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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24137
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Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:28 am
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I've actually had a real life experience that matches Yoshida's. No, not having a teenager hot for my form, unfortunately, but the whole "confess to a woman who rejects you then changes her mind when she thinks there might be another woman on the scene." This was with respect to a work colleague of mine (not my boss) and it was exactly the scenario above. I confessed to her, she declined, we went on with our lives and then a little while later she overheard me talking to another colleague about inviting a certain woman to the office Christmas party. She decided she didn't like that idea and we started going out. Classic.
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ACxS
Joined: 03 Aug 2019
Posts: 959
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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:15 am
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4:
Pfft, predictable.
Yoshida has the right to be peeved at Gotou, even more so when she's the woman he likes. Having being rejected by her, only to be told that he's been lied to and that she's liked him all the while only now when she thinks that maybe Yoshida is going out with another woman... that's convenient and manipulative. The only thing worse than this is if Gotou had used her authority as a manager to sway the situation even further.
I was wondering: why couldn't Yoshida just say that Sayu is his cousin? You know, rather than using inconsistent lies such as childhood friend/friend/"big brother"/whatever other excuse he thought of. Seems irrelevant right now, since he's coming clean with anyone who really wants to know who she is. But before this, I just wonder why he can't be consistent with the charade. Maybe it's because Asami's right: he's just that bad a liar.
And JEEZ, what's up with Yoshida's workplace? Everyone's getting into Yoshida's face about his private matters. I'd lose it if I were him!
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 24137
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Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 5:38 am
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This show is really hitting the wish fulfillment angle hard. Oh, the large-breasted woman who "rejected" you actually really digs you! And she's a virgin! And you've got a hot little high schooler who wants to jump your bones! Oh and a junior employee wants you too! I guess maybe next episode Yoshida will win the lottery or something.
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Harleyquin
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2961
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:17 pm
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#5
Finally, the long-awaited showdown between the lodger and the landlord's love interest. Only it isn't a showdown, rather Gotou managing to get Sayu and Yoshida to spill the beans on their true relationship and becoming only the second person in Yoshida's work circle after Hashimoto with the inside scoop of Yoshida's ethically questionable relationship.
I actually like the way the camera focuses on Gotou and Sayu side by side. It doesn't take much to imagine that Sayu could age and become very similar or a doppelganger to Gotou as she is now. The conversation the two of them have in private is important as well, since it gives Sayu someone else other than Yoshida she can confide in, especially as her workplace colleague isn't always available to chat to and Yoshida is male.
I share Sayu's sentiments regarding Gotou; she's difficult to read and it still makes no sense why she rejected Yoshida when her own comments indicate she's not interested in anyone except him. To Yoshida's credit it appears Gotou isn't the only one of his superiors who rates him highly, so ruling out personal bias towards a subordinate is possible.
Mishima adds another facet to Yoshida's increasingly milieu of personal relationships. She couldn't be more direct with her protests regarding Gotou yet Yoshida is so dense he won't take the hint (and she knows it). If Mishima really knew what relationship Sayu and Yoshida had, I wouldn't be surprised if she called the police on him.
There's a post-credits scene, which unfortunately means trouble in the horizon for Sayu. The male colleague looks suspiciously similar to one of Sayu's previous caretakers, plus the additional comment to keep his hands off the new recruit indicates he has a reputation for womanising. This could be an issue if they do meet face to face further along the series.
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ACxS
Joined: 03 Aug 2019
Posts: 959
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Posted: Mon May 03, 2021 10:38 pm
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5:
You know that old chestnut in romance? That it's cruel to be kind? Yeah, that's the message being imparted to Yoshida. Yoshida being nice to every girl/woman he sees is being cruel to all of them at the same time. Because love is a selfish thing, right?
I like how the whole thing went down between Gotou and Sayu. I expected Gotou to become like a big sister to Sayu, more so when she's a figure of authority both to her and Yoshida. What could've happened is that Gotou turned territorial and antagonize Sayu. If I were to be cynical, maybe Gotou is territorial and is taking on the role of being Sayu's big sister in order to keep her under close watch. But no, I'm not sensing that. They're cool right now.
Mishima pointed out what I indicated before: that Yoshida might fall for Sayu after all. But I think Yoshida isn't aware about the most obvious thing: why does Mishima care so much about Yoshida's private matter, when she's only his subordinate? She stalked him, observed him, has outbursts over what's right/wrong about his decisions. That's not something a colleague would bother to do (unless she likes him). This further cements how Yoshida is your (stereo)typical all-round nice guy who can't take a hint about women's feelings.
So, now we're going to see some trouble at Sayu's workplace. Is the guy someone Sayu slept with? We can tell, he's bad news.
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15573
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Tue May 04, 2021 3:58 am
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My take is that the guy at the end is probably one of the guys that "took in" Sayu, and so it probably would not be great for her mental health to be stuck with him. Hopefully at least they can keep the dude away from Sayu, at best if he is an adult, and Sayu could do so safely, they could get him in trouble with the police.
I was a little worried when it looked like Gotou would be pressuring Sayu to leave and do so in the immediate future, but great when Gotou was looked heartbroken in hearing that Sayu had been selling herself for a place to stay. And great at the least that the two of them seem to be getting along and Sayu can talk to her. It was the hope that Sayu would have more people she can open up to about things she might not be able to with others. One would think that Sayu would be safer with Gotou, while at the same time the episode pointed out that Yoshida is maybe being too nice in the first place.
Please anime, you can defy the tropes you keep leaning on and giving the warnings about not letting this get romantic, even in a case where maybe when she gets legal or something. There does not need to be any expectations of romance in this relationship. Except maybe as also said Sayu could get confused with her feelings and take something as romantic, before getting a better grasp, I could see that.
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Harleyquin
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2961
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:55 am
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#6
It's not a surprise who he Yaguchi is in relation to Sayu. What's surprising is how quickly this complication developed, resolved and moved the main plot along.
Yaguchi's a chad and freely admits it. On the other hand, he actually kept his word to Sayu and Yoshida (he didn't reveal the past relationship to Asami for the former and ate his onigiri in the back office without making advances at Sayu at the shop for the latter). His perspective on the relationship isn't surprising; every other male who let Sayu in temporarily in exchange for sex would in all likelihood have said the same thing he did. Although he thinks Yoshida's self-righteousness is a turn-off, it doesn't look like he's attempting to blackmail Sayu despite the hold he has over her. For the time being, she probably won't have to worry about him (his point about being a criminal himself for their past liaison remains valid).
Based on her appearance and speech pattern, most viewers would never guess Asami's family background. Working at the convenience store is probably another way for her to get more attention from her parents or just to blow off steam away from a stressful household. Blood will tell though; she inherited enough traits from her parents to intimidate Yaguchi sufficiently to force the apology.
As for Sayu, she's been pouring out buckets starting from last week's episode. This episode brought two bouts, not sure if I could continue watching if she continues to be a faucet. On the plus side, it looks like she's found some self-confidence and trusted Asami enough to open up about her past despite her reticence at the start of the episode.
Halfway through, and the series has turned out to be quite different from its initial premise. Bar episodes 1 and 3, it's actually been more about interpersonal relationships keeping uninformed viewers interested in the ongoing story. Despite this episode's waterworks, I quite like the direction the series is taking as the characters are likable and viewers are given clues as to why Sayu is a runaway. Still not sure if it's going to end up as a cradle-snatching sordid romance, but it's been a good watch so far and am looking forward to more.
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15573
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 am
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I don't like Yaguchi, and I don't like the bit that made him look a bit nice in him being able to keep his word, since it almost forgives him for not doing so. Yaguchi attempted to rape Sayu in this episode, he did not take no for an answer and started to force himself onto her, including some blackmail he pulled in the moment to manipulate her into giving "consent". That part when Sayu started to concede right before Yoshida came back was not true consent, it was the result of manipulation, including what he did to even get into the room in the first place. Rape does not start physical manhandling to prevent the victim from getting away, it can include manipulation such as tricking someone into to drinking as to lower their judgement. And it would include the shit that Yaguchi pulled, which were very much to manipulate her into thinking she had given consent. Let alone that she can't really give consent as a minor.
Asami and Sayu were great though, they were able to open up to each other, it was a very sweet scene, and filled me with some good feelings. I am trying to make sure I only see it as just two friends holding hands and staring into the stars and into each other's faces.
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ACxS
Joined: 03 Aug 2019
Posts: 959
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:18 am
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6:
ACxS wrote: | Is the guy someone Sayu slept with? We can tell, he's bad news. |
Addressing our suspicion right from the get-go. Outstanding!
Yaguchi is basically a plot device, and yeah, I know he's despicable. Sure, some people would try to justify that Sayu was in on it too by "agreeing" to sleep with him to stay at his place. But that's simply victim blaming. And that's not cool.
And that "oh, other from that incident at Yoshida's place, he seems cool, right?" No, don't forget who's the aggressor here who's trying to exploit the other party. I can conclude that he's cynical and maybe even nihilistic a little.
"Okay okay, I was too rough that. But hey, she wanted it, I wanted it, so what's the problem? Why bother going to lengths helping someone I don't know?". This is how Chad Thundercock thinks, and Yoshida's basically the opposite. They just won't see things eye to eye: Yoshida wouldn't understand Yaguchi's cynicism, and Yaguchi wouldn't understand Yoshida's altruism (or "righteousness", as he put it).
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Harleyquin
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2961
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:11 am
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#7
Spring moves on to high Summer, and it looks like the next challenge for Sayu to overcome has snuck up on her without her realising it. This week isn't just about Sayu though, for the first time viewers actually learn about Yoshida's past. Also, he's getting more than a few reminders about his choices with Sayu and how the relationship they currently have is always supposed to be temporary.
For the Sayu arc, the cars staking out the convenience store belong to her older brother. She's said absolutely nothing about her past to date, but he's the CEO and president of a food company which bears the family name. The fact she's trembling in the same manner as she did last week when faced with Yaguchi again shows this isn't something ordinary. Ironically it seems her venture out to the real world with the part-time job allowed her family to pick up the cold trail again (viewers are reminded she spent most of her runaway life lodging at men's homes for sex, so she couldn't be tracked easily if she stayed indoors all the time).
Another thing about Sayu: she hasn't participated in formal schooling for almost a year yet has almost no issue taking on the study guide Asami was cramming during their stayover at Yoshida's pad. She's clearly got the brains for academic learning, yet gave it all up for the vagabond lifestyle. Viewers not privy to the source material are only given snippets of what might have driven her away from Hokkaido, but I doubt it was something to do with academic pressure which Asami faces.
As for Yoshida, Mishima has finally lost patience and has decided to go on the offensive. Although her confession to Yoshida during the phone exchange scene had a bit of comedy to it, her point about him putting himself first in his exchanges with others and fooling himself into thinking it's for the benefit of the other party certainly hit home when everything else didn't. Her outburst against Gotou would certainly set tongues wagging as well.
Is it just me, or does the senior student Yoshida used to date when in high school bear more than just a passing resemblance to Gotou? The eyes are the same, as is the hairstyle and build. It would not surprise me if the person in the photo was Gotou and that Yoshida joined his current company to work with her in some capacity. Evidence against this would be the mole; in the photo it's in a different place to Gotou in the present.
This episode is a tipping point: something has to give now that Saya has been located by her family. Yoshida is the target of affection for several interested parties, although it appears for now that Gotou still has the edge despite her confounding policy of bemused inaction. Yaguchi's got some cheek to claim he didn't like the senior Ogiwara's penchant for exploiting power when he used to do the same with Sayu, but his decision to help hide Sayu indicates he's no longer after her as a predator. What he did last week was beyond the pale, but Sayu knows he'll take her side if brother Kazuto makes another visit.
The series is heading towards its end-game and I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Compared to the first episode and a few sordid instances afterwards, the series has unfolded in a manner which I did not expect when I took it up on a whim. Hopefully it stays on the right side of audience expectations and makes it to the end without getting cut off because of controversy like last week.
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ACxS
Joined: 03 Aug 2019
Posts: 959
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:08 pm
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7:
In sum, Mishima is your archetypical 'kouhai who likes you'.
Let me explain using the convo she had with Gotou and Yoshida.
With Gotou:
Mishima and Gotou both know that each knows about the story between Yoshida and Sayu. So now, it's a clash between ideals: what would you do for someone you like, when there's a 'potential threat'.
Gotou: just let the situation work itself out. Reason: if they do like each other, then it's just not meant to be for Gotou. Better a genuine reality than a fake ideal.
Mishima: do something about it. Reason: if you really want it, you would do whatever it takes to get it.
So clearly their ideas are at odds with each other, but also clearly, Mishima doesn't take Gotou's response more than the other way round. Gotou's idea of liking Yoshida is more selfless and unconditional: "I like him regardless of the outcome between him and Sayu". Mishima's more traditional(?) idea of liking someone is more selfish: "I feel insecure about the two of them and I'd probably regret if I don't anything about it". So in response to Gotou's response: "...and I took that personally".
--
With Yoshida:
I realized how Yoshida is so much like me. Why? Yoshida doesn't exchange numbers if there's no particular reason for it. Logical, very utility-based thinking, and very me. Example: in my own office, I rarely talk unless there's something to talk about. I've been told before that I am callous and rude, and I get it. Meanwhile, my boss and colleague seem to talk for the sake of talking (which kinda of irritates me imho). So why has Yoshida exchanged numbers with Sayu and Gotou? Simply because he has to talk about with them (but of course, he's clueless at that point that Mishima wanted his number because she wants to talk to him since she likes him).
So of course, Mishima does her "...and I took that personally" (again) and tells him he should not decide everything by his own standards. See, this is where I have a problem with Mishima. Because people who say that are probably committing the same offence themselves. By saying this to Yoshida, she's already imposing her own standards to him―see, that's called 'projection'―without realizing it herself. She's already done that with Gotou, and she did it with Yoshida (again).
So why do I think Mishima is a 'kouhai who likes you'? Because they fit the category: idealistic (naive), strong ideas of her own (intolerant of other ideas), assertive (pushy), eager (clingy). That's a stereotypical kouhai right there, at least in anime.
So now that Yaguchi saved Sayu's ass from her brother, does it mean he's redeemed as a character? No. That doesn't pardon what he did to her. He's still shitty, but he's not all shit.
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Harleyquin
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2961
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 11:45 am
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#8
It was coming, but the brother has finally tracked down his sister and has come to take her back. Since the whole episode is basically a lead-up to the last scene, it's no wonder Sayu herself took the hint from Mishima and decided she had to make a memory to keep with Yoshida while she still had her freedom.
The two of them effectively went on a date, but the relationship they now have is indeed what Mishima has pointed out: psychological dependence. Yoshida never asked Sayu for sex in exchange for room and board, but he has grown comfortable with his live-in housekeeper and companion. The scene playing out in his mind where he'd go home to his empty apartment after working late and then spending his free time essentially alone more or less captures what he's concluded: after having Sayu as a housekeeper/roommate he can't see himself returning to his pre-Sayu days.
As for Sayu, she's very grateful for everything Yoshida has done for her but also realises she needs to drum up the courage to go home. That courage is needed now, for she can no longer run and must face up to her past. Speaking of the past, next week is finally the time to see what drove Sayu to run away. Based on the hints from the episode, she's used to being lonely and didn't really enjoy plebeian pursuits like summer festivals or cotton candy.
Poor Mishima. She's head over heels on Yoshida but knows she'll never get the same treatment that Sayu has. Not sure if she'll give up or continue to give it her all until he reciprocates (which isn't likely).
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ACxS
Joined: 03 Aug 2019
Posts: 959
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Posted: Mon May 24, 2021 10:23 pm
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8:
Oh, Mishima.
After spouting her ideal about doing whatever you can to get the one you love, and identifying Sayu as a potential threat, I would think that probably she wouldn't be as nice toward her. But then I thought, "nah, she's not the kind who would throw Sayu over a cliff just to win a man".
So even though Mishima knows that Sayu is the apple of Yoshida's eye, she wouldn't say, vicious enough to rat Sayu out to her brother and remove her from Yoshida's life. Because Mishima wouldn't have approved that kind of chance at getting him. But then, that's where the irony comes in: if that's really the case, then she's doing exactly what Gotou explained before. It finally hit Mishima that she "lost" to Sayu just by looking at how Yoshida looks at her. Meanwhile, I'm just wondering if she finally realizes what Gotou meant the other day.
It's pretty inevitable that her brother will (try to) take Sayu home. But what I'm really happy to see how Yoshida says she needs to go home. It would've been a blatant cop-out if he had said otherwise. The whole "what if" scenarios were nice to see, and IRL this kind of imagination is good for exercising gratitude. Yoshida's life has become less boring after meeting Sayu, and more importantly, he helped someone in the process. What a nice guy.
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Harleyquin
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2961
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 12:01 pm
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#9
Finally, viewers find out why Sayu decided to be a runaway. It wasn't meant to be pleasant, and the truth turned out to be not far off the mark. Bullying in Japanese schools has been a scourge for decades and suicides make the news (and make money for those selling the news). As to why the pair of them didn't report the bullies, it's not as simple as it is because of various reasons (cultural, Sayu's background etc.).
It's not just the suicide that forced Sayu into a corner. Looking at her family background, it appears to be three persons since there's only one parent with the elder brother being the main breadwinner with the mother pursuing her own career. If your parent flat out accuses you of driving your best friend to suicide, I would be far more surprised if the response was to laugh off such an accusation as a joke. The pressure and expectations on Sayu won't have gone away since she left, and she'll have to face the consequences when she eventually returns home.
Yoshida actually took the day off to host Ogiwara Issa when he entered the apartment. Although unsurprising since the pair of them are emotionally dependent on each other, this would come as a shock to his colleagues (at leas those who aren't aware of Sayu as his lodger). He's in a bind as well since he knows their relationship must come to an end, yet he's wondering how he can keep his promise to get her into shape when they first met.
No surprise Asami was invited to hear Sayu out. The timing was probably mid-afternoon, since it's a weekday and Asami would need to finish school and be off-shift in order to answer the request. Being Sayu's first friend of roughly the same age since she ran away, it would have damaged the relationship permanently if Sayu hadn't asked her over. Whatever happens to Sayu at the end, those two will keep in touch as they share too much for the relationship to fall into entropy.
Sayu's brother Issa bears some responsibility for the whole mess. Although he meant well after hearing what Sayu said to him, the solution he offered probably made things worse. No wonder he spent time and resources trying to track down Sayu. No idea how he caught her trail all the way from Hokkaido, but his offer for an extra week of freedom for Sayu will probably be the last act of support he can provide before she has to return home.
Is the series still going to degenerate into a cradle-snatching romance? There are some signs, but I'm hoping the series ends in a satisfactory manner for all parties. The characters have grown on me and it would be a shame if the finale was a damp squib.
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ACxS
Joined: 03 Aug 2019
Posts: 959
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Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 10:44 pm
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9:
Finally we get to the root problem.
I'm not surprised that Sayu's problem is related to school bullying. Not surprised at all. There's like a 90 percent chance that it's going to be something like that. But that's not really why she ran away; it's because of her mom's callous comment. Or to be specific, her mom's callous attitude towards Sayu.
Here's the thing: I get how Sayu's mother seems to care more about reputation than her daughter's welfare (I can assume she's a person with a lot of clout). I get how Sayu's brother thinks it's a good idea to put some space between Sayu and their mom. What I don't quite get, is how Sayu's brother think he can just set Sayu free after what she went through.
I know he cares. He's a good guy stuck between Sayu and their mom. But man, it wasn't wise for him to just give her a big wad of cash and tell her to stay anywhere but their home for the moment, especially when Sayu's suffering from a traumatic experience. Understandable if he thinks Sayu shouldn't be at their home for now, but incredibly shortsighted to not plan about how to help Sayu.
It just doesn't rub me the right way. He tells Sayu about how predatory men can be, yet it never occurred to him how maybe giving her money and just go anywhere when her mind's not in the right place isn't exactly prudent. Maybe he allows her to do that so that their mom will have a harder time tracking her, but if he's the caring brother that I believe he is, I expected a bit more sense of protectiveness from him. He has good intentions, but he didn't plan things out for Sayu well, I must say.
Like Harleyquin, I have an uneasy feeling that this is going to be a cradle-snatching romance too. Honestly I don't want it to be that way: we know that the solution is to hash it out between Sayu and her mom, not just house Sayu forever and simply run away from the problem. But this story might descend from "what should happen" to "what eventually happens", and if it does become a cradle snatcher, then I'll be disappointed.
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