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mike_s_6
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 64
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:13 am
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Kaioshin_Sama wrote: | This makes sense. In Japanese media name sells more then anywhere else in the world and when you've got Yoko Kanno and Macross in the title you're bound to reach an audience, especially when it's pretty much the most pop like OST she's ever put out. Personally I think this is one of her more mediocore albums and wish she would go back to working with the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra rather then putting out pop songs almost anyone could produce.
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I seriously doubt that Kanno and Macross are both big names in Japan, ratings for Macross are not really good, and Kanno is really more popular overseas. But that's beside the point, I suppose it really did sell because these two have names, whether or not in Japan.
By the way, the orchestral stuff in the OST are performed by the Warsaw Philharmonic.
I suppose that the songs are deliberately pop (the type of pop music that *pops*, if you know what I mean), because it's an anime with pop stars. Look at what she did with the idol's songs in Macross Plus, it's totally different.
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There was this one website that pointed out four of her songs that sound very similar to other famous songs from around the world, but when I tried pointing it out to some people to show that she borderline lifts from other composers a lot of the time they chose to ignore me or diminish the fact despite the glaring evidence, because everyone knows Yoko Kanno is absolutely flawlessly brilliant right? RIGHT?!
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I don't know, but the first website I knew that absolutely talked about this to death, even saying some really nasty things about Kanno, is nothing less than a Yoko Kanno fan forum. I think it's really odd to think that the Kanno fans don't know about this issue of hers, I think they do, but choose not to discuss it because it's already tiring, to be frank. For one thing, I knew that someone would post something about this in this thread. It's THAT common.
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Westlo
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 1684
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:41 am
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To the people who think this is all due to Yoko Kanno. here is her two previous highest selling first week totals as well as Frontier for comparsion.
3 MACROSS FRONTIER 71633
14 COWBOY BEBOP Knockin’on heaven’s door O.S.T FUTURE BULES 08/29 24200
20 COWBOY BEBOP originalsoundtrack3 BLUE 05/01 17080
So it absolutely smashed her previous best selling albums. It's also #2 on the daily chart for the first day of it's second week.
The Diamond Crevasse single is at 87k sales and Triangler is around the high 70's.
Kaioshin_Sama wrote: | Also have to say that I've been rather disappointed with Yoko Kanno in recent years. |
Dude all of last year you were saying how great the Darker Than Black OST was (this stood out to me since most people thought it was disappointing) and now because "everyone loves Frontier" you conveniently forget this?
Can you explain your reasoning to me? Darker Than Black is your best OST of last year until you heard Gundam 00 and yet Frontier is mediocre? What bgm on the Darker than Black OST is anywhere near as good as The Target, Tally Ho, Take Off, Vital Force, & Zero Hour? The best (and clear standout.. like Yao Ming standing next to average height Asians) BGM piece in the first half of Darker Than Black isn't even on the OST (which is criminal).
And the Warsaw Philharmonic comment /faceplam considering the 5 tracks I just listed about are clearly orchestral tracks and actually use them. Also what's wrong with Aquarion? Plenty of orchestral tracks in that one.. more than Frontier easily...
And yes she's inspired by John Williams and Hans Zimmer for the BGM here but people forget that Williams was clearly inspired by Wagner and the list goes on.
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mufurc
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 612
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:07 am
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Kanno's "big orchestral" works have always been derivative, it's a bit late to be upset about that. The otherwise excellent Escaflowne OSTs are like "best of classical music, from Brahms to Bartók." Macross F is no different. (By the way, this is why I prefer Wolf's Rain and Darker than Black, they sound more "original" to me, but of course that may be only because I know classical music better.)
But I have to wonder at people who say she's stealing from John Williams. Er. She's "stealing" from the same people Williams, Zimmer, and most other composers do: classical composers and other film score composers who stole from classical composers. (And let's not go into the way classical composers "stole" from each other.) Say it with me, people: John Williams did not invent orchestral film score as we know it. Even in Star Wars, Williams' work was very heavily influenced by Romantics and other film score composers.
There's only one track on the Macross F OST that has some parts that remind me of Star Wars and IMO it's an obvious homage. (Even anime composers do that sometimes. One of the BGM tracks for Gungrave features an homage to The Godfather. Gungrave has awesome music, by the way.) The rest of that track strongly reminds me of a symphony but I'm not awake enough yet to put my finger on which one. If you want to accuse her of actually stealing, try Big Boys whose main theme is a bit too similar to the Pirates of the Caribbean theme but there's no reason for it to be a homage. (No pirates in sight, anyway.)
In any case, now that the OST is out, I hope fansubbers will correct those funny "transliterations" they did for Aimo. "Ai mo neteru ze" makes me imagine it's sung by someone like Kurosaki Ichigo and that's a mental image I can live without...
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Westlo
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 1684
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:58 am
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Here's how the singles have done for the show as well, Top 50 Oricon singles chart....
35 *,*87,158 **4,487 ダイヤモンド・クレバス/射手座☆午後九時Don't be late / シェリル・ノーム starring May'n 08/05/08
44 *,*78,775 **2,462 トライアングラー / 坂本真綾 08/04/23
8335 copies more for the May'n single and it went on sale 2 weeks later, you know I always thought that they roped in Maaya Sakamoto to do Triangler to sell more singles than Don't Be Late would have if it was the OP.
Don't Be Late would've made an incredible OP too, much better than Triangler *sigh*
I'm curious to see how the Ranka Lee single Interstellar Flight goes in a few weeks time, probably 65-75k, I can see the Lion cd by May'n selling over 100k since it has the new OP/ED themes.
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14886
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:22 pm
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Mohawk52 wrote: |
Teriyaki Terrier wrote: | Wow, this still do this? I thought this practice ended in the 90's.
I figured since Japan is more technolgyly advanced than most states, cds would be a item of a past and downloading into a Ipod would replace this. |
One would think that until one finds out that they have only just taken on the DVD from VHS when the rest of the developed world left VHS back in 2001. I believe the cost of new tech in Japan keeps people tied to their old formats for longer. |
Actually, Japanese are notorious for throwing out perfectly good appliances just to get the latest greatest. But in some areas, they can be total luddites, like still being a paper tender economy instead of electronic. Maybe CD music is one of these, where while iTunes downloads already have billions served... but then, I think Japanese listen to music on their cellphones, so maybe they get those music from CDs instead of downloads, even though download kiosks are available.
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Xenofan 29A
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 378
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:17 pm
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mufurc wrote: | Even in Star Wars, Williams' work was very heavily influenced by Romantics and other film score composers. |
He quoted Gustav Mahler DIRECTLY on two separate occasions, and Stravinsky near directly on at least one. I still like the Star Wars scores, although I understand that in some ways they're derivative.
It's not surprising that Macross would outsell Bebop, as in Japan, Cowboy Bebop wasn't that well known. Macross is a huge franchise.
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penguintruth
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8499
Location: Penguinopolis
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:08 pm
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This soundtrack really blew me away, though my expecations weren't particularly high after Yoko Kanno's somewhat mediocre soundtracks to Wolf's Rain. There's clearly some "movie soundtrack" derivation/influence, but the whole "Yoko Kanno steals" reputation she's getting now is absolutely absurd. Most of the comparisons done to her works are outright dissimilar, done by nitpickers and would-be iconoclasts. There are a lot of strong tracks here, especially songs like "Welcome to My FanClub Night", "Aimo", "Vital Force", "Tally Ho", and "Diamond Crevasse", though the vocals do contribute more to the soundtrack's sound in some cases.
Yoko Kanno proves she's still a good composer. It's not as impressive as, say, her Escaflowne or Macross Plus work, but I expect the next few Frontier soundtracks will be even better.
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Westlo
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 1684
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:31 pm
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Xenofan 29A wrote: | It's not surprising that Macross would outsell Bebop, as in Japan, Cowboy Bebop wasn't that well known. Macross is a huge franchise. |
Eh? Bebop was pretty popular in Japan... especially considering only half of the episodes aired in it's initial run in Japan. It's also #8 on the best selling dvd (by avg) list...
#10 Martian Successor Nadesico 37897 units
#9 Dragon Ball Z 40065 units
#8 Cowboy Bebop 40212 units
#7 Suzumiya Haruhi 41307 units
#6 Code Geass 44657 units
A 10k avg is considered hit status...
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Xenofan 29A
Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 378
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:32 pm
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I stand corrected. Every day I feel stupider.
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Proman
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 947
Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:33 pm
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Xenofan 29A wrote: | He quoted Gustav Mahler DIRECTLY on two separate occasions, and Stravinsky near directly on at least one. I still like the Star Wars scores, although I understand that in some ways they're derivative.
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There is nothing wrong with "quoting". In fact, like in Jazz, this is a very respected and long tradition. The main difference, of course, is that Williams never repeatedly based his entire compositions on pre-existing works nor did he break any copyright laws.
In any case, Kanno is entirely unworthy of being compared to Williams, or any other top film score composer.
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Proman
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 947
Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:59 pm
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Proman wrote: |
Xenofan 29A wrote: | He quoted Gustav Mahler DIRECTLY on two separate occasions, and Stravinsky near directly on at least one. I still like the Star Wars scores, although I understand that in some ways they're derivative.
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There is nothing wrong with "quoting". In fact, like in Jazz, this is a very respected and long tradition. The main difference, of course, is that Williams never repeatedly based his entire compositions on pre-existing works nor did he break any copyright laws.
In any case, Kanno is entirely unworthy of being compared to Williams, or any other top film score composer. |
mufurc wrote: | But I have to wonder at people who say she's stealing from John Williams. Er. She's "stealing" from the same people Williams, Zimmer, and most other composers do: classical composers and other film score composers who stole from classical composers. (And let's not go into the way classical composers "stole" from each other.) Say it with me, people: John Williams did not invent orchestral film score as we know it. Even in Star Wars, Williams' work was very heavily influenced by Romantics and other film score composers. |
Actually, Williams did pretty much invent the modern movie sound (by that I mean post Alfred Newman or Bernard Herrmann). He was the one who brought this romantic influence back to the movies in ways that was noticeble and significant. Of course he was influenced by others, including the aforementioned composers but it's not the same as stealing.
mufurc wrote: | If you want to accuse her of actually stealing, try Big Boys whose main theme is a bit too similar to the Pirates of the Caribbean theme but there's no reason for it to be a homage. (No pirates in sight, anyway.) |
You don't want to deal with Williams? Fine she stole from Sting, Bjork and Sugarbabes (and that's just off the top of my head). That's some range there . I do think she's very talented though and I sincerely hope she starts relying on her own composing/producing abilties more.
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mike_s_6
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 64
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:16 pm
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Westlo wrote: |
Xenofan 29A wrote: | It's not surprising that Macross would outsell Bebop, as in Japan, Cowboy Bebop wasn't that well known. Macross is a huge franchise. |
Eh? Bebop was pretty popular in Japan... especially considering only half of the episodes aired in it's initial run in Japan. It's also #8 on the best selling dvd (by avg) list...
#10 Martian Successor Nadesico 37897 units
#9 Dragon Ball Z 40065 units
#8 Cowboy Bebop 40212 units
#7 Suzumiya Haruhi 41307 units
#6 Code Geass 44657 units
A 10k avg is considered hit status... |
Actually, it's right that Bebop wasn't that popular in Japan. It didn't sell until it was presented in America, where it became a big hit, even prompting the release of a Bebop movie. Doesn't matter, I think Bebop is great
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mike_s_6
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 64
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:19 pm
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Also, I think the KEY take-away from this headline is the new success of an anime soundtrack, not just Yoko Kanno. Why not just celebrate?
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