Forum - View topicINTEREST: RetroCrush's Magical Idol Pastel Yumi Stream Credits Unauthorized Fansub
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FireChick
 Subscriber Posts: 2478 Location: United States |
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Indeed, and for all we know, they might even address this. From what I've seen, they've been pretty good about rectifying various problems with their service, if a little later than usual. |
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Narutofreak1412
 Posts: 338 |
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They should've just asked the subber beforehand.
If it was my sub, I would've happily let them use my work without any compensation. Because I only sub anime or live action that's not legally available in english, so english-speaking people can give it a chance and maybe it even helps the work getting better known in the west. So by providing my subtitles to a licensor that wants to officially bring the work to the west, I would feel honored to be part of the reason the work got a proper release and having my name appear in the official credits of a work I am dedicated to. A bunch of years ago, in germany we even had some cases where a licensor was openly working together with fansubbers, so they could make more obscure stuff available for streaming. I also heard that Crunchy likes to hire german fansubbers to translate subs from english to german. I don't have a proper source for that but based on how terrible some german subs are (looking at you Wake Up Girls), I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6900 Location: Kazune City |
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Have to wonder what "on time" even means for a streaming a show from 34 years ago.
Indeed, we saw (as you may recall) a [url=animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-09-28/singapore's-odex-subs-haruhi-with-similar-text-to-fansub]similar situation[/url] with Odex using fansub scripts for Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. It was generally agreed upon that a.f.k. wouldn't have legal standing to take action against Odex for using their translations without permission, since they didn't have the authorization to create those translations in the first place. Though maybe there is some law or ruling that requires the fansubbers' permission, as samuelp states above. We've also had at least one case of fansubbers being officially credited on a legal release, with AnimeNation's Risky/Safety attributing translations to VHS fansubbing group Sachi Gumi Distribution. Presumably those usage rights were duly requested from the group, and the scripts were approved by the Japanese side. |
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Swissman
Posts: 793 Location: Switzerland |
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Sound terrible. Things like this happen when a company wants to maximise its profits while keeping the expenses as low as possible. A german manga publisher once put some character introductions in the appendix of a certain manga which were heavily "inspired" by character introductions I wrote two years earlier for a review of the same manga which I put on an old website of mine. I wasn't particularly pleased with this, but also not pissed of. I just wish the publisher had the decency to contact me and ask for my permission to use my writing. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2665 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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I did a quick search, and AnimeNation's John Oppliger actually talked about his time with AN Entertainment back in April! Here's what he had to say about Sachi Gumi's credit in Risky/Safety:
There we go, definitive proof of an official anime release using literal fansubs (as a base, at least)! |
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hikura
Posts: 565 |
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Most fansubbers do not own any rights to what they are fansubbing. It is a work of passion.So unless the fansubber had some rights to be fansubbing it he can not really complain. It is like if someone stole a car.Then modded a car and then someone else then stole that car.The first thief can not complain about the second thief.
Now do not get me wrong retrocrush does not come out of this looking good at all.They are in the wrong too for this situation.They knew what they did was wrong. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10455 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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This is not correct. Translations are very interesting copyright cases. The copyright for the derivative work itself belogs to the creator of the derivative. ie: The copyright for the translation belongs to the translator. Distributing it without their permission is copyright infringement. So Johnny English does have legal recourse. Assuming they're American, that legal recourse is limited to about $500 per episode, assuming that they didn't register the copyright with the US Copyright Office (I think the number is $500, but don't quote me... it's a small amount). That said, translations are derivative, but not fair use*, so while the copyright of the translation belongs to the translator, the copyright of the original also still applies. Distributing a translation without permission of the original works copyright holders is infringement. I assume that the copyright for Magical Idol Pastel Yumi is registered, so the copyright holders would be able to sue Johnny English for significantly more than $500 per episode. If Johnny English were to be so foolish as to sue RetroCrush, he would likely immediately face a much more significant counter suit. It would be like lobbing a 1-kiloton nuke at the US, much worse would come your way very quickly. So, tldr; version is exactly what Sam said:
Longer and more technical explanation (it's worth a read): https://copyright.uslegal.com/enumerated-categories-of-copyrightable-works/translation/ * Regarding copyright of derivative works. Derivative works that involve significant creativity are often considered fair use if they are transformative enough. If the resulting .work is a whole new work. The law/precedent in the United States is very liberal in terms of allowing derivative works to be fairuse. Most other countries aren't nearly as liberal on this aspect of copyright. |
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