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AsuraTheDestructor
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 485
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:48 pm
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And While I don't dislike Himbo's as an archetype, the ditzy aspect does feel like an over correction at points in media, especially in modern Rom coms where every Male adult protag is portrayed as someone with Himbo characteristics or bumbling their way through life.
Parenting the Husband is a side effect of how this trend can be over saturated.
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15573
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:57 pm
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JoelBurger wrote: | If "plenty of Himbos are intelligent", then it feels like there should be a more accurate term for the character type than "Himbo" |
I think this goes into the answer that I have seen, that it does not have to be about how "intelligent" they might be, but that they might put above needing to appear smart. Again, think Elle Woods from Legally Blonde, she is smart enough to become a lawyer, but also much at home prettying herself up and having fun, while also very positive to other people.
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15573
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:02 pm
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AsuraTheDestructor wrote: | And While I don't dislike Himbo's as an archetype, the ditzy aspect does feel like an over correction at points in media, especially in modern Rom coms where every Male adult protag is portrayed as someone with Himbo characteristics or bumbling their way through life.
Parenting the Husband is a side effect of how this trend can be over saturated. |
I would say that the parenting the husband is a bit of a sexist cliché, along the lines of men being simple or something. It is why I think that the Himbo can also be an effective one when they might also act as the caretaker. Like Kronk putting an apron on and caring about his spinach puffs.
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Horsefellow
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 262
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:12 pm
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tintor2 wrote: | Hard to see the appeal these guys have to women. I mean Dragon Ball started as a really ecchi series where Goku used to touch everybody's crotch region and his master's attitude was the subject of a lot controversy whish resulted into a major complaint in regards to a late Super episode.
Ryoga starts as innocent but his obsession with Akane... also, while Kamina sure is an appealing male, there was the famous incident from an early episode that had to be toned down due to the timelot not fitting for Kamina wanted to see every girl naked regardless of cause. |
Yeah, if "respecting women" is a qualifier for a "himbo" than a lot of these examples should be disqualified given their pervertedness or general dismissive attitude towards the female characters in their series. Even in Super, Goku was making fun of Bulma's breasts being all saggy and old now and helping Roshi out with his sexual assault antics. Unless himbo just means "dumb, hunky guy" but isn't that basically a jock?
AsuraTheDestructor wrote: | And While I don't dislike Himbo's as an archetype, the ditzy aspect does feel like an over correction at points in media, especially in modern Rom coms where every Male adult protag is portrayed as someone with Himbo characteristics or bumbling their way through life.
Parenting the Husband is a side effect of how this trend can be over saturated. |
Generally the "manchild sitcom husband" is overweight and average looking at best so I'm not sure if people would count folks like Homer Simpson or Peter Griffin as himbos (Golden era Simpsons and Family Guy only, obviously, not jerkass Homer or psychopath Peter)
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Kuzu
Joined: 13 Sep 2019
Posts: 149
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:18 pm
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ATastySub wrote: |
Kuzu wrote: |
I said I do understand, so... |
Kuzu wrote: |
Not that its the intention of the article, but why do I feel like the implications here are that women can only be comfortable around when they're mentally inferior? |
The thing is that if you really did you wouldn't need to ask this. As already explained it's not about mental capacity, it's about harmlessness. Plenty of Himbos are intelligent, and part of their appeal is how smart and capable they are at their passions. The article even includes examples of this. The part worth examining here is your "Why do I feel" statement, and understanding that you saying
Kuzu wrote: |
I understand where it comes from mind you, but |
means you really don't. And it's ok not to know that! The article even opens with how the concept in reality doesn't fit what you would assume at face value, because the term Himbo is taken from is soaked in the same misogyny that the character type is an escape from. Any problems with the implications there are the problems with the patriarchal system they are standing away from. In the same way that same culture pushed the idea that women could only be friends with gay dudes, only to then be reactionary about how media portrays straight men as predatory for not having female friends without sexual interests. So no, as much as you think you understand I think it's more that you lack the recognition that you don't, and not brushing off explanation's like the article itself and Octopodpie's response in favor of stating that you already knew, while stating something opposed to that understanding, is a good way to actually begin to understand. |
If the term is meant to be an escape from a derogatory stereotype, then why use a name that's meant to draw attention to it? If its meant to be a positive representation, then wouldn't it make more sense to have a term that reflects that, as opposed to the implied meaning behind Himbo?
I'll fully admit that I'm not the most versed on this subject, but shouldn't we be moving away from that? You already explained the negative connotations behind the term "bimbo", but if we're meant to accept "himbo" as a positive term then why draw the comparison at all?
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15573
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:32 pm
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Kuzu wrote: | If the term is meant to be an escape from a derogatory stereotype, then why use a name that's meant to draw attention to it? If its meant to be a positive representation, then wouldn't it make more sense to have a term that reflects that, as opposed to the implied meaning behind Himbo?
I'll fully admit that I'm not the most versed on this subject, but shouldn't we be moving away from that? You already explained the negative connotations behind the term "bimbo", but if we're meant to accept "himbo" as a positive term then why draw the comparison at all? |
Answers that I have seen about reclaiming and such these sorts of terms is that if someone might call them something anyway, redefining the word under their own positive terms can remove its power from others using it against them. Like LGBT people reclaiming queer, where it might have used to only had negative connotations attached, now many can use it without it needing to be an insult, and less power to those who might try and use it as such.
I have seen the discourse of women trying to reclaim bimbo away from negative associations, and although perhaps not all the way there yet, I would like to think it could be helped by even using "Himbo" to refer to the idea of men and not mean it in a negative sense. Using Himbo can help the Bimbo.
I really hope none of this sounds offensive, because I understand it that many women can find it such with just the idea of more casual use of "bimbo". But I do think this goes a way to stop the general cultural mindset of hating things that are even girly.
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Fenrin
Joined: 19 Dec 2015
Posts: 703
Location: SoCal
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:08 pm
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Horsefellow wrote: | Unless himbo just means "dumb, hunky guy" but isn't that basically a jock? |
That is very true! Here's a quote I've seen floating around to clarify:
Quote: | A himbo must, MUST, be Kind, Beefy, and Stupid. Only Kind and Beefy? That's just a hunk. Only Beefy and Stupid? That's just a jock. Only Kind and Stupid? That's just a decent man! |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 02 May 2011
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Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:16 pm
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Top Gun wrote: | I'm hardly an expert in such matters, but besides Kamina and Galo most of the characters mentioned don't seem very close to the himbo archetype at all, if for no other reason than their physique. I mean, most of them are twigs. The ur-example of a himbo in my mind is Kronk from The Emperor's New Groove: built like a truck, dumb as a brick, incredibly kindhearted, and makes a mean spinach puff. |
Kronk is definitely a 100% modern idea of the himbo. Perhaps it could have been articulated a little more clearly, but guys like Lupin and City Hunter's Ryo wouldn't classify as modern himbos; they're closer to "lovable rapscallions" a sort of himbo predecessor that helped form what himbos are now. Speed Racer has more of the general personality although he lacks the warmth. He's 'vroom vroom car go fast' Captain Obvious type.
The modern himbo is Makoto from Free!, Back Arrow's Back Arrow, Mirio as was previously mentioned, almost any of the Joestars but especially Joseph, Galo from Promare, Akira in Devilman crybaby, etc.
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2267
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:43 am
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octopodpie wrote: |
The modern himbo is Makoto from Free!, Back Arrow's Back Arrow, Mirio as was previously mentioned, almost any of the Joestars but especially Joseph, Galo from Promare, Akira in Devilman crybaby, etc. |
I would posit that Joseph Joestar’s perverted antics towards his teacher puts him closer to “lovable rapscallion”, but I think his considerably milder ancestor Jonathan Joestar definitely fits.
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter
Exempt from Grammar Rules
Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 4630
Location: Gainesville, FL
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:08 am
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octopodpie wrote: |
Top Gun wrote: | I'm hardly an expert in such matters, but besides Kamina and Galo most of the characters mentioned don't seem very close to the himbo archetype at all, if for no other reason than their physique. I mean, most of them are twigs. The ur-example of a himbo in my mind is Kronk from The Emperor's New Groove: built like a truck, dumb as a brick, incredibly kindhearted, and makes a mean spinach puff. |
Kronk is definitely a 100% modern idea of the himbo.
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The first time I heard the term was actually in a late 80's or early 90's episode of Designing Women (soon after the defining article mentioned here) in which Annie Potts' character finds herself in a relationship with a sweet, gorgeous, but rather dim man. Played by a young Patrick Warburton. He's been perfecting the role for 30 years.
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MarshalBanana
Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5500
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:17 pm
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That statement from Monkey Punch sure was unexpected, I know he's supposed to be a bit of bastard in the Manga, but I didn't expect him to spell it out how he would have done it.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16963
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:29 pm
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Call me an old curmudgeon if you must, but why the hell do we even need a term for this? Why do we have to categorize women and men period with pointless and trivial monikers? No you're not THIS kind of person, you're THAT kind of person, or maybe I'm something else. Why can't people simply be "a nice person" and we call it a day? Why do we have to label and categorize people like this at all? I wouldn't personally want to be slapped with some label regardless of what it is. It seems to simply devalue the person as they're not an individual, they're part of some sort of group that we arbitrarily place them in. I do not get the need or fascination with these arbitrary and ridiculous terms that change like the wind. Instead of just saying he/she is a nice person, or an asshole. You either treat people with some respect, decency, and value, or you don't. Real simple that way.
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 02 May 2011
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:46 pm
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Himbo isn't a term used to classify real people, it's for fictional characters and has the same shorthand usage. "Manic Pixie Dream Girl", "Sexy Librarian", "tsundere", "good badboy" are all examples of this. Call me naive, but honestly, the vitriol coming out over an article that highlights one of these examples that is used predominantly by women and queer folks is not something I expected.
Liking himbos doesn't hurt anybody; let folks enjoy their beefcake.
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15573
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:02 pm
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Psycho 101 wrote: | Call me an old curmudgeon if you must, but why the hell do we even need a term for this? Why do we have to categorize women and men period with pointless and trivial monikers? No you're not THIS kind of person, you're THAT kind of person, or maybe I'm something else. Why can't people simply be "a nice person" and we call it a day? Why do we have to label and categorize people like this at all? I wouldn't personally want to be slapped with some label regardless of what it is. It seems to simply devalue the person as they're not an individual, they're part of some sort of group that we arbitrarily place them in. I do not get the need or fascination with these arbitrary and ridiculous terms that change like the wind. Instead of just saying he/she is a nice person, or an asshole. You either treat people with some respect, decency, and value, or you don't. Real simple that way. |
Probably why referring to real specific people without their permission of such is a bit iffy. It is a character or personality trope, and real people are generally more complex than just character tropes that it is not entirely fair to hold real people to tropes. Other character tropes are things like tsundere or manic pixie girlfriend. Recognising archetypes to characterise common character traits can be useful to understand maybe why such characters exist, and maybe when one is subversive.
Culturally, at least I think that the himbo can be a way to separate out certain elements of toxic masculinity from other masculine characteristics, and can be subversive in separating worth from "intelligence", especially within a medium where people who are nerdy might find it easy to put not very bright people in an as negative light as possible. A sort of nerd elitism of bashing the normies.
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3670
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:05 pm
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But some of those examples do create a lot of complaints, particularly the Manic Pixie Dream Girl, which are then turned around to make a statement about the kinds of people who enjoy them. I think it reflects the fact that people have a lot of fundamentally different relationships with fiction, but don't realize that their own approach is not universal.
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