Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16963 |
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IMO I think that Shigure can provide that listening ear so well as he has dealt with more emotional drama then most of the other characters. Few can match his emotional and relationship woes. I think that's a good reason why he can be neutral and give Kyo honest advice as I feel he can sympathize with him more then many of the others can but realizes the need to be honest and more impartial. Oh and yea I finally jumped in here after months of saying I would hehe. I've actually been following the thread avidly since page 80 and debating about when to jump in since around 110 or so. I told Aya and Fighter I would many moons ago so I finally did. Better late then never right? |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Welcome! And it's about bloody time too! |
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aya_honda
 Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I can't believe this: he finally kept his promise!   As you said: we were fooled along time that you would join us and I can't believe that you have finally did it, you.... you.... OK, I made a note in my agenda: psycho has finally joined the club. Oh, well, welcome! 
Coming back to the topic, which is quite difficult after this nice surprise, I think that Shigure is one of the people to look at Kyo in an honest way, even though of course it might sound really hurtful and cruel at times. For instance when Shigure tells Tohru spoiler[that the zodiacs feel completely superior to the cat because they don't have such a miserable life as Kyo did. Moreover he said it with a smirk on his face that I would have gladly punched him. But on the other hand I think that Shigure was just very glad to say it: I think that he was tired to pretend anymore and though I believe that to a certain extent he cares for Kyo, he said the awful truth to Tohru mostly because he was finally able to atone the sins of all the zodiacs and at the same time finally put an honesty to his actions. ] Moreover, like the others have mentioned before me, there's a lot of comedy between the two of them, mostly starting from the fact that Kyo doesn't know a good joke when he hears one and at the same time because Shigure's words have always something hidden and a deep irony. But it was really nice to read the chapter when spoiler[they go to the lake house to make Hatori forget about Kana's wedding and Shigure ends up tormenting Kyo with the Jason's story. It sounded really nice. Plus, wasn't Shigure the one that invented the fact that Kyo fought with bears in the mountains to train himself and everybody else started to believe this at some point?]
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16963 |
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I think he does care for Kyo, and basically everyone else for the most part, because despite his often hidden ulterior motives he simply wishes to be happy. Plus I can honestly say that if I were in his shoes I'd feel a bit superior/better then Kyo. I mean honestly would you really want to go through the mess that Kyo has?There's nothing wrong with being grateful it wasn't you IMHO. Now rubbing it in Kyo's face would put Shigure on the Sohma hit list I have.
 Being honest though isn't the same thing and I would think in Kyo's position I'd respect Shigure for at least being honest and not lying to my face.
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Hmm... Interesting point. I don't know if I would go as far to say Shigure cares about Kyo. I think he tolerates Kyo, as long as Kyo is useful to his purposes. Otherwise, I think Kyo's existence doesn't matter to Shigure. I think the only people Shigure truly cares about as friends are Hatori and Ayame.
True. In my opinion it's an ugly part of human nature that we're always looking for someone worse off that ourselves, so we can feel superior. I know I'm guilty of it. I get the impression that the zodiac curse is that feeling on human growth hormone. Oh, and welcome! I'm glad to have another person interested in participating! |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I think that this is natural somehow; we always think that bad things happen only to us and then we get to meet others and find out that there are people out there that have a worse life than we do and therefore we get to feel, I would say, not supperior but just lucky. And this is what happened with the jyuunishi and Shigure is one of them. Because Shigure is one of the unlucky jyuunishi as well: spoiler[ the woman that he loves has real mental issues and torments absolutely everybody and then she sleeps with another man, which I believe that it was the worst thing that it could have possibly happened for such a possessive person as Shigure. And then he sleeps as a retaliation with Akito's mom and of course he gets kicked out of the house because let's face it, he didn't make a big secret out of it. On top of it all, the curse continues and he feels like he can't do anything but wait and see what happens, wanting so much to save Akito and yet unable to do anything...for the moment. ] I think that this sums it up pretty much. 
But when compared to Kyo's situation, Shigure's situation seems quite ideal. There's the guy whose motherspoiler[commited suicide and she was never to accept him in his true form. Then his father accuses him of his mother's death and banishes. He is the one that draws firied eggs in the sand and the one who transforms himself in the Nekotsuki, doomed to be locked up when he is of age, never to fulfil his life, never to be loved by anyone. ] Compared to this, Shigure's life seems like a walk in the park. And not just Shigure's. Does it seem cruel? Yeah, of course it does and I still don't agree with it but there are few people in the zodiac that feel the same way. Let's remember that even the younger ones feel quite superior to him like Hiro. I know that Hiro feels superior to most of them, but remember the scene when spoiler[ he sees that Tohru likes Kyo and he says something like "Is it all right? I mean he is the cat..." That proved how people were taught to perceive the cat. ] Nonetheless, it is Shigure that offers Kyo a place to stay and the one that will be able to advise him, mostly through irony. Still I tend to agree with murph. I think that Kyo is simply a means to an end for Shigure and that he will simply keep him close as long as Kyo helps him. Shigure seems to me rather a ruthless character who would do anything for Akito.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16963 |
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Shigure may indeed be ruthless at times but I can relate a bit. Maybe it's just my own personal wishing here, as I can relate to Shigure more then most of the others personality wise, but I like to think he is not that ruthless. He's just had a very hard time and learned some rough lessons and has closed up some. I mean I can relate to that. I see his irony and his more jovial and joking side as a front. It's there to hide his pain not just from others but from himself. If you can make a joke your mind is distracted even for a moment from everything else that you're thinking about. I like to think that while he may act ruthless at times or seem like he's only looking out for himself/his personal goals that he does care at least a little bit for some of the others. Again, maybe it's just wishful thinking.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Welcome Psycho, it is indeed time that you make your entrance into the largest thread of the manga forum
 I agree that Shigure is one that really cannot bring himself to lie. But boy, can he sure twist the truth or what
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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We'll kick Haruhi's butt! |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Wow, aren't you in a warrior mood?!
psycho 101 wrote:
I think that nodoby can deny Shigure's complexity. I definetely perceive him as a very important peiece of the Fruits Basket plot, which is what makes him quite difficult to analyze. I hate to say this but there are some vital information missing from his description and those details might have helped us in determing more what he has been doing and what is in his mind like how the spoiler[ triangle between him, Akito and Kureno was born, how Shigure found out and how he decided to sleep with Ren. ] But nevertheless many times Shigure seems conscious of the other jyuunishi only when they are of any use to him. But it doesn't take away his charm and often his irony is well placed. I think that Shigure always tried to mantain Tohru close to Kyo and Yuki. There is also the scene when spoiler[Tohru gets a cold and Shigure's words make Kyo act for the first time and make him watch for Tohru. He always succeeds in making Kyo think about different aspects of his relationship with Tohru and perhaps] this is one Shigure's great merits. [/spoiler]
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Take it as one where he does think about people. He just doesn't think about the consequences of what may happen to them or their feelings in the end. And what's funny about when he does something, the finger is never pointed towards him.
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murph76
Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Well, with the addition of a new member to our regular contributors, this week we move along to Akito and Kureno.
A spoiler[hasty promise to a crying girl binds Kureno to Akito for longer than he might have imagined. He knows exactly the type of relationship he's in, too. He knows Akito would rather have Shigure, and he knows Akito can never love him. Nor, do I believe, does he love Akito. It is solely his promise that keeps him there. On Akito's side, keeping Kureno around must be a tremendous boost to her ego. Despite him being freed from the curse, she can still lord her power over him.] As usual, I look forward to everyone's posts! |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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To me this is definetely one of the most unfair relationships in the manga and one that at the same time lacks some details. Kureno's relationship with Akito starts spoiler[long before Akito is born, when the older jyuunishi feel Akito's birth and they sense that it will be someone special and indeed for them it has been proved to be like that. Then Kureno one day gets freed from the curse and he can't understand why. This is the moment when his seclusion will begin because Akito is too damn scared to let him besides to the other jyyunishi.]
Like murph has mentioned, spoiler[Kureno's presence is a boost to Akito's ego but at the same time I think that he maintains for Akito a constant sense of fear; he represents her worst nightmare: for her Kureno is all the jyuunishi getting free from the curse and not needing her anymore, letting her all alone. Indeed he might help becoming more confident in her power and in her strength to control all the other jyuunishi but I think that she knows deep down in her heart that it's nothing more than an illusion. Kureno does not stay there willingly...... correction: he does stay willingly because he doesn't feel capable of breaking that promise that has made of him a prisoner of this moody woman. ] For this I find somehow Kureno weak, especially because he knows that what he does is wrong and that he would better leave, especially when he meets Arisa. |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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I agree. I think that Kureno spoiler[is rather weak in that he doesn't tell Akito to shove off.]
This is one of the weirder, or at least, the most twisted relationship in the series...not counting spoiler[Shigure's and Akito's realtionship which is tied to Akito's and Kureno's.] It's just plain unhealthy. With Kureno spoiler[staying with Akito, it's just encouraging her madness.] |
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suna_suna
 Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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I feel very sorry for Kureno. He has the ironic misfortunespoiler[of being the only Juniishi freed from the curse, yet he is still seemingly the only one who could never escape. He is bound by his own kindness, not the curse, and he lso lies to the others because he was the only one who was freed. in his words "I was released so easily from the curse that everyone else still suffers from. I'm free. me, and no one else. I can go anywhere. I can love anyone. But...but that's exactly why. That's why I have to...be by Akito's side."]
on the flipside, Akitospoiler["loves" Kureno because he waas once a member of her precious Juniishi. but I think that she is also forcing herself to love him. They no longer have a bond, and therfore she shouldn'treally feel anyting for him. But her hatred of her mother and her obsession with the bond forced her to keep him with her. ] |
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