Forum - View topicMobile Suit Gundam: Where to Start and What's Worth Watching [2024 Edition]
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Cardcaptor Takato
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Fluwm
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Personally, there are very few Gundam shows I wouldn't recommend someone watching -- just AGE and the various Builders spin-offs, really. Pretty much all of the shows have their own merits, their own problems (well, maybe not Turn A), and are pretty enjoyable in their own right.
And in general I am always in favor of production order for... anything. But given the sheer length of your typical Gundam series, I'd typically recommend newcomers to start with one of the shorter OVAs, or maybe TWFM. 08th MS Team and War in the Pocket remain the perennial favorites for the first forays,
This is a narrative that I just... don't really care for. Yes, Tomino was going through some stuff in his personal and professional life while making Victory Gundam... but this idea that these factors led him to phone it in, or be apathetic about his creation just... it does an enormous disservice not just to the Victory Gundam series, but Tomino himself. I would argue (and often have argued) that Tomino was absolutely delivering his "best work" with Victory, even if the tone proved divisive. As I think we can routinely see -- with abundant frequency -- restrictions such as those Tomino was laboring under often drive artists to produce their best work. Total creative freedom seldom yields such dividends. I don't begrudge anyone for disliking Victory, but it does seem very odd for me when people try to justify that dislike by claiming Tomino didn't put in the effort, or care about the product he dedicated more than a full year of his life to making. Victory is just as quintessentially Tomino, i think, as Zeta was -- the the biggest difference between the two being the lack of legacy characters, factions and mechanical design inherited from a beloved prior series. Last edited by Fluwm on Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:26 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18435 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I think it's safe to say that someone who's seen nearly every Gundam animation ever made does actually care about Gundam. You're entirely welcome to disagree with Lauren's opinions, but let's not go overboard.
This really sounds like "if you don't like what I do about Gundam then you're not a real fan" grousing. Anyway, glad to see 08 MS Team get a "yes" acknowledgement. It's the only Gundam title which ever deeply struck a chord with me one of only a handful that I ever finished. |
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enurtsol
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Gundam Wing is remembered for the pretty boys, which got girls to watch mecha with their boy friends
(T'was during the grrrl powaa era when shoujo ruled the bookstore aisles) |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6583 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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I'm intrigued by the conflicting views about Turn A Gundam.
Before watching it, the only Gundam I'd seen was a Katsuhiro Otomo short, Gundam; Mission to the Rise because it was, well, directed by Otomo. I later watched the movie trilogy. As a rule I'm not into giant robot shows, but the Yoko Kanno song, The Moon's Cocoon, blew me away and led me to Turn A. I enjoyed it immensely, perhaps because it's restrained in its use of giant robots and concentrates on the identity swap between the two female leads, leading to all sorts of ironies and implied commentary about politics and our penchant for violence - ever a Tomino obsession. Given my attitude to giant robot shows and the comments about Turn A, I find myself dissuaded from exploring the franchise any further. |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
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Girls were the ones watching Gundam from the get-go. If anything Wing’s over the top robot designs got more boys to watch it with the girls. I remember Deathscythe in particular being extremely popular despite being barely animated at any point during the series. |
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Arale Kurashiki
Posts: 773 |
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I would recommend it as the third thing a new Gundam fan watches because it is the third Gundam show. Also, you yourself were saying that fans always said to skip it, so I'm just saying that they were always wrong to do so, and removed from fandom, the idea to do so is a pretty wild suggestion. Not necessarily related to the article, though the article does reflect upon common fan opinions like that.
The reason I believe a lot of Gundam fans don't like the usual style, themes, etc. of a Gundam show is because a lot of Gundam fans have expressed to me that they don't like the usual style, themes, etc. of a Gundam show. If that "sounds like" a bad argument then ok, but I think it's worth observing regardless. I just think that Tomino and his base Gundam works (that the rest of the franchise is based on) isn't very popular in the western fandom. This seems evidently true (and for understandable reasons), and I'm not begrudging people for loving some of the other stuff. But I do think people should consider that Gundam is a continuing work that started from a specific point and not just a collection of individual "franchise entries" devoid of historical context. I.e. I love War in the Pocket, and it's lovable and understandable on its own, but its historical context is being the first non-Tomino Gundam. The UC didn't spring fully formed and all the different creators who contributed to Gundam have their own individual, and sometimes contradictory, view of it (I've seen a lot of misunderstandings about Zeon's portrayal over the years, for instance, because people backport stuff from Origin, 08th, etc. into their understanding of Tomino's shows.). |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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Arale Kurashiki
Posts: 773 |
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I don't know what that means. All I meant is I don't think people should skip half the story of the original Gundam series if they're watching the original Gundam series. A lot of people historically thought otherwise. That's it. That's all I mean. No need to think I want to argue, I don't mean it rudely at all, it's just what I think.
E: Like to be clear I didn't mean to offend anyone and I'm gonna stop posting because I think I'm being taken a way I didn't intend. My apologies for that |
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Hambler
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I think they meant removed from the context of "Fandom" discussions and more towards how art and media is experienced. Gundam, at least the UC, is a story. Would you skip the middle third of Monster? Would you accept that someone skipped the 2nd season of AOT because they didn't enjoy it? Why would Gundam be excluded from this line of thinking? People experiencing elements of Gundam out of context will have a diluted view the intent and meaning of the work. That is simply a fact. I'm just curious why Gundam fans stating that gundam has an order or at the very least a linear story(just like any other work ) are gatekeepers and villains when it's perfectly acceptable for nearly every other series.
Gundam is Tominos story, it isn't the MCU. Turn A is a response to Tominos past philosophies, his mindset in the 90s, and his perspective on gundam. The A represents acceptance of the past and the future. Prior and through making Turn A he had fallen into a depression which had been exasperated by his role and frustration while making Victory gundam. Youre missing a lot of perspective on Tomino and Turn A by rejecting Gundam. A good example is the role his wife played in his life. At the end of Z, Tomino had fallen into a a sort of depression. In response, i believe his wife pushed him to make ZZ more positive in an attempt to raise his spirits. People hate that jarring change but it's as much a part of Tomino's personal journey as it is the story. Watching tomino gundam isn't like a pick and choose which ones you like and choose to accept They're linear. They have all the same characters. They even follow the same story threads (minus Victory). They are essentially Season 1, 2, 3 and a movie. They are Tominos interpretation of the world and together make up complete journey. Turn A is a response and a reflection on that journey. If Tomino has never seen nor commented on a gundam series he didn't make, why should you allow them to contextualize your view? |
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tintor2
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In the case of Double Zeta, the amount of comedy and fanservice can get ridiculous to the point all villains are downplayed during the early episodes and there jokes that seem taken for a younger demographics like kids drawing Zeta in a school which results in some guy taking it as a challenge. There is also a woman who keeps putting her cleavage in Judau's head for some reason. This repeats in Victory Gundam but way escalated as most women are killed in the most horrible situations.
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kgw
 Posts: 1179 Location: Spain, EU |
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Please stop projecting. Gundam does not belongs to you and we're allowed to like, dislike or write about Gundam as much as we want. Including Lauren. And I repeat I cannot take CCA seriously with two adult men fighting over a dead girlfriend who wasn't even their (while ignoring the real, not-dead women who are beside them) and spend the last moments of their lives screaming nonsense and the Earth is saved by... dunno, the power of friendship. |
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omiya
 Posts: 1849 Location: Adelaide, South Australia |
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Yoshiyuki Tomino wrote the lyrics to quite a few Gundam songs including for Tsuki no Mayu / The Moon's Cocoon (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshiyuki_Tomino under Discography (as Rin_Iogi) ). Enjoy this live performance from 2023 by original singer Aki Okui: https://youtu.be/5XpoIWabgl4?t=15 |
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DKop
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I cannot believe I want to post something on the ANN forums, but after minor consideration (and against my better judgement) I feel like I Gotta say something about this article. I'm also doing this sober minded, like what the heck is wrong with me!!??
I'm gonna give my TL:DR about this article after thinking about it. Instead of people interpreting "No" as "Not worth watching," look at "No" as "Check it out after watching all the 'Yes' and 'Maybe' listed." Do I agree with everything on that list, of course I don't. As a matter of fact im all for people watching whatever they want in Gundam and coming up with their own opinion on that show weither they can truck through it or not. Regarding the UC series, they were all meant to be watched in the order they were put out, because that is how the creator wanted people to see them. I do gotta give shoutouts to the people on here that are ZZ and Victory defenders because now we have those series on Bluray we can come up with our own opinions on those shows instead of hearing "such and such said it was bad" for the past four decades. I wanna tackle the "No's" and "Maybe's" to give my thoughts on them: ZZ - I'm saying this show is worth a watch if your wanting to be a complete UC series watcher. Yes, the show is comedic, repetitive and dumb fun the first 20 something episodes before it shifts and becomes serious, that's really when it gets good. You'll know that hits when spoiler[Judau sister is presumed dead. I know you people who haven't seen the show clicked on it theres a reason I have a spoiler tag there to begin with]. You're also missing out on the fun like putting a Zaku head on the Zeta Gundam body because it's funny. What you think it's not funny? You need to get your funny bone checked out. It took me a few year to see it but im glad I did, and I saw it before I finished up Zeta Gundam (my watch history of Zeta Gundam is interesting and took me many years to finally see the whole series, thats a story for another time.) CCA - You kinda need to see this movie to tie up the whole Char/Amuro story conclusion. But im not gonna praise the movie as fine art. Plot wise its a mess in areas, the politics behind the scenes in the movie are thrown at you and its not well established because you don't have time to fully explain it because more MS battles are right around the next corner. Look we get it, Quess is annoying, but she gets what she deserves in the end. However, the remedy for understanding CCA is in Beltorchika Children manga/novel, which the manga is being printed by Denpa, so def check that out to add to your Gundam media collection. F91 - Gonna be honest, you can go without seeing this, but you might as well see it. The movie has never really stuck with me, but man visually its a solid looking film. The songs in the film are really pretty to listen too. This was a project to be a tv series that got cut down to a movie, so we got what we got. You might as well watch it once its not going to kill you. Victory - I am a Victory defender, Victory is my favorite Gundam series because it was the one that was over looked and the one that took me years to watch. This is Tomino doing what Tomino did in Ideon, Killing them all and letting the plot sort em out. There was some moments in that series that still get to me to this day, such as Uso being in the presense of the wife of a soldier he killed and the woman trying to keep it together then just goes into a huge breakdown that you can just feel the weight of her agony. I haven't experienced a moment like that in Gundam since then. I need to give Victory another watch through, im due that. G Gundam - The reasons for saying "maybe" watching this in the article I find disagreeable. Ok fine, so its got some cultural "misappropriation" happening, but to the Japanese on a timeline making a show as over the top as possible, looking at that 30 years later could offend some people. The show went off the rails and did its own thing and its a super fun ride from start to finish. People that have written off G Gundam in the past come back to it and say (Gen X term) "this is GAS!" If you got someone who likes fighting anime and want to try Gundam this would be a top recommendation. Again, imo. G Savior - Just watch the darn thing, you'll be a real Gundam vet by sitting through G Savior. This comes off as a generic sci-fi film, but you'll get some browing points somewhere by the Gundam crowd that you survived watching it. I mean I've seen it twice, can't tell you what the plot is, but still watch it. Unicorn - This one is pretty intriguing to put down as a "No." I've known people when Unicorn was coming out that got into Gundam through Unicorn. Personally for me Unicorn doesn't really do much, but in no way am I going to write it off. I think for me it deserves another watch through, and we did get the OVA into TV sized episodes for Toonami a few years back, and seeing it in that format really helped take it in bite sized bits. Wing - Ok the real elephant on the Gundam timeline in the room. Here's what I've come to really say about Gundam Wing in 24 years since it aired on Toonami: Gundam Wing was a great way to introduce people to the Gundam universe. For teen/young adults it got people invested because it had robot fights in every episode like how DBZ was fighting in every episode. Wing works well I believe as a good step stool onto what we got later as a good overall introduction to Gundam. Look most of us know it's not a great series, but believe it worked well as an introduction. If we got G Gundam first that would've been good too, but G Gundam series isn't like the rest of Gundam with its political structure setup. I know it's a hot take but it's my hot take. I've come to really appreciate Wing for that. Wing is like getting introduced to pizza via Little Ceasers, but then you discover better pizza along the way like Gundam series. Yes, I did just compare Gundam to pizza, so what of it. I will say this about Wing is that when you watch the show, as much as you want to put your hand through the screen to direct people where they should go, you just cant. It's like watching a disorganized ant colony trying to function and you can only be an observer and ONLY that! You just take your hands away and just enjoy the tire burn. I think one of the most memorable moments when I recently rewatched it was spoiler[when Treize was having an inner monologue while holding back a mother from saving her child from falling into a lake, and then the kid runs back to his mother all while Treize is still having his inner monologue about how Zechs wont betray him. Was the purpose of the child falling into the water illustrating trust that Trieze is like a mother to Zechs? Yea, makes as much sense to you as it does me right?] Also the fact that the main strong hand Wing has going for it is its OST. I can always go back and listen to that, its so freggin beautiful. That OST is TOO GOOD for Wing, but having it on there does really help the show out because it really needs it. I guess for a show that shouldn't get any praise I sure do have a lot to say about it. X - This series for me while I enjoyed it, doesn't really stick well with me personally. It's not forgettable, but doesn't come to my mind often like the others. It's just really mid. However I do see some people on this forum that enjoy X, and im happy for you guys. I think these were the series I really wanted to share my views on. Maybe this post is the dumbest post in the whole topic or the smartest, only the audience can determine that. The thing is not to treat an article like its the final gospel and "be-all-end-all" when it comes to how people should watch Gundam. I'm frankly all about getting people into starting from the UC series, but starting off with Wing and G Gundam is what i feel better about. It's really up to your preference and judgement, but if we really want people to enjoy Gundam we gotta figure out whats a good place to start from. Hopefully my post is helpful to some, thank you. |
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tintor2
Posts: 2113 |
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Man. I didn't think this article would offend others but in twitter I've seen a lot of rage but from users who happen to have Judau's image.
About Char's Counterattack. It's the one I have mixed feelings. Not for Quess but by how Tomino rewrote Char after 100 episodes and made him nearly destroy Earth with the Axis. He becomes antagonistic to Amuro again out of nowhere but still provides him equipment to have a proper one-on-one fight which Amuro wins without receiving damage. Then before the two are about to die, Char pretty much complains about Lalah's death (this segment felt like the ending of Eren Yeager) even though it's been over a decade since her death and for some reason sees her as a mother. I have seen interviews Tomino made about the movie and even he had mixed feelings about the movie which led him to rewrite it as Beltorchika's Children and years later retcon in a short where Quess agrees to stop fighting when faced with Amuro and Bright's son. I wonder if the Tomino has other regrets similar to the changes he gave A New Translation. |
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