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I wonder who among the posters in this thread think that, had an attack occured after the school found out about the Death Note notebook, the parents of any wounded and killed kids would've accepted the school saying "Yeah, well, we knew about the Death Note, but you know, that's just good, clean fun. We didn't seriously think that something called the Death Note, based on a manga wherein, if you write someone's name in the death note, they die, was really a hit list. Sorry. Our bad."

dormcat wrote:

If you look at past school massacres, nearly every instance was committed by young males, so we should lock all young males up before they commit any crime.

Oops, sorry, that's a bit overboard.

How about "if you look at past school massacres, nearly every instance had guns involved. Let's dissolve NRA and have a gun control." In fact I'm sure that many people, including relatives of victims of past massacres for sure, would support this with both arms raised, but their voices are just too insignificant compared with arms companies and their lobbyists.

Or maybe a bullet control would be more viable.

Yes, we know how you love to make ridiculous comparisons to support your comments, good for you. Being male doesn't imply malicious intent, nor does the mere presence of a gun in a household. However, writing peoples names in a manner that implies you want them dead can certainly be seen this way, especially for people not familiar with Death Note. Try latching on to comparisons that are realistic and apply next time, you know, so that way a valid discussion can be maintained.

I don't recall saying that I agreed with the schools response in regards to punishment either, I was just saying I understand why they acted. Does that mean they acted in the right way? I don't recall saying that, but for the people who think any reaction was unnecessary then I frankly think that stance is incredibly unrealistic, especially in the world as it is today.

Last edited by hosehead on Sun May 25, 2008 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

I understand that making a death threat is unlawful but, is saying I would like Joe Bloe to die in fire, the same as saying I will kill Joe Bloe in fire?

Enjeru wrote:

I think the point that people who are saying "all they did was write in a notebook" are missing is this is just usually the first step in something much worse occuring.

Wouldn't the bullying technically be the "first step?"

Keonyn wrote:

Instead of being angry at the school, you should be upset at a society that had evolved to the point this kind of action is even necessary.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly you're referring to?

Murasakisuishou wrote:

Kids need to learn this and just stay below the freaking radar.

Apparently the bullies have managed to figure this out. More power to ‘em I guess?

fighterholic wrote:

Do any of you guys accusing the schools know how that would affect anime? Not in a great way.

Yeah, ensuring a safe and educational schooling for our children isn't nearly as important as keeping our anime hobby under the radar of the domestic media.

I’m not intentionally trying to be to be overly confrontational, but I really am surprised how much amusement and disgust is being directed at these kids for doing something that doesn't sound so incredibly unique to me. I was repeatedly bullied as a child and even though I don't have any specific memory of making up any list of people I wish were punished/harmed/died it still doesn't seem all that bizarre to me. When I was going to school this sort of thing would not have been taken so seriously. If Columbine really changed everything then what exactly did it change? It put our school staff into instant panic mode, but beyond that I don't see that it changed much of anything at all. Somebody takes a gun to school and starts massacring people and we all just sit there stupefied and wonder why it keeps happening. Maybe it keeps happening because we never take it seriously enough to ever actually do something about it. Well, there is one thing we do, but I've yet to see that ever work on anything at all. Oh well, maybe some future generation will be brave enough to re-think our approach to that which ails us.

I still just cannot understand how people can say that these kids were just having fun. Did you ask them? Of course not. Just the same as nobody asked them if they were planning on taking further and more violent action.
So I guess what many of the "pro-kids" are saying is that this is an issue on intent. If they don't intend to hurt anyone, then it is ok to do this. Well since we are doing that, why don't we legalize drinking and driving? Drinking is fun and so is driving. And I doubt many people get behind the wheel with the intent of slamming into a minivan and killing a family of five.
Wake up and smell mankind people! We have laws to protect the masses against harm. Of course the system is flawed. But can you think of anything better? We don't live in the world of Minority Report where a crime can be stopped right before it occurs. The only thing that can be done is to prevent things from taking that next step.
If you look at these cases, the kids wrote names of people they either dislike or hate. Hate grows and festers. And thus, can turn into something much worse.
Some of you have said that taking the kids out of the school is unfair to them. In some ways I do agree with you. However you reep what you sow. You break the rules then you are judged by said rules. Were these children being bullied at school? Most likely and that is really unfortunate. And yes I do believe the school systems are not doing enough to stop bullying. Children can be hateful little beasts. But we are dealing with something called a "Death Note". It is not a shopping list and it is not a Christmas card list. Therefore, these kids knew that they were writing these names fueled by hatred. And therefore, the fun stops there.
If someone walked into your place of business and said they had enough C4 strapped to them to blow this place off the map, would you take that as a threat? Or would you give them the benift of the doubt and think they are just having fun? Please......
These kids screwed up and therefore are getting exactly what they deserve. And that is to be removed from a dangerous situation to not only the other students but to them as well. What do you think would happen to them if they were allowed to stay there? The students that found out their name was on there would really step up the bullying, or even seriously harm them.
There is no perfect way to handle this situation, there is only the lesser of two evils.

narutoismybrother wrote:

Well the expulsion is just ridiculous. Once you see the name Paris Hilton in the freakin book you should know by then not to take it seriously. Also, if there's no threat why would someone get expelled??

Well, that's dumb@$$es for you.

dormcat wrote:

Keonyn wrote:

I'm sure the school is well aware that a notebook doesn't kill people. But if you look at past school massacres, nearly every instance consists of some kind of threat on paper or online, a list, a plan or something to indicate the desire to do what they ended up doing.

If you look at past school massacres, nearly every instance was committed by young males, so we should lock all young males up before they commit any crime.

Oops, sorry, that's a bit overboard.

How about "if you look at past school massacres, nearly every instance had guns involved. Let's dissolve NRA and have a gun control." In fact I'm sure that many people, including relatives of victims of past massacres for sure, would support this with both arms raised, but their voices are just too insignificant compared with arms companies and their lobbyists.

Or maybe a bullet control would be more viable.

That should be easier now that Charlten Heston is gone to the great rifle range in the sky, and Ronald Rayguns is basically a human shaped vegetable. It seems that USA now stands for United States of Anxiety.

Top Gun wrote:

MagusGuardian wrote:

sometimes I wonder how stupid some people can get it's a [expletive] note book it's not real it has no powers it's just freaking paper, at this rate anti anime finatics will demand a ban on anime and anything related... jk honestly some people are so dense it's just an embarasment

...you do realize that making a death threat in and of itself is a crime, right? Regardless of whether or not the person making the threat intends to carry it out? And especially if they're talking about someone like the President?

This has been re-iterated in the discussion thread for every single similar case: the expulsion/suspension has nothing to do with anime specifically. It has everything to do with the fact that the individuals in each case broke the law. It's really staggeringly simple.

I'm going to have to weigh in here, and say that you are stretching the law waaay past where it goes.

Where is the actual threat, and when did it happen? Got you there, didn't I? Writing down a person's name in a notebook does not constitute a death threat. A person making a death threat need not mean that s(he) will be willing to carry it out. It is irrelevant. All that needs to happen is the recipient of the threat has to be genuinely convinced that their life is in danger.

Tell me, how many rational, psychologically well adjusted people on this planet actually believe that Death Notes are real? That a Death Note can really kill? Not many, I would bet. Therefore, you cannot argue that those who had their names written down can be genuinely convinced that their lives are in danger.

A death threat (and pardon the colloquial expression here) not only has to be aimed at someone, it has to be fired. If I make a threat against your life, then I must go out of my way to tell you that explicitly. Writing down a list of people you want dead is hardly a threat if the "victims' don't even know their lives are being threatened (by way of a supernatural notebook, no less). If I go, "I'm gonna kill ya" to you, especially while waving a weapon, then that is a bona fide death threat. If I were to (in a burst of anger) pencil on my calender, "Saturday 31st; kill so-and-so", but they accidentally see my calender on Thursday, then is that really a death threat? No so easy now.

Now, as a potential hit list of people to gun down, I readily agree with the assertion that narutoismybrother made: as soon as they saw Paris Hilton's name, the "adults" should have calmed down and assumed their age.

To expel a kid for this kind of behaviour is absurd, even if they had had previous run-ins with school authorities. Now, we have a teenager who was clearly troubled to begin with who has been further removed from his/her peers. Making such a list at school and leaving it lying around is a clear cry for attention, and yet no-one is helping them. Instead, the authorities have quite possibly eliminated any chance of this teen being able to adjust and mature normally.

What I am most concerned about is how the school has not addressed the underlying issues. If those kids were being chronically teased and bullied over two whole years, of course they are going to lash out. The fact that Death Note was their only outlet tell me how lonely they felt. Before anyone says more bad things about the Columbine Shooters, I would ask them to reflect on how the two boys were bullied and socially shunned, and how that likely played a huge part in sparking the Massacre. Schools must accept that (like most things), prevention is easier than the "cure". Stop chronic bullying, engage the kids, and you reduce the probability of young men becoming shooters. Virginia Tech may never had occurred, if only the lessons of Columbine were taken to heart.

One of my worst fears is that someone who is unfortunate enough to get picked on, but too depressed to seek help, and too unstable to adequately cope themselves, will kill their classmates and teachers, all because they attended a school with a climate of bullying. My worst fear (with regard to Anime/Manga) is that they do the massacre as planned, but with a Death Note in their bag as well.

Most (if not all) of the arguments that I made here can be found in the other "Child Brings Death Note to Class" threads. And yet some people continue to believe that these kids were making real death threats, that expulsion or suspension are justified punishments in these cases, and that School Shooters are monsters (and not the tragically bullied who seek a way out from pain).

Not everyone expresses those sorts of opinions, but some still do. And it punches my buttons.

WTF?!! Okay, this proves that America is fucked up! 1st off it's an anime...nothing real or substantial behind it. I understand all that crap about school massacres and such, however, has there been an attack? HELL NO! so the kids shouldn't be punished over writings in a notebook! It's a typical outlet for frustration and everyone has one, though it's is different for different people. Had an attack occured I could see someone being punished however one was not so therefore it proves that it was a simple and harmless act of letting out frustration and, yes it did wish harm unto someone however, my mom used to say "whish in one hand and shit in the other, see which fills up first". This country takes things too seriously and needs to loosen the hell up before the population turns on it and we go into another Civil War. Evil or Very Mad

Wow. Lot's of anti-American hatred in this thread. I know it's cool and all to hate America and make fun of the fact that they're prudes, but let's be fair. America is by-and-large still a country that believes in public moral values and accountability for one's actions. That's not a bad thing. This isn't going to cause some anime apocalypse, and it's not even going to result in Death Note, or any anime or manga, being banned. By and large, America's "free speech" policy (which they pioneered by the way) will prevent it from being banned anywhere. It might mean that certain titles will be banned from school grounds, but that's really not a big deal at all. Plenty of things are banned from school grounds, including playing cards (you know, the hearts, diamonds, spades, and clubs ones) in some schools. It's not because they're bad, but because school is primarily about learning, and certain things, if given enough attention, can seriously detract from learning.

Anyway, I believe I made my opinion clear in the three other threads about this exact same subject. I support the schools' punishments.

I think you'll find BleuVII, that people tend to overreact and assess things unfairly in response to news like this in just the same way that they accuse the people in the article of doing. It's all a vicious cycle really.

The media also presses for reactions like these, don'tcha know?

Anime hyper

What's the point of discussing things then? Honestly, these are just opinions, and people will either agree or disagree, no matter how ridiculous, unfair, senseless. Basically, it's two different views, still expressing concern, though.

o.o that's how I see it anyway...

Keonyn wrote:

Yes, we know how you love to make ridiculous comparisons to support your comments, good for you.

It was because calling a death WISH equivalent to a death THREAT is ridiculous in the first place.

Keonyn wrote:

Being male doesn't imply malicious intent,

We all agree that, and I was just kidding mentioning that, but...

Keonyn wrote:

nor does the mere presence of a gun in a household. However, writing peoples names in a manner that implies you want them dead can certainly be seen this way, especially for people not familiar with Death Note.

A gun, like any other weapon, is designed to harm/kill beings and damage/destroy items. Written names on a paper, no matter how malicious it can be, is NOT a weapon and does NOT kill or harm anyone physically. It's called a FANTASY, and fantasies DON'T kill, unless someone trying to turn their fantasies INTO REALITIES. Schools, teachers, and education "experts" should find out what caused these killers decided to turn their killing urges -- something every human has once in a while but never acts upon them -- into realities, as well as why other countries have far less similar incidents.

For the record, my 3rd grade homeroom teacher even told us to write down the three most loved and hated classmates we pupils think so she could evaluate the relationship network among us. While she was the worst teacher I've ever met, none of my classmates has appeared in any murder case yet.

Keonyn wrote:

Try latching on to comparisons that are realistic and apply next time, you know, so that way a valid discussion can be maintained.

No offense, but something "unrealistic" or "invalid" in your eyes isn't necessary the same way in eyes of others.

Since you didn’t reply I’ll modify your statement and see if I’m on to anything...

Keonyn wrote:

If you look at past school massacres, nearly every instance consists of some kind of gun. Honestly, the school would be irresponsible if they didn't act against the bullying, considering the cowboy culture we live in and the striking similarities between what was found here, and what was found after the fact in school shootings. Instead of being angry at the school, you should be upset at a society that has refused to evolve beyond to the point that bullying is considered routine and unavoidable.

There, now that makes a little more sense IMO.

So announcing the desire of somebody's death is the same now as announcing the intention to kill them? Haven't we gotten a little paranoid? I know we'd like to say that if we can save one life, it's worth it, but really, it's not.

Not to sound callous, but school shootings and freak outs are isolated incidents, and in no way an epidemic. Even if it were, laying the foundation for a system of fear and paranoia among students is not a good idea. The school is responsible for education, not law enforcement. If they think that there are credible threats to the population of the school, they should consult law enforcement, suggest (SUGGEST) counseling, but make no overt action. It's parents that should worry about kids, not office-stuffing god-complex school staffers.

These kids need the support of their peers and elders, not punishment.

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