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EP. REVIEW: I'm in Love with the Villainess


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Florete



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 380
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:26 am Reply with quote
Kelohmello wrote:
Am I the only one that feels this way? You can't just play the harassment for a joke and then suddenly ask the audience to take Rae seriously only when it benefits her character's portrayal. You have to properly address what's wrong with what she's doing as well. Either everything has consequences befitting the intended tone of the scene or nothing does.

You're not alone. It's been a not-uncommon criticism that Rae's actions early in the story are basically harassment and don't paint her in a good light. I take less issue to the stuff Rae does when Claire is actively trying to bully her (just because Rae actually liked it doesn't make it okay), but that stopped pretty early. The conversation in episode 3 provides a good lesson, but it is undercut by Claire arguably being justified in her initial reaction, due to the reasons you mentioned.
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Seagloom



Joined: 04 Nov 2017
Posts: 298
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:58 pm Reply with quote
oilers2007 wrote:
I don't see why censorship of the American version would affect an anime produced in Japan. Seven Seas edited quite a lot of of their manga and light novels at that time.. and still do, apparently. I'm not sure I've ever seen it leaked back into Japan and made them censor the original Japanese broadcast outside of Pokemon.


I didn't think it would. It goes the point I made in the last paragraph of my second post. When it comes to LN adaptations, anything too controversial or violent is usually toned down or removed if it isn't integral to the premise or plot. Often in subtle ways that will only be obvious to those familiar with the source material. Sometimes it even extends to the characters. I can't count how often a protagonist that had a personality in a novel is sanded down into another potato in adaptation.

When it comes to queer content they usually avoid most of it by ending an adaptation before it progresses to a point it can't be avoided without ruining the story. I tend to be cynical and lower my expectations as a result. (Suffice it to say I was pleasantly surprised when MagiRevo didn't end at adapting the second volume.)

In the case of I'm in Love with the Villainess, I saw it less as the 7seas translation directly influencing the anime than being an indicator of what might be removed in adaptation. I low-key expected them to make some kind of edit because this isn't the kind of yuri series that usually gets adapted. (Although going by what Florete wrote, it looks like they *did* cut that same bit anyway? Ah well. :p)
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4447
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 3:58 pm Reply with quote
Seagloom wrote:
Fluwm wrote:
I wasn't aware that'd happened... it's a helluva thing to cut because, as simplistic as it is, the very explicit and direct and uncompromising queerness of the series is, as you said, pretty fundamental to the story, elevating what would otherwise be just-another-disposable-Isekai into something genuinely worthwhile.


They cut a portion of it at least. Enough that it ruined any recontextualization of Rei's behavior. As a result some readers wrote her off as another Kuroko and never made it past the first volume. I remember being baffled at the time; knowing that while Rei is a polarizing character the hate seemed disproportionate compared to how she was received in the WN community.

Once translation inconsistencies were discovered in several Seven Seas novels, the backlash got so bad the author was being pestered about it directly on social media.

Anyway, it fortunately looks like this adaptation isn't going that route. I was worried since this series gets a little too real one too many times compared to say, MagiRevo, which doesn't bluntly mention real world social issues. Then there was what happened with "Witch from Mercury" after it aired. I can't take anything for granted when it comes to anime. LNs and manga are generally less risk-averse in comparison.


tell me about it.


Quote:
Sexually and romantically, she's exclusively attracted to women, and neither the characters nor the narrative are allowed to skirt around that issue with aphorisms or the like


which is the case for obvious series that are yuri in nature but was skirted around and if it wasnt for the pushback/backlash by anime fans, witch from mercury would have ended up as one of those series!

Quote:
For folks who might have been put off by Rae's occasionally invasive and often unwelcome advances, it cuts down the possibility of Rae winning her lady's love through attrition, making it clear that any potential romance between these two will only be possible if both of them can let down their walls. It's a turn for the serious that enhances the surface-level antics and has me deeply hooked to see where we go from here.


you cant be surprised by that though. there needs to be a fine line when it comes to a protagonist being so invasive and unwelconing that it turns off even the viewers!

in fact, was one of the major complaints and the reason why some old school yuri fans were put off if not outright did not like tenten kakumei aka the magical revolution of the reincarnated princess!

its because the protagonist ainspha is far too unlikable as a character with her occasionally invasive and unwelcome advances as well her "im smarter than everyone attitude so i know whats best for everyone" personality & the similarities between rae and ainspha are way too familiar so its not a surprise that are are people, even old school yuri fans that will be put off by rae's personality right now!

lets hope that the series use more of "yuri is my job" playbook and far less of tenten kakumei!

it it will help the series overall in my book!
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zfunk



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:26 pm Reply with quote
So Claire has gone full on Tsukene, this was a great episode. We know have the mascot of the series.

Love the sudden development in Claire, like I said she is know a Tsukene which is an improvement for her.

Rae overall knowledge of the world, I wonder how long till people get suspicious of her?
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yuricon



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 147
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:44 am Reply with quote
"Ironically, I'm grateful in this instance that the magic system is boring and straightforward since the show can just barely manage to have all the characters stand still while magic blasts out of their wands. Anything more than that and the whole episode would have probably melted."

Five minutes later, I am still laughing at this. Laughing
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 2902
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:53 am Reply with quote
Manga and ln wise fame based isekai have found ways to make the plot interesting.

My favorite one involves the isekai default route being a bad end route, so the reincarnated person has to get involved even if they personally just wanted to live a normal life... And here is the kicker, the plot gets derailed in ways the mc did not even expect or anticipate with their extensive game knowledge, because the game got sequels that the mc did not even knew existed and the changes they made to the plot were enough to trigger events from the sequels.

And I se where they wanted to go with the magic system, it was all setup to show that claire and thane are a good couple.
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Andrew Wonderful



Joined: 09 Oct 2023
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:16 pm Reply with quote
Florete wrote:
You're not alone. It's been a not-uncommon criticism that Rae's actions early in the story are basically harassment and don't paint her in a good light. I take less issue to the stuff Rae does when Claire is actively trying to bully her (just because Rae actually liked it doesn't make it okay), but that stopped pretty early. The conversation in episode 3 provides a good lesson, but it is undercut by Claire arguably being justified in her initial reaction, due to the reasons you mentioned.


I think it's also worth remembering that Rae is also an adult women at the end of the day. Even if she does behave better later on there's still the issue of a woman in her 20sish romantically getting involved with a 15 year old. I can see why that would put people off regardless if her behavior improves.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 1205
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:47 am Reply with quote
Not sure how to feel about this one. The novels are popular, but I never read them because, lazily judging by their cover, they looked pretty corny. So far, in many respects that seems to be true--isekai'd into a video game, magic school, romancing royalty (except not because she wants the ojou-sama instead), protagonist has unique special magic, and so on. All of this comes directly from an in-universe probably-low-quality dating sim, explaining all the cliches, but they're still there and the isekai-verse hasn't made anything interesting from them so far.

I'm guessing this is popular because of its extreme directness, both in terms of the lead announcing her gay attraction five seconds after reincarnating and in the lengthy conversation about sexuality later on. Weighing that against the harassment issue (which people would be much less comfortable with if this was a straight couple), plus the setting and animation being mostly mediocre, leaves it in a sub-optimal position. But it still got me to watch through episode 4, for whatever reason. Maybe something worthwhile is about to happen? Hopefully?
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5925
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2023 3:17 am Reply with quote
Andrew Wonderful wrote:
Florete wrote:
You're not alone. It's been a not-uncommon criticism that Rae's actions early in the story are basically harassment and don't paint her in a good light. I take less issue to the stuff Rae does when Claire is actively trying to bully her (just because Rae actually liked it doesn't make it okay), but that stopped pretty early. The conversation in episode 3 provides a good lesson, but it is undercut by Claire arguably being justified in her initial reaction, due to the reasons you mentioned.


I think it's also worth remembering that Rae is also an adult women at the end of the day. Even if she does behave better later on there's still the issue of a woman in her 20sish romantically getting involved with a 15 year old. I can see why that would put people off regardless if her behavior improves.

There is no issue, she is not 20sih in this life. Its like you'll don't want people who've had a second chance at life, to NOT be able to enjoy this life as their physical age. Somehow, us back seat drivers, expect reincarnators to penalize themselves, because they have been reborn with their memories intact or returned.
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Florete



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 380
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:08 pm Reply with quote
I don't think this content (ep 5) warranted a whole episode dedicated to it. Thane with Ralaire was pretty amusing, though.
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zfunk



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 302
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:12 pm Reply with quote
You know I just realized, this show is Little Witch Academia if the Diakko shippers got their way.
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Velorien



Joined: 28 Oct 2021
Posts: 109
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:25 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
There is no issue, she is not 20sih in this life. Its like you'll don't want people who've had a second chance at life, to NOT be able to enjoy this life as their physical age. Somehow, us back seat drivers, expect reincarnators to penalize themselves, because they have been reborn with their memories intact or returned.

Looking at it as "penalising" is a mistake. The issue is that a 20ish Rae has a lot more life experience and (in theory) emotional maturity than Claire. Arguably, you can even see this reflected in the dynamic of their relationship: Rae is always the one in control, always the one toying with Claire or steering her, arguably even harrassing her. Meanwhile, Claire spends her time frustrated and confused. We know that Protagonist Taylor and Claire's natural dynamic is that Claire is the socially untouchable bully villain and Taylor is the lowly commoner victim who finds solace in a love interest's arms, and it's only when Rei takes over as Rae that this dynamic gets reversed.

Now add in the inherent power imbalance resulting from the otome game setup. Rae knows every last detail about Claire's personality and background, self-professedly even better than her creators. Claire knows nothing about Rae except what Rae chooses to show her, and she lacks an enormous piece of the puzzle without which Rae's behaviour (from her casual defiance of the social order to her life-defining crush on Claire to her ability to make Claire's father take her seriously) makes no sense.

These issues aren't viewer preferences. They're inherent to the setup of the story, and the author has to choose whether to address them as part of the narrative or sweep them under the carpet in the name of wish fulfilment. Mostly, we're seeing the latter.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5925
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:52 am Reply with quote
@Velorien
The reasons are irrelevant. Penalize is quite fitting. You are asking people who have been reborn/reincarnated, to not live a full life. That they must distance themselves from their physical age group peers. Those same peers, will not understand that distance and think bad things about the reincarnater.

And that not even discussing the effects of a youthful body will have on their mind, and the natural physicals effects of youth on that body.

And if we are being honest, I think everyone would use their knowledge of this world to their own benefit. Really, if we bought the cool-aid, we would have to call Katarinia (My Next Life as a Villainess) evil, because she literally changed everyone around her using her knowledge of the game. She established relations and made friends with her physical age group, using her evil knowledge to change them from what they were to be.
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Velorien



Joined: 28 Oct 2021
Posts: 109
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 4:40 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
@Velorien
The reasons are irrelevant. Penalize is quite fitting. You are asking people who have been reborn/reincarnated, to not live a full life. That they must distance themselves from their physical age group peers. Those same peers, will not understand that distance and think bad things about the reincarnater.

And that not even discussing the effects of a youthful body will have on their mind, and the natural physicals effects of youth on that body.

And if we are being honest, I think everyone would use their knowledge of this world to their own benefit. Really, if we bought the cool-aid, we would have to call Katarinia (My Next Life as a Villainess) evil, because she literally changed everyone around her using her knowledge of the game. She established relations and made friends with her physical age group, using her evil knowledge to change them from what they were to be.

My point is that you and I are approaching the story from different angles. A storyteller's objective isn't to make the characters happy. It's to tell a story that is, among other things, as plausible as possible within the confines of the rules of its setting. When a smart wizard forgets that they have the perfect spell to solve their problem, that's implausible. When a setting has live video conferencing via satellite uplink and cities communicate via messenger bird, that's implausible (that's Naruto, incidentally). When a super-stalker-tier knowledgeable twentysomething from another world lusts after a fifteen-year-old and these differences aren't obstacles for their relationship to overcome, that's implausible.

A good storyteller takes the time to address any improbable plot points. Maybe the smart wizard was feeling sick and couldn't think clearly. Maybe the video conferencing requires all the countries to be involved, so you can't use it for one-on-one communication. This anime doesn't address the implications of the various gaps between Rae and Claire, even though in a real relationship, their influence would be overwhelming. Instead, it is my impression that it chooses to pretend these factors don't exist because, like you, it wants to make the characters happy rather than to deal with the obstacles that would stand in the way of that happiness, or at least significantly influence its form, in a plausible story.

Edit: as a separate point, the in-universe ethics involved are an issue of their own. If I were in Rae's place, I would at least ask myself, "Is it OK for me to pursue a much younger girl over whom I also have massive power because I know everything about her?" I might decide that yes, it is, perhaps for the reasons you give, but I also think it would say things about me as a person if I didn't even consider it.
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Fluwm



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 1014
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:17 pm Reply with quote
Velorien wrote:
These issues aren't viewer preferences. They're inherent to the setup of the story, and the author has to choose whether to address them as part of the narrative or sweep them under the carpet in the name of wish fulfilment. Mostly, we're seeing the latter.


That's pretty much par for the course with this kind of thing. I've commented to this effect before, usually in the context of comedy manga oriented around neurodivergent-coded characters, but it applies here, too: if you interrogate the premise too deeply, it can swiftly transform a story from comedy to tragedy -- or horror.
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