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MFrontier
Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 14258
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 Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 12:48 pm
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That really sucks.
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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5525
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 1:31 pm
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I take it we will never be given a reason why.
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King Chicken
Joined: 13 Aug 2022
Posts: 140
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 1:49 pm
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Raebo101
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 818
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 2:34 pm
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I'm curious: Is Xbox Game Pass doing more harm than good for these games?
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JustMonika
Joined: 17 Jan 2022
Posts: 1169
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 3:09 pm
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Yo wtf, what about The Evil Within 3? Who are they going to close next? Id Software?!?!??!?!?!
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6364
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 3:22 pm
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| Raebo101 wrote: | |
I'm curious: Is Xbox Game Pass doing more harm than good for these games? |
That same article links to another article that mentions this
| Quote: | | According to Microsoft, base game sales do decrease after inclusion on Game Pass. "Microsoft also submitted that its internal analysis shows a [redacted]% decline in base game sales twelve months following their addition on Game Pass," the CMA states |
| Quote: | | Later in the report, internal Microsoft documents also recognize that Game Pass does cannibalize direct purchases of games (called buy-to-play, or B2P in the report) sales. An exact number is unknown, as three different figures present in internal exchanges have been redacted in the CMA report. |
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Greed1914
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4671
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 3:32 pm
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Tango made some, maybe rough, but otherwise fun and creative games. Microsoft even said that Hi-Fi Rush performed well, and yet here we are.
Arkane Austin also shutdown, and while the poor performance of Redfall didn't help, that was also a project that Bethesda pushed on them despite it not being in their wheelhouse. They even tried to get Microsoft to cancel it, and got told to stay the course. Now the studio pays the price of having two publishers insist that live service was the way to go.
Redfall came with a pricier collector's edition that was supposed to come with additional content for the game...which didn't happen, and all those people will get is the value of the upgrade in items for a dead game.
If this is the kind of stuff that happens after spending a few billion dollars to get Bethesda/Zenimax, then it ought to be interesting what that $69 billion for Activision produces.
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Lord Geo
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2700
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 3:36 pm
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| JustMonika wrote: | | Yo wtf, what about The Evil Within 3? Who are they going to close next? Id Software?!?!??!?!?! |
Really doubt it, since id is too big of a studio to do that to. Bethesda Game Studios had a notorious bomb with Starfield recently, and it looks like it won't get "punished" in any way, so it's easier to just shutter the smaller studios that put out smaller name titles, in comparison, instead of actually doing something that might actually force the bigger studio to do better.
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AiddonValentine
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2359
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 4:00 pm
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All coming back to the absurd acquisitions they made over the past few years, especially ActiBlizz. This whole thing has been a complete disaster from top to bottom. It has accomplished nothing other than MS single-handedly, exponentially shrinking the industry just so executives can keep exorbitant bonuses that they never do anything with. It's pathetic. MS has become a joke in gaming, like the spoiled rich who buys his way into success and then tanks hard when he's expected to actually do something. Utter travesty that will go down as one of the worst events in gaming history.
Arkane Austin did not deserve to be shuttered just because of Redfall (they were even telling MS to just mercy cancel the thing). It's also telling how Mikami jumped right before Tango collapsed. Why would anyone want to work for MS at this point?
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thecowardlyantoine
Joined: 04 Aug 2023
Posts: 24
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 4:16 pm
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| Lord Geo wrote: | | Bethesda Game Studios had a notorious bomb with Starfield recently |
Starfield sold 13 million. That's not the same thing as Hi-Fi Rush selling 3 million or Redfall selling I don't know how much but apparently not even that. I never played any of these games but out of all the studios out there I assume Bethesda is safe because Elder Scrolls and Fallout print money especially after the Fallout TV show boosted sales and players for that franchise even if we consider Starfield "only" selling 13 million a bomb. I wouldn't say these smaller studios putting out not very successful games is an indicator the guys behind Doom or Fallout are in trouble since those games actually sell.
On another note I didn't actually know Hi-Fi Rush was made by a Japanese studio until now because the art and character designs look very Saturday Morning Cartoonish.
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 700
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 4:17 pm
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The very article you link to also includes where Microsoft says it surpassed all expectations. So the question very much becomes what the hell Microsoft's expectations are if a game can surpass them but not make enough money for them to keep funding, especially when they purposely kneecap sales by putting it on gamepass. The thing they admit decreases sales but is supposed to be made up for by the good working relationship with Microsoft. Further emphasizing that you cannot take the words of a company that exists only to increase shareholder value as anything but poisoned honey. A successful game only means more for them to suck dry when they dismantle you for parts.
| thecowardlyantoine wrote: |
| Lord Geo wrote: | | Bethesda Game Studios had a notorious bomb with Starfield recently |
Starfield sold 13 million. That's not the same thing as Hi-Fi Rush selling 3 million or Redfall selling I don't know how much but apparently not even that. I never played any of these games but out of all the studios out there I assume Bethesda is safe because Elder Scrolls and Fallout print money especially after the Fallout TV show boosted sales and players for that franchise even if we consider Starfield "only" selling 13 million a bomb. I wouldn't say these smaller studios putting out not very successful games is an indicator the guys behind Doom or Fallout are in trouble since those games actually sell.
On another note I didn't actually know Hi-Fi Rush was made by a Japanese studio until now because the art and character designs look very Saturday Morning Cartoonish. |
You do get that different games cost different amounts to make, right? This is the saddest "Big Number is Better" attempt I've seen in awhile that completely whiffs reality. There's nothing stopping Microsoft from doing anything because at the end of they day they still own those franchises even if they dismantle the studios. The people making the fallout games don't see any of the TV show money. Also nice bonus at the end of believing entire countries can't have different art styles.
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AiddonValentine
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2359
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 4:56 pm
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| ATastySub wrote: | |
You do get that different games cost different amounts to make, right? This is the saddest "Big Number is Better" attempt I've seen in awhile that completely whiffs reality. There's nothing stopping Microsoft from doing anything because at the end of they day they still own those franchises even if they dismantle the studios. The people making the fallout games don't see any of the TV show money. Also nice bonus at the end of believing entire countries can't have different art styles. |
Exactly, especially when we don't know what sales expectations internally were or how much it cost to develop. For all we know Starfield could have not have made back a single cent and Hi-Fi Rush earned back its budget a few times over. There's a reason why MS doesn't detail its games division in earnings reports.
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juaifan
Joined: 20 Mar 2021
Posts: 154
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 5:00 pm
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| ATastySub wrote: | | The very article you link to also includes where Microsoft says it surpassed all expectations. So the question very much becomes what the hell Microsoft's expectations are if a game can surpass them but not make enough money for them to keep funding, especially when they purposely kneecap sales by putting it on gamepass. The thing they admit decreases sales but is supposed to be made up for by the good working relationship with Microsoft. Further emphasizing that you cannot take the words of a company that exists only to increase shareholder value as anything but poisoned honey. A successful game only means more for them to suck dry when they dismantle you for parts. |
To be fair If they thought only 10 people would buy the game and it turned out 11 people did that would still qualify as surpassing all expectations in addition to not selling well so I don't see the contradiction here. Always look at actual numbers rather than weasel words and PR speak that don't actually say anything.
The only support for Hi-Fi Rush I'm seeing now are people saying it won awards and was praised by critics so the studio should not be closed. The sooner people realize review scores and awards don't pay the bills and only sales and players do then the less surprising it will be when these things happen. According to Steamcharts Hi-Fi Rush's peak player count was 6,043 which is not good at all. Apparently more people are upset at this news than people who actually ever played the game which is kind of odd but judging by some comments I imagine it's a lot of grifters joining the Microsoft hate bandwagon rather than genuine Tango Gameworks fans upset by this news.
| Quote: | | The people making the fallout games don't see any of the TV show money. |
Even if you want to say Todd Howard working on the TV show and being paid for it doesn't count as the people who make the games then sales for all Fallout games have spiked since the show came out some of which by over a thousand percent. They have tangibly benefited from the TV show's success either way.
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jdnation
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 2129
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 5:12 pm
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People ought to learn by now that companies will always declare SUCCESS! early on as part of PR even if things are absolutely disastrous behind the scenes. The roof always emerges months later.
It is certain now that Microsoft gambled insanely riskily with Gamepass and acquisitions Eating losses hoping to outdo Sony. Hardware did not improve, and subscriptions stagnated as a result. The market chose Sony and Nintendo and PC. Game subscriptions as a deal were a good offer, but did not entice customers. People don't consume games the same way they do movies and tv shows. The mass market picks a few titles and only plays those, and it is cheaper not to sub. Books can be written detailing the failures, but here are the results.
Sony and Nintendo have it right. Don't devalue your games. Don't make them multiplat. Don't put them on PC day 1 or at all (3rd party console exclusive deals excepted). Especially don't put them on your subscription service day 1. More like Year 2 or more or never. Activision also balked at the idea of giving COD away Day 1 on subs.
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King Chicken
Joined: 13 Aug 2022
Posts: 140
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 5:24 pm
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| ATastySub wrote: | | The very article you link to also includes where Microsoft says it surpassed all expectations. |
From a "games marketing VP" who probably didn't want the bad PR tweet he was replying to to hurt the game even more since he knew people are less likely to buy a game people are calling dead. But the new info we got later and the shutting of the studio now I assume the "not made much money" ones to be true in the end despite what a marketing VP tried to spin at the time to drum up hype.
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