Forum - View topicSpice and Wolf main character spelling.
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Ultenth
 Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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There seems to be some disagreement regarding the correct spelling of the main character from Spice and Wolf. In most cases on most websites she is being referred to as Horo (a simple websearch will find the truth of this) whereas some sites (such as your own) refer to her as Holo. There has been much debate on this issue, but it seems most people (including the wiki website referring to the anime) have settled on Horo, so I am just suggesting that a change be made here as well. If you like I can post some of the debate regarding the spelling that has occured elsewhere if you need further edification.
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Gage
Posts: 480 Location: United States |
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Since there's a "debate" on the correct spelling, wouldn't that mean there's no right or wrong version of the spelling? Can't two exist without there being an immediate problem?
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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There's no such a thing as "your own site." Names of characters are submitted by various users. I'll look into the case and see if I can find a more authoritative source for the romanization. UPDATE: The official site uses Holo. End of story, unless there's a source more authoritative than the official site of the anime adaptation -- that can be no other than the author him(?)self. 
Look at the file name. And a note to Ultenth: if you find the existing plot summary has some errors or not good enough, write one yourself instead of copy/pasting one by another, with just a single letter changed. |
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Ultenth
Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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Personally I don't find a pic file put up by some random web designer hired by mediaworks to be authoritative, but if you are going to trust some random web design grunt I guess that's your perogative. Even though about +5x more sites across the internet use Horo as opposed to Holo (if you don't trust me do some advanced websearches yourself), and it is by far more accepted. I just thought it might be a good idea to have some semblance of uniformity to avoid confusion by people trying to look up information. Even in the ANN forums here in the S&W thread almost everyone exclusively calls her Horo, so I just thought I'd mention it.
The issue of course is with Japanese itself in that there is no L or D or R sound, just a unique sound that lands somewhere in between all 3. Go to any website listing Hirigana etc. characters and their correct romanizations and 99.9% (including the Library of Congress) will have a translation available for a romanized ro, but no lo or do. Also, if you say the word Holo out loud in English it sounds like "hallow" (such as Holograms or Holocaust), whereas the proununciation on the anime itself sounds more akin to "whoro", which would be easier to pronounce more accurately with the spelling of Horo as opposed to Holo. |
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Gage
Posts: 480 Location: United States |
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Well it is hard to go against the series' official website. Maybe its met to be pronounced both ways? |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I'm guessing you don't speak Japanese. At the very least, you might try to write "hiragana" and "transliteration" correctly. Yes, RO/LO are interchangeable in transliteration, because the sound of the R/L flip is close to both. This is a perennial problem, and although I personally almost invariably prefer the R transliteration, we usually defer to the most official source -- as in this case. But there most certainly is a separate DO sound in Japanese, and separate hiragana transliteration for it. Base your arguments in actual facts next time, it's a great advantage. - abunai |
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Ultenth
Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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Again, the website is official, but I HIGHLY doubt that the random web designer (who probably gets paid not much more than minimum wage) that put together the site for Mediaworks asked Isuna Hasekura the proper way to Romanize her name. So until we hear directly from him or a game/dvd/manga/novel is put out with Roman lettering on it we won't know 100%. All I know is that the vast majority of websites as well as actual fans on various forums etc. discussing Spice and Wolf refer to her as Horo, as well as the other reasons I stated above. I can't imagine it's a super big deal (Vegeta from DBZ's spelling is still debated in some circles) but I just thought I'd point it out since it seemed like a good idea at the time. It's not hardly worth fighting over for me, but Horo is pretty much the name she's stuck with at this point for the majority of fans, and I imagine it won't be an issue 6 months down the road when the majority of people are using all the same one. Until then anime fans trying to look up info on her will just have to deal with the confusion. And you're correct Abunai, sorry, haven't been able to sleep for about 36 hours so my mind isn't right, plus I really didn't think this would be cause for such consternation. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18589 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I know nowhere near enough about translating Japanese to authoritatively comment on the technical aspects, but I must fully agree that it sounds much more like "Horo" in the Japanese dub, and that name sounds far better (and more fitting) in English the much more awkward-sounding "Holo." I guess we have to bow to the official Japanese Website if that is their interpretation (is it based just on that file name, or on other text on the site?), but official sites have been known to be wrong before in their interpretations of how things should properly translate into English.
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Ultenth
Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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Just the file name, all referances to her in terms of actual writing on the website are in Kanji or Hiragana, thus a large reason why there is still debate ongoing. |
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Vortextk
 Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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You sure are balking just for a simple "no, this isn't what the officials say". First of all, I make minimum wage too and that in no way makes me incompetent or incapable of doing a good job. Second, the extra paragraphs stating that the millions of fans of this show will go on with "Horo" while ANN is living in the dark ages is uncalled for. Finally third, 90% of the people that watch this, or probably closer to 100%, know enough about japanese that the l/r thing will not screw them up at all.
I agree with abunai and key in that I usually go with an "r" and Horo does indeed sound better than Holo. Just because a fan sees a fansub, then talks about it with his friends and they see it, doesn't mean the fansubber was correct however. They have to use official sources and unless you can provide something better, it doesn't look like it'll be changing with the information we're provided with so far. |
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Ultenth
Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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Again, not trying to pick a fight or anything, just was looking it up on your site and noticed the spelling, thought I'd mention it since I'm a fan of the series and have discussed it on several forums (Here at ANN, over and A_S, and a few others) and pretty much everyone uses the Horo spelling (as well as to me calling her Holo just sounds weird in my head). If you can't change it due to some restriction or another I understand that perfectly, and have no issue with it.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Speculations. I don't want your bloody speculations. I want facts. I do have a contact at MediaWorks if I really have to ask, but I wouldn't bother this nice mister with this trivial matter just because a forum user from nowhere feels "R" is better than "L."
I'm afraid that there's nothing beside the file name yet. I'll see if I can check out its novel (which has been licensed here) and find for more clues.
Official merchandises and websites at both sides of the Pacific Ocean have screwed up many times before (in fact, the very first English title of Ōkami to Koshinryo that appeared on the official website was NOT Spice and Wolf if you visited the site on its first day; the site replaced that really awkward original (novel) title with Spice and Wolf, the current and more literal translation, a few days later), and most translators are contracted in a case-by-case basis, so don't put too much hope on those either. Baseline: Do and say with the best evidence you've got. Nothing more and nothing less. |
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Ultenth
Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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Seriously you need to chill out. You're being way to rude.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1709 |
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While dormcat has been (IMHO) rude in the past, here he is only being emphatic (e.g., he has not made an ad hominem attack), and I agree with his points.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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That was what I wanted to tell you but didn't write it down. I agree that "Horo" is less confusing for English-speaking folks than "Holo," but a fact is a fact. It was you who baselessly accused the web designer(s) of the official website didn't do his/her job well; that was libelous in my opinion. On the other hand, I have not accused you of anything; I just want you to provide an authoritative evidence, not "because there are more fans and blogs using Horo." With the file name written as such, it can only be overruled by the managing editor at MediaWorks or by Hasekura-sensei him(?)self. Should it really happens, ANN will make appropriate changes and adjustments. Fansites have no place in this issue. |
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