" or "What other ideas are there for us to explore?"
Fair enough. But why don't they want to fully break out of that shell, if they're so interested in expanding their audience?
I understand the appeal of "for older audiences" not necessarily meaning that the content is dirtier; but I still feel like their flicks are just grown-up versions of the same stuff we've seen before, rather than anything new. I can get more diversity out of anime, and even from their friends at Ghibli.
Yeah, Millennium Actress should've won, but TG would've sufficed to honor the guy's work in general. I'll also agree that distributors need to do more than just "Hey, can I fill this out so my animated film can get noticed in the trades?"
Actually, it's played pretty much everywhere.
True, but it already cost around $200 million, so there's not much profit here.
I said "Explore stuff", which means the animals in Pixar movies just have conversations and solve mysteries.
Tinkerbell?
Pixar looked the other way when Disney laid off its 2-d artists, even though they keep claiming that they'll try to "bring the animation style back" with future projects. |
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Vapors
 Posts: 139 Location: Bay Area |
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I already noted in my post that I didn't think either of the three movies would be nominated much less win , but my point was that if two had been put on the "eligible to be nominated" list, that would bring the total movies to 16 and increase the number of candidates from 3 to 5 allowing a slightly better chance that the smaller or foreign animated films could get better recognition. A flim like Waltz with Bashir as well as possibly Sky Crawlers would have been able to get in. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I've noticed adverts on the tube for Waltz with Bashir. It carries a BBFC 18 rating over here. For (non pornographic) animated material that's quite a high classification. It must have some really gruesome content to have received that.
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bugmenot2
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enurtsol
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It's getting a lot of buzz from the avante garde crowd for its subject matter. So well that Israel is also submitting it for Best Foreign Language Film.
I noticed. The list of notable absentees include: The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything Space Chimps Star Wars: Clone Wars Roadside Romeo Fear of the Dark Azur and Asmar: the Prince's Quest
Those don't matter. It was considered courtesy just to submit eligible films in order to get to magic #16 and increase the possible # of nominees (up to 5) and thus giving spotlight to more of their peers (or even themselves if submitting more than 1 film).
Besides, each movie is worked by a different team and takes 3-4 years cycle, the first 2 years of which is devoted primarily just for the story (that's how much they prioritize it), hardly any animating. So it's not like they only spend a year to make each movie. Also, their early financial situation (back after they put all their eggs in one basket - Toy Story, Pixar's Final Fantasy, in that if it didn't succeed, no more Pixar) dictated they cannot just be working on one movie at a time and put everything in one basket. So, that's how they've been working ever since, starting with 3 or 4 good directors earning experience together.
Which many animators don't consider animaton, BTW. Miyazaki himself would scoff at that idea. 
Kung Fu Panda was also helped by China and its 1.3 billion soul-searching people. But here's my list of why WALL-E should be a hit in Japan: 
1. It's about robots. 2. It's about robots in love. 3. WALL-E is a weak nothing-going-for-him sweet romantic packrat geek; EVE is a dominant goddess-powered never-propositioned kinda-tsundere. 4. There's hardly any dialogue to lose in translation particularly in the first act, ~1/3rd of the movie. 5. WALL-E already mispronounces EVE's name as EV-uh. 6. The two protagonists just keep saying their names. (Have you noticed that Japanese charas say names way too often?) 7. A future environmental moral message that'd make Hayao Miyazaki blush. 8. A social criticism about the hazards of over-reliance in technology.
Besides, Lasseter meant no more "cheapquels" (sequels for sequels sake to make money). If there were to be sequels, there must be a good purpose for it (like more story to tell) and done by the same team who did the original (so no sequel if the same director is not available, kinda like how a mangaka is the only one who can continue his/her own manga).
There were well-known animosities during the production too.
C'mon, Miyazaki thinks the same way, and it's working out just fine there.
Talk about limiting audience, Miyazaki says he makes films for 10-yr-olds, and he doesn't care what anybody else thinks. If older folks happen to like his film too, then so be it, but he doesn't make it for them. 
Silly, much of the animation profit isn't made in the theaters anymore. It's on video sales and merchandise. It's already said that the theatrical release is just advertisement for the merchandise.
Tinkerbell is being launched for the Fairies brand for 6-10 yr-old girls because Disney doesn't have a brand after their Princesses brand for 1-5 yr-old girls. They want product lines that grow up with their audience, kinda like how there are manga lines for kids, shoujo, seinen, josei, and beyond.
They are bringing 2D back to Disney (The Princess and The Frog), but they started by trimming down the fat. Pixar can't do anything about Disney's believing 2D is dead before the merger. Whodda believe a 3D company is the one saving the 2D industry!
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GATSU
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enurtsol:
Anyone who produces those pieces of crap in the first place probably doesn't care about helping anyone but themselves.
Knowing Miyazaki, he'd probably consider Advent Children to be less likely to fit the category of animation than "A Scanner Darkly".
Outside of pricey Asian productions, the yuan doesn't mean that much at the international box office yet.
Possibly because they get enough of it in their own media, Japanese movie-goers are surprisingly less into intellectual sci-fi and social messages than you'd imagine. [Though they did save A.I....] In fact, I imagine they saw "I, Robot" for the same reason as the average movie-goer here: to see Will Smith blow up stuff. Dunno how that'll affect Wall-E, but I imagine Dixar is gonna have to sell the film differently over there than they did here.
So what about The Little Mermaid-Ariel's Beginning?
Miyazaki actually comes off humble about his work, considering he could be resting on his laurels. I've never really heard him completely satisfied with each production. He's always trying to improve, even though he likes trashing the competition.
He makes films for 10 year olds, but with a perspective of experience, not just a perspective of "How can we make the CG backgrounds brighter or busier in this next one?"
Believe me. If a flick costs a fortune, a studio wants to make a profit on the big screen, and doesn't want to resort to bailing out a failure through home video.
But it's basically dumbing down whatever made the character appealing, in order to "hook" kids on Disney merchandise. You know, like Kingdom Hearts.
They don't really seem that serious with that one. It's more like an after-thought to me. [/quote] |
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Arakai
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1. wall-e
2. the sky crawlers 3. any shit japan excels in both 2d n 3d nuff said! n holy ****!! how did the f*ck did "Fly To The Moon" get there? |
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enurtsol
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Animators still consider themselves a community, just like anime fans do.
Well, Pixar and Lasseter are actually changing Miyazaki's mind about 3DCG, so long as there's actual drawing involved.
Hey, US$26 million in China is nothing to scoff at! That's more than it did in most other countries, including Japan and Europe.
We'll see. There's a reason robot or environmental anime succeed over there that flop in America. So if even America can digest those in WALL-E, the Japanese should eat it up.
Wasn't that already in production then? 
Miyazaki has a healthy ego, like many of the best directors/authors/artists/creators.
Pixar does try to improve on the technical side of CG animation (they did start out as the SFX group of George Lucas' studio), but that's still separate from the story, which is still their priority. Gainax experiments on animation techniques too, but people don't tie that with their stories. Both of them do these to explore new ways to tell a story. (And if it wasn't for experimentation, where would we be without the worm's eye-view in anime/manga that's not easy to do in real life?)
Every movie takes a loss in Hollywood accounting anyways, but theatre profit is becoming the lesser portion of the overall profit pie, particularly with animation marketed to kids and families.
IMHO, Tinkerbell didn't have much going for her to begin with to dumb down. She wasn't that complex a character that even anime fans could write essays on. (Really, I don't see people debating about Tinkerbell the way anime fans debate some anime characters.)
At least from the animation circles, there's a lot going on behind the scenes. It's Pixar's promise, after all, for taking over Disney Animation. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15550 |
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enurtsol:
Those aren't animators-just art school student hacks they hired to save money.
I imagine it didn't so well in Japan, since they already have a kung fu panda in Ranma.
I think you're confusing it with that other Little Mermaid spin-off.
Their stories are pretty basic, with most of the "depth" going to the animation.
Probably because Gainax doesn't really have any stories, just cutting and pasting classics and calling them homages. Anyway, I finally saw my first Pixar flick since the first Toy Story with Wall-E. [My mom was interested in it, because of the high IMDB score.] It's got nice animation and a charming story and characters, but I didn't feel that excited sitting through it. First of all, the movie seems to hammer in the point about how wasteful we are as a society, even though it's produced by a company working for a corporation which is partly responsible for that waste. It's the same type of irony of Idiocracy, where the creator of Beavis and Butthead has the gall to complain about the "dumbing down" of America. Then, rather than focus on the wonders of space travel and flight, it ends up being a parody of the sci-fi genre, when it should offer its own take on the theme. Finally, it ends up being a geek romance flick, rather than a real adventure movie. If Tokikake was competing, it'd sweep the floor from Wall-E in an instant, guaranteed. |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14886 |
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Be careful what you say till you actually engage them personally. They could claim the same thing about your profession from afar.
Nah, they just don't like wire-fu. IIRC, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon didn't do too well there either.
Well, we'll just have to part ways here then. WALL-E reminds me of the charms of Miyazaki's early movies, which at the core are pretty basic romantic too but executed magnificently. Furthermore, I don't think WALL-E ever misrepresented itself as a sci-fi adventure. From the first 40 non-dialogue minutes on, it was all about WALL-E and Eve, Eve and WALL-E. But then again, I watch all kinds of animation, not just 90% anime. So I admit not being partial to any set of tropes.
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yojimboray
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I am saddened to see that the anime nominations are so weak this year. Both Stranger and Skycrawler are beautiful to look at, but unfortunately, what they also have in common are totally uncompelling story lines.
My nominee for best animated work this year was not a theatrical release but "just" a tv show- Moribito, Guardian of the Spirit. Excellent animation combined with a great plot and well-defined characters- I have to go through 7-8 mediocre animes each year to find a gem like this but it's always worth it! |
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