Forum - View topicAre we allowed to speak badly about Cowboy Bebop?
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simensays
 Posts: 14 |
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If we are here goes. and there is some spoilers that isn't tagged.
Ok, it is never a good sign when it takes me almost a year to watch 26 episodes. When people have CB in their top 10s, heck top 5 even, I assumed that this show must really be some awesomeness. For a show that was created in the late 90's the animation was really dated- kids the Matrix was created in '99! Anyway, lets just get to the story, many people hate DBZ because it is all filler, and people like to say it takes 5 episodes to throw a punch or go super sayian. But lets look at Cowboy Bebop, this show was ALL FILLER!!! I remember the first 10 episodes, there was 1 or 2 episodes that dealt with his old girlfriend, and that blonde guy that he hates that use to be his old friend(Vicious) That was it! So then the rest of the series did not mention this again, but we all knew it was coming in the end. But what angers me is that there was NO build up to that conclusion. We really did not hear anything about Julia i believe her name was, and that white hair/blonde guy. (Vicious) That last 2 episodes were so rushed, hell the action was in par with Black Lagoon in those 2 episodes, so that was really nice to see, but c'mon, did i wait 24 episodes just for 2 action packed episodes that felt rushed because they were still only 20minutes long. Look, this show had so much potential but they didn't develop any characters at all. I didn't feel sorry for anyone (only when Edward Left). Spike and Vicious (i wikied the name) have a relationship reminiscent of that of Brandon Heat and Harry MacDowell in Gungrave (a show that was all development and action) Now I haven’t seen the Bebop Movie, so maybe that may be why i find this show to be a waste. I'm not saying it was horrible, but 23 episodes were all useless, just catching criminals, sometimes not even that. I liked Spike he was cool, but im assuming people have this show so highly ranked becasue they just dont watch alot of animes unless it comes on Cartoon Network ie (Death Note being so many peoples number 1-it was a good show though i'll give u that) Anyway, watch Gungrave, Black Lagoon, Darker Than Black (almost as bad character development-but more action), Innocent Venus, GunXsword+ Samurai Champloo(same kind of premise as GunXSword) Tell me what it is that makes you love Bebop so much, cause I dont see it. I found that the crew didn't truly care for each other, which was sad. Only the last episode Faye tried to act like she cared, but it was because she had nowhere else to go, therefore she is simply selfish. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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The show is not all filler, it is simply episodic for the vast majority of episodes instead of serial. Also, the characters were developed, but maybe because you were upset at the lack of continuous plot in the series you failed to notice.
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simensays
Posts: 14 |
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i guess with that kind of post i made, i would receive responses like this.
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Killtheshrew
 Posts: 118 |
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Of course you're not allowed to speak badly about Cowboy Bebop... you know why? Because it's fantastic.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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As you should expect when you don't distinguish single-shot episodes from filler. Would you describe the entirety of Kino's Journey as filler? Or Mushishi? All the members of the Bebop got at least one entire episode devoted to the development of their character (Ed first joining the crew, Faye having been cryogenically frozen, the time Jet spent a day with the girl who was a friend's daughter or something). You don't need to like the series, but you need to expect to be called on your reasons when they're flat out wrong. |
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GhstDreamer
 Posts: 134 |
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To each his/her own - I mean personally I always thought Evangelion was a waste of my time (never was part of the teen demographic who enjoyed it). So yeah, you can speak badly about Cowboy Bebop, just tell us why though...lol...
However, I do think Cowboy Bebop was amazing! The first time I watched only a few of the episodes, I didn't enjoy it at all because I was still relatively new to the anime scene. A couple of years later after watching a lot more anime series, I went back to watch Cowboy Bebop and discovered how great it was - everything from the character development, storyline, animation quality and the cool music. I like how all that was accomplished despite the series itself being episodic. By the end, you can see how most of the episodes are linked together. If I was to introduce anime to someone who has no idea what anime is - I would never start with Cowboy Bebop. There are too many pop culture references that unless if someone is a movie and music buff won't really care or understand. The Cowboy Bebop movie is a filler movie but it was quite good - the animation quality was even better than the series. |
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Paludis
Posts: 46 |
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I thought it was good but very overrated. Maybe in 1998 it would have had more of an impact but watching it in 2006 it just seemed like your typical episodic action show. Last few episodes were fantastic, but I too was struggling through the middle episodes and it took me quite a few months to finish it.
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8490 Location: Penguinopolis |
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You're allowed to speak poorly of any anime title you dislike, but I wouldn't reccomend creating a thread for the sole purpose of expressing your distaste for an enormously popular title like Cowboy Bebop.
I've always found the charge that the series is too episodic or lacks development in the plot to be absurd, because the nature of the premise demands an episodic format. Much like the episodic, day-by-day nature of the main cast of Lupin III, living the lifestyle of thieves, the bounty hunters in Cowboy Bebop similarly live day to day, bounty to bounty. It's best thought of as a series of short films or vignettes on the lives of the main cast as they gradually unveil more and more of the world of the setting. Cowboy Bebop takes character types and adds them to individual stand-alone stories, executing those stories in a way that frames the overal setting of the series through the interaction of character types executed through both artful presentation as well as a philosophy (not to be taken literally - more of an approach) of the sometimes hopelessness and pain of every day life, exaggerated with cultural references and high action. Yes, it is an extremely visual experience - in essence it's a celebration of cultural hodgepodge with loose story elements from Hong Kong action flicks to tie it together in an underlying plot arc, but it also captures little representations of life and common situations and captures them in different ways, using its main cast as a way of probing these prospectives. I'll admit, that sort of set up isn't for everyone, but the show is far from "overrated" - it's one of the only titles I can think of that have truly earned the rating it has recieved. |
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violented16
 Posts: 81 |
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I think you don't like it because it isn't all new age hype and flash. Cowboy Bebop is defiantly not filler. Its just not overdone action scene after action scene. You must think many many other anime are all filler also if you look at it in this way (ie: Mushishi to name one).
The reason I loved Cowboy Bebop is because its almost believable. I mean if humans progressed into space hundreds of years from now, this is actually how it could be. Obviously not exactly the same but more bounty hunters because everything is more spread out making it harder for the real police. Of coarse there will be even more radicals since there is more people, better more dangerous drugs will always be around regardless. The story wasn't lacking anything for me, I'm not sure what you were thinking going into the anime but I believe its an unforgettable anime, like an Akira of the 90's (ya don't flame me because of this thought). The characters are believable. Nothing extra ordinary, but all greatly thought out and consistent throughout the series. All their bounty's are believable, tactics believable, always short of cash because of owning and operating their own space ship, believable. As for Faye heh kinda funny you mentioned her not caring because she really doesn't care about anyone even though she is working with them. She always thought of herself as an outside partner not a part of the crew. She cares enough to help them stay alive to make her more money. Maybe you just seen everyone rate this series so high you may feel let down since it isn't all flash that you might of hoped for. But thats the reason everyone loves it so much, it's because its not the typical space anime. You mentioned some people having it in their top 5. That is exactly where it is for me if I was to rate all the anime I have seen. I would have to think longer on the exact position but somewhere from #3 to #5. I'm sad to hear you didn't enjoy something so many others did but... suck it up. Not everyone loves the same things so... ya... |
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simensays
Posts: 14 |
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agreed
I am a firm "accepter" of ones opinion=)
is that the impression that i was giving off?
Well, a few months ago i watched 2-3 episodes of Mushishi and i felt like my eyes and ears were bleeding. So I guess you know me well. Im not going to watch Kino's Journey simply because you compared it to Mushishi. However I do like journey shows, then they cant be classified and filler, becasue the whole point is for it to be filler. ie Samurai Champloo and Gun X Sword Why i didn't like Cowboy Bebop. Well at about episode 22, i thought to myself. "this show is capable of going on forever, but yet there is only 4 more episodes whats going to happen." Well then i watched episode 25 and the end came knocking. Did the movie come after the series or before? Did Spike actually die in the end? |
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Veoryn87
 Posts: 808 |
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From what I understand the movie took place between episodes 23 and 24. I disagree with the animation being dated. Maybe it's whole look is "dated" since it's cel instead of digital (which I don't mind), but the animation quality still stands up to some of today's anime. The action scenes rocked. |
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Kelly
Posts: 868 Location: New York City |
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Hi Simensays. As far as I'm concerned, you're allowed to dislike anything you want, just as long as you don't insult anyone who disagrees with you and express your opinion politely
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I think part of why Bebop is thought of so highly is that for many anime viewers (myself included), it is often one of the first halfway decent adult-slanted series they ever watch - and it's also very accessible to western viewers culturally speaking. Bebop is not a personal favorite of mine, in part because of one of the last points you bring up - I didn't find most of the cast particularly sympathetic. But anyone who makes that complaint knew what they were getting into - after all, look at what line of work the main characters are in. Anyone who wants a touchy-feely series needs to look elsewhere. I do acknowledge that Bebop does have three things going for it - a handful of some of anime's best stand-alone episodes, one of the all-time great anime soundtracks, and one of anime's greatest endings. In light of that, in spite of it not being my particular cup of tea I certainly didn't consider it a waste of time and still feel that it's a series that most anime fans should get under their belts fairly early. |
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cool3865
 Posts: 770 Location: Austin, TX |
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im still trying to figure out why you compaired Cowboy Bebop animation to The Matrix??
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Cow-Boy_Be-Bop
 Posts: 670 Location: In front of the computer |
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I couldn't agree more. I have a question for Simensays, How do you compare Cowboy bebop to DBZ. They aren't ANYTHING alike at all. In length or plot. |
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Kirkdawg
 Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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I almost laughed when you said your eyes were bleeding from Mushishi; care to explain your position? I find it highly entertaining, despite it's episodic nature (like Bebop).
Also, why did it almost take you a year to watch this series? You may have appreciated you more so if you could remember what the previous episodes were like; you may have lost some of the excellent character development portrayed in form of episodes. Have you watched the dubbed or subbed versions? As far as I'm concerned, subs are 9/10 times better and it sounds like you followed Adult Swim's broadcast of Bebop. The dub really doesn't do the sub justice. Anyhow, let's not start a sub vs. dub argument here. |
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