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Maid in the USA - A Visit to Royal/T


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einhorn303



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:25 pm Reply with quote
It's all the DERP DERP DAT'S DEGRADING TO WIMMENZ!!1!!1@! people who've made the state of American culture so shitty and puritanical, to the point that we have to import it from Japan.

Anyways, I'd like it if we got a maid cafe in Boston. Hey, we're metropolitan and have a large Asian American population.
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 561
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:06 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
FeralKat wrote:
Why would a girl want to lower herself like that?

Because, for girls in Japan and elsewhere in the world (including many developed nations), there's a job that pays less, with longer working hours, and expects you to offer sexual service.

einhorn303 wrote:
It's all the DERP DERP DAT'S DEGRADING TO WIMMENZ!!1!!1@! people who've made the state of American culture so shitty and puritanical, to the point that we have to import it from Japan.

I knew there was a reason I came to the discussion forum for this article, and only now do I realize it was to get my daily dosage of laughter. Razz It's a shame that stomach bug left me with muscles that ache every time I so much as cough. Sad
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:29 am Reply with quote
einhorn303 wrote:
It's all the DERP DERP DAT'S DEGRADING TO WIMMENZ!!1!!1@! people who've made the state of American culture so shitty and puritanical, to the point that we have to import it from Japan.

Anyways, I'd like it if we got a maid cafe in Boston. Hey, we're metropolitan and have a large Asian American population.


Jesus christ what the hell is this

"Rampant, blatant misogyny isn't OK anymore in this country so in order to feel superior to women for stupid-ass redneck-style reasons I have to import sexist, obviously pandering entertainment from a society that still has a pretty big problem with gender equality"

I find it absolutely hilarious that you think a society progressing toward equality and a lack of tolerance for intolerance or subjugation of a people based on gender or race is "puritanical".

Boston is a pretty progressive city by the way so I don't think your dream of a cafe where Asian girls pretend they can tolerate you while wearing servant clothing would go over too well.
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Moomintroll



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: Nottingham (UK)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:26 am Reply with quote
sam18x wrote:
I'm posting from work so I'm a little afraid of clicking on the thumbnails, but I really don't think the point of the maid outfits (in *this* case) is sexual ...anything. From the thumbnails those outfits look ...cute. That's about it. They don't reveal anything.


"Sexual" and "revealing" are not synonyms. The maid outfits are, in this context, an expression of a sexual fetish (just as they would be if they were, say, nurses uniforms) and, as such, they're every bit as sexualised as if the women were wearing Playboy bunny outfits.

Quote:
Or is simply the concept of being a maid degrading? I wasn't aware that it was...


Being an actual maid isn't degrading (or at least no more so than any other form of low paid servitude). But dressing up as a maid for the sexual gratification of men who get off on the concept of posessing their own personal servile, dependent, sexually available, doormat girl...yes, that is inherantly degrading.
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sam18x



Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:54 pm Reply with quote
I agree with you that that's what's being expressed in actual maid cafes in Japan, but I don't think that's the case here. Based on the comment of one of the maids, they have no idea what their counterparts in akihabara actually do. They have no idea how to do any of that creepy "goshujin-sama" stuff that appears to be where the most offense is being taken. It really sounds like they're effectively waitresses in maid attire, meant to capture the impression of another culture (and thus be trendy), but lacking the substance. I would consider them guilty only by association, but that's it. I see no intent to degrade women in the store proprietors, the attire, or the clientele.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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samuelp
Industry Insider


Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2246
Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:56 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
einhorn303 wrote:
It's all the DERP DERP DAT'S DEGRADING TO WIMMENZ!!1!!1@! people who've made the state of American culture so shitty and puritanical, to the point that we have to import it from Japan.

Anyways, I'd like it if we got a maid cafe in Boston. Hey, we're metropolitan and have a large Asian American population.


Jesus christ what the hell is this

"Rampant, blatant misogyny isn't OK anymore in this country so in order to feel superior to women for stupid-ass redneck-style reasons I have to import sexist, obviously pandering entertainment from a society that still has a pretty big problem with gender equality"

I find it absolutely hilarious that you think a society progressing toward equality and a lack of tolerance for intolerance or subjugation of a people based on gender or race is "puritanical".

Boston is a pretty progressive city by the way so I don't think your dream of a cafe where Asian girls pretend they can tolerate you while wearing servant clothing would go over too well.

Ah, but you are forgetting the newer phenomena of "Butler" cafes that are becoming more and more popular in Tokyo. Another 3 or so just opened in Ikebukuro. So now it's perfectly fair, right? It's still equality if everyone is exploited the same amount, after all.

And frankly, in my opinion, Maid cafes degrade the men who go to them more than the women who work at them. Especially considering the prices they charge for the (usually crappy) food.
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daxomni



Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 2650
Location: Somewhere else.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Moomintroll wrote:
They're every bit as sexualised as if the women were wearing Playboy bunny outfits.

Really? Then lets bring on the bunny outfits! Wink

Moomintroll wrote:
Dressing up as a maid for the sexual gratification of men who get off on the concept of posessing their own personal servile, dependent, sexually available, doormat girl...yes, that is inherantly degrading.

I don’t think they’ll allow anyone to receive or provide any sexual gratification. That sounds like a slap in the face of the clientele to me. I think the shy nerds these girls are targeting should be absolutely incensed at this cheap and degrading gimmick!
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Moomintroll



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: Nottingham (UK)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:28 pm Reply with quote
sam18x wrote:
I agree with you that that's what's being expressed in actual maid cafes in Japan, but I don't think that's the case here. Based on the comment of one of the maids, they have no idea what their counterparts in akihabara actually do. They have no idea how to do any of that creepy "goshujin-sama" stuff that appears to be where the most offense is being taken.


I'm not sure that self-awareness is a necessary prerequisite of degradation.

Quote:
It really sounds like they're effectively waitresses in maid attire, meant to capture the impression of another culture [...] I see no intent to degrade women in the store proprietors, the attire, or the clientele.


I suspect if I were Japanese I'd be slightly insulted if I thought this was what my culture had been reduced to in the eyes of other nations. It's like a person opening an American theme bar here in Europe, staffing it with girls in cheerleader outfits and then insisting they're not selling sex, they're selling "culture".
As for intent...it's pretty much only otaku types who would recognise the link between maid uniforms and Japanese pop culture so it seems reasonable to presume that there is a certain knowingness on the part of both the operators and the clientelle.

samuelp wrote:
And frankly, in my opinion, Maid cafes degrade the men who go to them more than the women who work at them.


Right. Rolling Eyes

daxomni wrote:
I don’t think they’ll allow anyone to receive or provide any sexual gratification [...] I think the shy nerds these girls are targeting should be absolutely incensed


Nah. In order to incense the nerds they'd have to try and stop them from downloading maids for free from file sharing sites. The nerds would angrily assert that a maid speaking Japanese is more authentic than a maid speaking English and they would further point out that downloaded maids come with neat karaoke effects.
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Axle911



Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Hooters
-Buffalo Sauce
+Japan
----------
Maid Cafe
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midori kou



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 469
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:30 pm Reply with quote
All this talk about degrading and what not seems so trivial to me. I don't know if anyone realized, but we are living in an age where things that are would be degrading women is now put on a pedestal and women are owning that image as something powerful. If these women feel comfortable and confident being a maid, then good for them. If they are being paid to do something that they like, even better.

I think most people have also ignored that fact that this cafe is located in a space where it has an art gallery beside it. The atomsphere in an art gallery is definitely not like an Akiba maid cafe. They aren't doing a performance art piece involving the surpression of women through maid cafes. And if they were, well, I supposed that they accomplished something. They made us think. However, they were just serving food and providing good customer service. We only think poorly of the situation because we think their maid cafe may be like the ones in Japan. Sorry to burst your bubble, but these maids aren't of the same type. The context is severely different.

My 2 cents.
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 561
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:06 am Reply with quote
Moomintroll wrote:
Nah. In order to incense the nerds they'd have to try and stop them from downloading maids for free from file sharing sites. The nerds would angrily assert that a maid speaking Japanese is more authentic than a maid speaking English and they would further point out that downloaded maids come with neat karaoke effects.

Um... I know it says "troll" in your name and everything, but could you at least try to focus your trolling on one topic at a time?
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Moomintroll



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1600
Location: Nottingham (UK)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:57 am Reply with quote
midori kou wrote:
I don't know if anyone realized, but we are living in an age where things that are would be degrading women is now put on a pedestal and women are owning that image as something powerful.


I'm not sure I can unmangle your syntax sufficiently to work out what that means. However, taking a wild stab in the dark, if you're talking about the way in which feminism has been supplanted (at least in the mainstream media) with a nebulous, self-serving and vague (but oh-so hip sounding) concept of "empowerment" then I can only say that I'm not much inclined to see that as progress. Probably a generational thing...

Quote:
I think most people have also ignored that fact that this cafe is located in a space where it has an art gallery beside it.


Actually, that was pretty my original point before I got dragged off on tangenital points about sexual politics - in short, I think the gallery wing of the operation is cheapened by association.

Ai no Kareshi wrote:
Um... I know it says "troll" in your name and everything,


Wow. I bet you're considered the greatest wit in all of Siff Ifrika. I mean, seriously, comedy gold. You should go pro. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
but could you at least try to focus your trolling on one topic at a time?


Daxomni wrote a humourous post and I responded in kind. If you consider even the mildest of tongue-in-cheek asides to be trolling, you're clearly far too delicate to be exposed to the internet.
Furthermore, your implication would appear to be that my posts prior to that were also "trolling". They weren't and I'd be curious to know what on Earth would make you think they were. Could it be that the idea of a person with strongly held ideals that go beyond "whatever I want is my absolute divine right" is so alien to you that you can only conclude it must be some kind of elaborate wind up?
Like I said before, must be a generational thing... Confused
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 561
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:29 am Reply with quote
Moomintroll wrote:
Wow. I bet you're considered the greatest wit in all of Siff Ifrika. I mean, seriously, comedy gold. You should go pro. Rolling Eyes

Lol at your overwhelmingly mature response. Cool

Moomintroll wrote:
If you consider even the mildest of tongue-in-cheek asides to be trolling, you're clearly far too delicate to be exposed to the internet.
Furthermore, your implication would appear to be that my posts prior to that were also "trolling". They weren't and I'd be curious to know what on Earth would make you think they were. Could it be that the idea of a person with strongly held ideals that go beyond "whatever I want is my absolute divine right" is so alien to you that you can only conclude it must be some kind of elaborate wind up?
Like I said before, must be a generational thing... Confused

I wasn't actually being serious at all. I care about as much for this topic as the next Siff Ifrikan does. Razz
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sam18x



Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:23 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I suspect if I were Japanese I'd be slightly insulted if I thought this was what my culture had been reduced to in the eyes of other nations. It's like a person opening an American theme bar here in Europe, staffing it with girls in cheerleader outfits and then insisting they're not selling sex, they're selling "culture".


It's off-topic but I think that happens often and regularly on both sides of the Pacific. In an attempt to appeal to their home audience, the importers tune the import to better suit native tastes. Only widespread and popular cultural adoptions (like, say, anime) have the clout to be imported without modification and with appropriate respect taken for the source country. The biggest I can think of is Christmas, which in 1% christian Japan is a "lover's holiday" but here(and Europe) it's our most important religious holiday.

Even more off-topic, I wonder what French anime fans thought when they saw Maria-sama ga Miteru or what English fans thought when they saw Code Geass. How many times did you feel like bursting out laughing? Very Happy

Okay I think I'm done.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9902
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:34 am Reply with quote
sam18x wrote:
Only widespread and popular cultural adoptions (like, say, anime) have the clout to be imported without modification and with appropriate respect taken for the source country.

It took anime more than two decades to obtain its current "widespread and popular" (still debatable) and "without modification" state from something like this and this.
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