Forum - View topicINTEREST: Japanese Communist Party Claims No Contradiction In Opposing Regulation of Anime, Manga
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babajones
Posts: 14 |
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When they say children, do they mean loli characters or are they talking about those 15-17 year old teenage characters who have massive boobs and hips ??! Cause many of these characters look like adult and can easily pass as an adult.,... I can easily make same drawing and then say those characters are 20 year old . After all, it is just drawing with made up age....
Also, does JCP party have any proof that sexualizing fictional character (even 10 year old loli) have any real life impact ?? Is there any actual damage to society ?? Does this make a normal person become child abuser after watching anime ?? If no, then there is no good reason to ban it |
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redaga
Posts: 26 |
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By that logic, literally any depiction of a crime in any work of fiction will be considered an influence/ promoter and ergo should be banned/ "regulated" also, Pokemon is Satanic too, and we are in 1990 again apparently if that is the ideology that people still hold to |
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Mizuki-Takashima
 Posts: 215 |
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(Gonna add spoilers to chunks of this post because I mention depictions of child sexual abuse. You have been warned)
So, in other words; Individual artists are free to express themselves, however they so wish. But it's up to the artists to sort of police themselves, and keep that shit on the down-low. Say Comikett for example: maybe keep the depictions of spoiler[child sexual abuse & exploitation-- which would include shota's & loli's, but also include kids dressed as middle schoolers & high schoolers] behind a curtain with huge 18+ signs so kids & teenagers don't end up stumbling their ways over there on accident. And instead of spamming wholesome Pixiv Tags with very...unwholesome works, perhaps keep that shit behind a paywall (Fanbox) or forgo posting it online in the first place. spoiler[(I'm still reeling from when I clicked the "Infant" Pixiv tag expecting to see cute anime babies, but instead found uncensored drawings featuring baby rape. So I would rather they just not draw or post that shit outright. I reported them and blocked them too)] Since the JCP are anti-capitalism, they probably don't want to see entire whole-ass corporations making bank off lewding kiddos. spoiler[(Shueisha gets away with a lot of shit and they don't even put content warnings in Weekly Shounen Jump)] Where as if a doujinshi artist wants to sell limited prints of a school girl in a mature situation, that's their "freedom of expression". However, it probably wouldn't hurt the "artist" if they took the time to self-reflect. That's probably where the "We hope for society to reach a consensus on not allowing children to become the subject of sexual abuse and exploitation." quote comes from. |
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yro
Posts: 9 |
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Saying that loli/shota hentai is child pornography and should be banned is like saying shooting games are murder and should be banned too.
It simply makes no logical sense, and is just politicians trying to get the moral high ground to get elected. |
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monsieurb1982
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Japan is such an unique country. Even the far left, the communist party, prefer to discuss and respect the freedom of speech.
Where I live, there were an author who wrote an horror book about Hansel and Gretel. In this book, there is father who abuse her daughter. You know what? The author was send to a tribunal and was almost send to jail. The trial took a year or two and the life of the author was destroyed. And when you read the book, it's clear that the author wrote it to talk against child abuse, not to arouse anyone. By the way, he's gay and not attracted by young girls. So here, we are not talking about drawings anymore, but about text. And it's not even porn, it can be just some text took out of context that can send you to jail. And for drawing, it's not even clear that ecchi with characters under 18 is legal. Because the law against real child porn and fictional one is the same. So most of anime could send you to jail if someone have the money and energy to sue you. Or at least it's to be decided by the supreme court. I live in the most loved country of the world. It's called Canada. So when I see what they are talking about fictional porn in Japan, I wish they would not change too much. When they talk about hiding the porn anime from children and teens, I'm totally okay with that. Or against stuff with real people too, I'm okay they fight real abuse. But not when it's about fictional characters, because when you take a step in a direction, you never know where it will lead you. I know that, I live in a country that can be dangerous for anime fans, even if you don't even watch or read hentai. |
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3563 Location: Finland |
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For a party with such a jiffy name, they sure do seem to have a reasonable, common sense, take on this specific issue. I give them credit for that.
A lot of commenters in this thread seem to have either not read the article, or understood it fully, seeing posts claim the opposite, but it's stated right there in the article, explicitly, that JCP are NOT out to ban fictional material(fictional child porn included). Also, thanks, @monsieurb1982, albeit I knew of the case, I didn't know the details(this made me go googling for it) or how absurd the whole thing was... |
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monsieurb1982
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You're welcome! Yes, it's absurd and that can be scary for people living in Canada. If the judge decided to put that man in jail, the editor, all the people in charge of all the stores that sold the book and all the customers who bought the book could also be send in jail. Now, the man is free because what he wrote against sex with people under 18. But I always wonder if it was a consensual sex act between two teens, what would happen? For example, in the Ayashi no Ceres opening, where you see a girl making love in an artistic way... not pornographic... how do the canadian law see that? No one can say the creators did that opening because they are against what we see. It's shown in a positive way. So that's why these laws can be so scary. It begin with stuff almost anyone hate like lolicon hentai, but it never stop when it's set in motion. Also, with the canadian law, and I'm totally okay with that, we send a man and a woman in jail because they took pictures of a preteen girl in bikini with some sexy poses they asked her. These pictures are considered as child porn, even if there are no nudity. And it's considered as an abuse because they used the girl. And I think it should be that way. It's not as bad as a rape, but it deserves at least a punishment. BUT because in the canadian law the child porn definition include drawing and texts, it can really be scary. In some other countries and states, at least, they have laws for real child porn and laws for obscenity that include drawing. But not here. So sexy drawings in anime could be considered as porn, for example girls in a beach. So if one day in Japan they decide to include fictional characters in child porn, all the nudity with underage characters in anime will be banned, so Love Hina, Dragon Ball, novels of Sword Art Online, etc. Why? Because even the nude art with children is considered child porn in Japan. After that, if they decide to forbid underage sexy photos because well... it's bad... if the law include drawings and is binded to real photos in the same law, it's easy what could happens. Almost all anime, let's say My Hero Academia, One Piece, almost anything, could be banned from Japan and would disappears in an instant. So when people are talking about lolicon only, they don't know how bad it can be in the future. in Canada at least, we're halfway in that future I was talking about 20 years ago when the began with what they called moderate laws. Everyone were laughing at me... Now the time proved me right. And unfortunately, there is no turning back in sight when it begins, because even if these laws are wrong and are going too far who is going to change them? If someone just try to talk about this, he or she is called a pedophile. So because of the social pressure, when these law are adopted by the politicians, it's will unlikely be canceled after. It's a one way ticket, even for Japan if they decide to go that way... Not the day after they create the new laws, but eventually, with time, like it's the case in Canada. It so easy to predict. |
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WisteriaCrow
Posts: 5 |
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At the risk of going off topic, what is the rationale for why this is classified as CP? Abuse I can see since it’s likely the man and woman had the girl do things she wasn’t fully understanding at her age (or perhaps there is a more sinister element.) But as far as the images themselves being cp, what separates the images themselves from other images of preteens in bathing suits? Just the erotic posing? I feel like that could be very subjective if so, and is another of those things that will eventually spiral into anyone under 18 can’t wear a bikini. It’s wrong to take advantage of a kid like that regardless, but I feel lumping that in the same category as nude or even sexual act photos of kids is downplaying the severity of the latter. |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13615 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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From a practical standpoint, arguably some anime or manga with such imagery is arguably CP from a practical standpoint. However, I do agree that is subjective as to when it is. Even as a fan service fan, I can get turned off by loli-type stuff. Thus, I often make it a point to avoid such stuff.
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monsieurb1982
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You have a good question. It's really hard to tell why these photos were considered child porn. And the journalist can't describe the photos, because just writing a text that describe child porn is child porn. So if they do that, they could go to jail (for producing child porn), like all the people who would read the article (for accessing child porn). So basicaly, we can't really know when it's okay and when it can lead to jail, because describing it in a text is also illegal. I imagined that the photos were going too far, but when I think about it, we all don't know... If the judge decide it's child porn, it's child porn and nobody will never know. Same thing with sexy drawings too. That's where we are for now. End of off topic. |
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Hi! Jhonathan
Posts: 35 |
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There are many things that Japan do that the west doesn't |
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Fireminer
Posts: 18 |
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It's the same kind of rhetoric many Democrats and Libertarians used to say about weeds: "Oh, I don't like them, and I think they're bad for your health, but if you want to use them it's your right." By phrasing this way, you risk angering no one. Even the most developed societies still believe in a lot of obsolete bulls*** in this day and age. |
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Hi! Jhonathan
Posts: 35 |
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Passage of anti-child pornography laws have actually significantly reduced the production of junior idol material. You just don't read about it on an anime site because it isn't anime. Anyway, if you actually have reading comprehension skills, the JCP's position is quite nuanced and one I fully support. There's a number of ways to push for a culture shift without resorting to censorship. It's a lot harder than just passing a law but much more effective in the long run.[/quote] I don't see a lot of nuance in what they say, they're basically stating that "maybe we shouldn't use the law to end this, since it isn't exactly a crime or hurt real people, but social pressure, since we believe that this can have negative impacts on society in some way". And also it's a little strange, and even scary, when a political party start to say that they want to make a societal push to change something, since we don't know how this social push will work or where it's gonna end, maybe it ends in lolis or maybe it just ends up affecting all the section of the Otaku market who's interested in sexy artworks or even works that use sexualization and sex as part of their narratives. I believe that there should be more discussion on how to avoid letting children have contact with content that can hurt them, but this discussion should be focused on protecting children, not on banning on censoring content Last edited by Hi! Jhonathan on Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:26 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 687 |
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I actually looked up the details of the Hansel and Gretel case and it is absolutely not the slippery slope you’re pretending it is. Someone made a complaint under their existing law, which the court then acquitted the author on after they ruled that the law didn’t encompass his work. The Supreme Court then denied an appeal because they agreed with the lower court’s ruling. Going “if they did the opposite” is nonsense because it didn’t happen, snd now they have this case as precedent for the future on when that law is applicable and when it’s not. As for the “man and woman jailed for bikini pictures” that is so incredibly vague that it was impossible to find any source for, but there were a handful of stories of couples with *hundreds* of files of child porn where you find commenters claiming that *maybe* it was just bikini photos etc etc. Either way, you wrote a lot of scaremongering that is actually evidence for why these laws are not a slippery slope despite how loudly this comment section keeps shouting that fallacy. |
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Blanchimont
Posts: 3563 Location: Finland |
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The Supreme Court of Canada denied the appeal because it felt it didn't have jurisdiction in the case, leaving the door open for Quebec to appeal to the province’s Court of Appeal. However Quebec a week later announced they wouldn't appeal the decision. So no clear precedent was set. And the case did have consequences, the case while ongoing surely took a toll on the author, both socially and financially, he even contemplated suicide at one point during the two years. Once the final decision came, he yelled for hours on the steps of the courthouse out of relief. It didn't affect only him, his editor faced similar consequences and was charged(charges were later dropped), and the publisher collapsed, leading to 40 people losing their jobs. Compare this to the case of the translator in Sweden, who likewise was charged on similar premises, for possession of manga-styled 'CP' images. He was eventually cleared. But not before losing his job, his marriage, his social life. An equally tragic tale. As the case concluded in Swedish Supreme Court, at least it got a precedent there. As the law is currently written, in the Canada case, making no distinction between fiction and non-fiction, it should be amended, or a new law written to supercede it. As it is now, it's only another charge away from yet another human tragedy... Last edited by Blanchimont on Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:31 am; edited 2 times in total |
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