Forum - View topicMalevolent Spirits: Mononogatari (TV) (w/ index).
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Edjwald
 Posts: 1586 |
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What if I brought an extension cord? Alright, fine. I guess next would be...omigod, it would totally be my Swiss army knife! How cool would that be?!? (and if it might be my toenail clippers, I'm pretending really hard that's not true) B-Dragon - Maybe a pen tsukomogami could write narratives on the air that would have some effect on people's perception of reality... Yuna - I guess a plushie could absorb impact without taking damage... Wow, we're just one lab accident away from forming a super team... |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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Was watching the first couple episodes of the Backbeard arc of GeGeGe no Kitarou (2018) the other night. The initial episode, #26, is all about how an evil spirit takes over smartphones and turns their users into zombies or worse.
The writers of that show are no fans of social media. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1586 |
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It's a Pandora's Box in my opinion.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15576 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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If I was just hating the show, or uninterested in interacting over it, I would just drop it. There was so many shows this season that I really had to make a decision to just not pick up or continue several shows that I might have normally done so. This show has managed to get some emotional reactions out of me, which is why I think the very opening of the series was so strong. But some frustration I have felt is that I don't think it has done much to live up to it in the other parts that should be important. It should make me feel like he has had some important interaction that would change they way he feels, just like what sent him thinking the way he did from the start, but the show has been weirdly passive with his character growth. That he thinks better of them just because they have not actively been predatory, but from my view that would normally work better if we were coming from that being the status quo, such as from the heroine's perspective, but we came from his. It in turn, along with me just not being able to stop and enjoy it for what it is, makes me question if his perspective even made sense in the first place. Since theoretically he should have interacted with more peaceful ones before now. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1586 |
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Couple of thoughts after this week's episode.
(1) Didn't Hyoma say something about the tsukumogami who killed his siblings having something to do with an umbrella? And what was with that umbrella fade out? I guess Umbr means shade. Maybe some kind of power to cast shadow the way an umbrella creates shade when it unfolds? (2) With all of these evolving mystical clans, I'm sort reminded of Kaze No Stigma...except that I like this show a lot better. (3) I really hope they never do some BS about Botan being possessed by a dark spirit. (4) Hyoma really is without artifice. I would have been tempted to pretend to go along with the creepy old clan master so that I could learn some more info and get out of there without fighting for my life. But y'know, the show has been really consistent about that aspect of his character. When he was staring at Botan with his eyes wide open after she offered him a hand warmer, and then held that moment as if he could become violent or friendly at any moment...I think what I took from that was that he was looking at her completely openly, without lying even to to himself about what he was seeing. And he was seeing a good person even if he didn't understand it. For me, that quality explains a lot of his actions and attitudes. Man, I look forward to this show every Monday. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24157 |
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Episode 7
Welp, not too surprising that some factions are already taking action. A bit surprising to me that it's some fellow humans who are making the first move, though. I have to say their approach to Hyouma was pretty artless. Given the fact that they know he hates tsukumogami, they should have tried to play on that and bring him along slowly. Try to convince him over time that when Botan's marebito wakes up, it's going to make the tsukumogami who killed his siblings look like child's play. I'm not saying the more drawn out, subtler approach would have worked, but at least it would have a better shot than this clumsy, "hey we don't know you, you don't us, but howzabout being our proxy and killing Botan for us?" Either the Kyoto bunch is super pressed for time or didn't think he'd go for it under any circumstances so what does it matter being more artful or maybe they're just stupid. In any case, Hyouma is getting the opportunity to open a can of whoop-ass which is fun. I wonder if any of the Six tailed him just in case he ran into a sticky situation. Yu would love the chance to pull his chestnuts out of a fire, I'm sure. Stay tuned. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2967 |
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#7
So far, so good. I knew Kyoto's group would be animated since their VAs were announced before the show's premiere. Old man Kadomori's voice is a bit too thick for my liking, which coupled with his typical Kyoto accent makes him difficult to understand at first hearing. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with the performance. He does sound like a bird of prey with his change of tone between friendly grandfather to threatening Yakuza leader (yes he's not Yakuza, but some of his underlings certainly dress the part. I know who they really are, so I'll leave the surprise for the next episodes). Aogi going to the Nagatsuki household is a short arc which is very good for setting up what's to come. Viewers have already seen the first of the major factions not trusting what Kunado is up to make a move, and there are two other factions who have yet to show their hand. Suffice to say I'm not sure how much has been decided for adaptation, but if they make it far enough to showcase all three that is going to be a surprise for me because it's a lot of ground to cover in just a single quarter. That is enough to indicate when this adaptation will finish, unless it gets another quarter of airtime. As for the umbrella, that's a surprise that will have to wait for viewers not conversant with the source material. Again, it really depends on how much ground this adaptation intends to cover. The main focus of this week is Hyouma vs. the Kyoto Saenome. They've already underestimated him once, thinking that a simple ambush will stop him when he's just a rich heir who's doing a homestay. The scars on his body should be clear enough even to casual viewers that his training isn't just body building and endurance; he knows how to fight. They're underestimating him in more ways than one as well, but that's a surprise I'll leave anime-only viewers to find out. So far the action scenes are panning out just as they're portrayed, although the art style for the still figures was somewhat lacklustre this episode compared to previous weeks. As for speculation about why Kunado Hyouma is so hell-bent on his hostility towards Tsukumogami and how unrealistic it is, is it any surprise he's not the only one in this franchise who hates Tsukumogami and what they inherently are? The Kyoto group fight differently from him, but their philosophy is also very clear. Tsukumogami are dangerous entities capable of harming and killing humans in the mortal world and once they've crossed the line towards harming humans they are to be sealed and then "recycled" by the Kyoto group to be used under the service of humans. The analogy towards indentured slavery isn't a difficult one, but the stakes are high as the implications of what happens when Botan is no longer a neutral party are explicitly stated in this episode. The Six who guard her have already said what she embodies is inactive, but Kyoto fears that one day if it comes into play and they cannot control it reliably they have a weapon of mass destruction in their midst. Old man Kadomori has also remarked how deep and festering Hyouma's hatred towards Tsukumogami is, something Haori also mentioned in previous episodes. The fact that he (in his usual blunt and direct manner) says he has taken a liking to the Nagatsuki household can be taken for what it is, or it can be twisted by viewers who cannot accept what is given as something genuine and instead contrived to move the plot along. So be it, like Haori said if the premise of the franchise isn't accepted there's not much point watching further. Next week is actually a big week as far as action scenes are concerned. The Kyoto Saenomo arc is one of the more significant combat arcs in the early volumes and next week in particular has to be done well to keep casual viewers in for the action invested into further viewing. Also, the series cannot afford COVID-related production delays in such a crowded field so keeping a clean airtime run will maximise what chances it has of raising interest in the print franchise and increasing the likelihood of further adaptation. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1586 |
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Yah, definitely a case of trying to crack eggs open with a sledgehammer. I took it as the following. - the clan is heavily outnumbered and outpowered by the tsukumogami around. Otherwise, given their attitude, there wouldn't be so many free agents running about. The clan has gotten more brutal, which has made the tsukumogami more aggressive and hostile in return, which means the clan has gotten more brutal, which has made the tsukumogami more aggressive and hostile in return...so we're looking at a moebius strip of a pissing contest where neither side respects the other. In order to bolster their numbers, the clan started turning tsukumogami into drones, which is an evil act no matter how you look at it. Sentience is sentience. Over the years this practice has been a corrupting influence and a power trip. And maybe the clan head was already a control freak to have even gone there. Isn't that his issue with Botan? "If we could control her, that would be one thing..." - Kyoto (right name?) has a longstanding history with hyouma's grandfather. He didn't really expect or want Hyouma as an ally. That's where all the contempt and the rich boy stuff is coming from. I thought it was interesting that Kyoto was sneering because Hyouma's grandfather's jurisdiction is full of meek and tame tsukumogami. He takes that as a sign that they have it easy instead of even considering that it might be a sign that the grandfather's approach works better. So maybe he is brutal and stupid. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2967 |
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Speculation from anime-only viewers is amusing and humorous at times, this is one of those occasions. Especially speculation based on what has only been shown so far, which is a very incomplete picture.
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Edjwald
Posts: 1586 |
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Yah, that's where part of the fun of it is for me. Sometimes I get stuff right, and sometimes I'm way off. I have a coffee mug that says, "Give me a minute to overthink about it."
But you'll all regret mocking me when Midoriya's mom turns out to All For One on My Hero Academia! You hear me!?! You'll see! (sob). You'll all see... Last edited by Edjwald on Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:32 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1586 |
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Harley - Btw, I was really hoping not to get involved in this, but I'm a bit uncomfortable because I like your posts on this forum and Saving 80,000 gold, and I like Dusky's posts on Reborn to Master the Blade and Eminence and Shadow, and I like both of your posts on Bofuri. I have a different take than Dusky on this show, but it's not like she's bothering me or ruining the anime for me. If anybody's posts were souring something I enjoy, I hope I'd get to a point where I just quit reading the posts instead of getting pulled into pettiness.
Cos I've been pulled into squabbling before, and said things I regretted later. So, I can't make you, but I kind of wish you'd stop with the pointed remarks about how some people should stop watching the show if they don't like it. Look at it this way: (A) Dusky really doesn't like the show, and she's enjoying nitpicking at it to try to ruin the experience for people who do. If that's true, you're just playing into her hands. (B) Dusky is just expressing her honest opinion, and you find it irritating because it's extremely contrary to yours or because your personalities just don't match in this instance, and you're feeling protective because it's easy to feel like the shows we love are our babies. So to speak. If that's true, you're just working yourself up and seeming paranoid and hostile. Either way, there's no upside. There's no law that says we have to read or respond to someone's posts if doing so is interfering with our ability to enjoy the show. Of course, eventually I'll perfect my opinion influencing ray, and then buckle up for s long run of sequel seasons for Grimgar, Fantasy and Ash, Girl's Last Tour Ben-To, and Kawaii Complex Guide To Manors and Hostel Behavior. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24157 |
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@ Edjwald - if I wanted to be more charitable to the Kyoto bunch in terms of their clumsy approach, I could look at it through the lens of the fact that, as Harleyquin pointed out, they've badly underestimated Hyouma. Now that's on them for not doing their research properly. However, from their perspective they've finally got a potential "in" in the Botan household and so moving fast - before other factions can possibly kill or neutralize Hyouma - makes sense. Having underestimated him, they wouldn't particularly care if he doesn't take them up on their request voluntarily because as far as they are concerned, they'll simply take him over and convert him into their tool.
... Heh-heh-heh, surprise. Oh, by the way, I would be totally up for sequels to ALL those titles you cited. If I was in charge... |
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b-dragon
Posts: 497 |
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It is definitely a bit off that the Kyoto group opted for the tactics they did. What was the plan here? Mind control if he was unwilling to cooperate sounds feasible, but would that be terribly difficult to figure out? And if he escaped, what then? Hyouma's not exactly a nobody- did they think there would be no consequences for attacking Zohei's grandson? They are part of the same org, and he's of higher rank. At a guess, the idea may be that by seizing or offing Botan, the power dynamic changes enough to oust Zohei, rendering any discovery of mind control moot. But that seems...very all-or-nothing, a particular gamble if they didn't do much research on Hyouma in the first place.
I'll spitball a (likely incorrect,) theory here. Hyouma is bait for the supposed "bird of prey". And probably other elements in the area as well. And perhaps Zohei intentionally suppressed or altered info about Hyouma to make him seem less capable than he actually is, in order to be a better trap. It kind of follows: Hyouma's a simple fellow, and this meeting was going to happen. If we assume Zohei could predict the old goon well enough to predict he'd try something aggressive, Zohei'd know how Hyouma would respond. Hyouma is intended to cripple the Kyoto Saenome, and even if he doesn't completely eliminate them, since they attacked him first it paves with way for official censure as well- weakening their authority, and perhaps allowing Zohei to solidify his own. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24157 |
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@ b-dragon - personally, I don't think Zohei had any idea of what might happen to Hyouma once his presence in the Botan household became general knowledge. He had to know it was going to be putting Hyouma in a highly dicey situation, but presumably he has enough trust in his grandson's abilities and in the Six to offer some protection to propose the idea of Hyouma going there in the first place. As far as I am concerned, I still don't know Zohei's real agenda for sending Hyouma there. I'm not buying the training rationale... at least not as anything other than a secondary goal.
As for the Kyoto bunch, I honestly think their over-riding goal is to get rid of Botan as quickly as possible (to prevent whatever may happen when her marebito wakes up). It's nothing personal. Their thinking has a ruthless logic to it. We don't know what will happen when the day comes so let's just treat her like an unexploded bomb and get rid of her before she goes off. Given that is their priority and given they underestimated Hyouma, trying to take him over so that he could slip back in the Botan household and kill her makes sense. They should have done their homework on Hyouma, is all. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15576 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Pretty sure that I mentioned that one thing I thought was missing for this Human vs tsukumogami plot was to actually have some villainous humans, which I do think is fairly late for there to barely be any real mention until episode 7. Even still, they sort of mentioned that this is one human group, with two tsukumogami groups in a similar position, so these are the human villains. And as Blood- said their method does seem really odd to have practically gone straight to telling him to kill his housemate, and refusal meant that they had to attack him. Surely they could have tempted him more, say by maybe that he could learn from them, the supposed reason he is with the family. I also didn't know if the sorts of magics humans can use against tsukumogami could be used against other humans.
Also seems pretty obvious that the umbrella woman is probably the tsukumogami that killed his siblings, that a fake out would kind of be more unexpected. We also got the return clarification that he apparently does hate tsukumogami, which is a little out of step that he has been so quick to accept the family. If I understood what the humans were saying, the tsukumogami kind of gain domain over what they possess, and said that might mean that when Botan's spirit thing is released she could control all tsukumogami. But that doesn't feel like it fully makes sense, and there is kind of a more obvious dangerous answer, that she could actually control all humans, as it is a possession of a human, which really kind of sounds terrifying. I imagine that could be the interesting turn with the human group that are using talismans to control tsukumogami, and the one thing they could be afraid of would be a tsukumogami doing it to them. That could be a really interesting plot about control, and play on Hyouma fear of a lack of control, or something that even more could target humans. @ Edjwald Off topic, but I think that is the first time I have been referred to with those pronouns outside of something like a video game, which I won't say I have a problem with it. Just a new experience that I am going to process what that felt like, while I have hardly been able to ask people before to use "they". |
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