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Buried Treasure - The Cockpit

I've felt that some (certainly not all--remember, it's the revisionists who tend to make the news) Japanese have a misplaced view of the war; shame that they lost it, but the idea that it was a noble cause. I feel it should be the other way around--it was an ignoble cause, but they shouldn't feel ashamed at having lost--it's not like they were cowards or didn't put up a fight.

'm very fond of Leiji Matsumoto, but I was revolted by "Slipstream"'s putting the words in the mouth of a German scientist that whomever uses the atomic bomb "will be remembered as the worst mass murderers in history." Was it supposed to be, um, ironic? It wasn't even remotely factual.

Quote:

It's an interesting idea, that Germany nearly had a nuclear weapon ready to strike,

From what I hear, it's true.

Perhaps so, and no doubt Werner Von Braun often thought so too, but many people don't know his V-2 rockets were also built by concentration camp labor; in fact more people died building them than were killed by the rocket attacks themselves. America used the research of Nazi rocket scientists (and Japanese bioweapons scientists) after the war; you can call that reparations if you like, but at the very least it's highly morally questionable.

It took us longer to beat Japan than Germany, and in the end atomic bombs were necessary to allow surrender to become politically acceptable among the Japanese high command--that terrible weapon became a measure of Japan's terrible will.

Oh yeah. A point on the weapon Nogami pilots in the second episode. The Ohka (Allied codename "Baka" - yes, the Yanks knew enough Japanese to give it that name) was meant to be used to strike Allied warships. I believe the number of Allied ships hit by the weapon is either zero or one.

DuelLadyS wrote:

I've had this title sitting in my Amazon wish list for well over a year now... never once have I seen a copy become available.

This is sad. Never have I read a review of a Buried Treasure that I hadn't seen and wanted to more than this one yet.
If there ever becomes a way to see this, I certainly want to know about it, I would love to see this.

I'm very fond of Leiji Matsumoto, but I was revolted by "Slipstream"'s putting the words in the mouth of a German scientist that whomever uses the atomic bomb "will be remembered as the worst mass murderers in history." Was it supposed to be, um, ironic? It wasn't even remotely factual. At that point in the war, Germany had already killed several times more civilians than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined. If I'm not mistaken, the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp alone murdered several times more people than the two atomic bombs.

You didn't have to be a Nazi or an SS member to be complicit in this. Besides outright extermination, a major purpose of the concentration camp system was forced labor to build munitions for the German war effort. I remember a scene in Arcadia of my Youth where Phantom F. Harlock II and Tochiro witness a failed German missile launch, and there's a sense of regret that they're involved in a war, when they should be shooting for the stars. Perhaps so, and no doubt Werner Von Braun often thought so too, but many people don't know his V-2 rockets were also built by concentration camp labor; in fact more people died building them than were killed by the rocket attacks themselves. America used the research of Nazi rocket scientists (and Japanese bioweapons scientists) after the war; you can call that reparations if you like, but at the very least it's highly morally questionable.

I've felt that some (certainly not all--remember, it's the revisionists who tend to make the news) Japanese have a misplaced view of the war; shame that they lost it, but the idea that it was a noble cause. I feel it should be the other way around--it was an ignoble cause, but they shouldn't feel ashamed at having lost--it's not like they were cowards or didn't put up a fight. It took us longer to beat Japan than Germany, and in the end atomic bombs were necessary to allow surrender to become politically acceptable among the Japanese high command--that terrible weapon became a measure of Japan's terrible will. To paraphrase Ol' Dirty Bastard, I love my Matsumoto, but Matsumoto please.

GATSU wrote:

Quote: It's an interesting idea, that Germany nearly had a nuclear weapon ready to strike, From what I hear, it's true.

It's apparently very debatable, and fairly unlikely, actually.

Carl Horn wrote:

Perhaps so, and no doubt Werner Von Braun often thought so too, but many people don't know his V-2 rockets were also built by concentration camp labor; in fact more people died building them than were killed by the rocket attacks themselves. America used the research of Nazi rocket scientists (and Japanese bioweapons scientists) after the war; you can call that reparations if you like, but at the very least it's highly morally questionable.

See The Nazi Rocketeers: Dreams of Space and Crimes of War by Dennis Piszkiewicz for an account of this. IIRC the Dora sub-camp (which was responsible for building the V-2s) had a mortality rate of over 100 prisoners per day due to the cold, damp, and other poor conditions.

Carl Horn wrote:

It took us longer to beat Japan than Germany, and in the end atomic bombs were necessary to allow surrender to become politically acceptable among the Japanese high command--that terrible weapon became a measure of Japan's terrible will.

It took longer in part because defeating Germany was the priority—Japan was only second on the list. As for Japan's surrender, I highly recommend Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire by Richard B. Frank. It is an excellent overview of the events leading up to Japan's decision to stop the war.

d.yaro wrote:

Oh yeah. A point on the weapon Nogami pilots in the second episode. The Ohka (Allied codename "Baka" - yes, the Yanks knew enough Japanese to give it that name) was meant to be used to strike Allied warships. I believe the number of Allied ships hit by the weapon is either zero or one.

According to Wikipedia, their record was slightly better than that—but not by too much. I count six ships damaged.

Look at that in a different light. Thanks to a few ambitious scientists trespassing on domains they had no knowledge of gave birth a lot of the problems/fears we see today with the Middle East...with regards to who has nuclear capabilities. This is not a new problem either, it goes back to the cold war and the problems faced in China, Afghanistan, and Vietnam. hell even Korea has a rather shady nuclear program. I think that is what he was trying to say.

Also, Adolf Hitler was no where near as bad as Joseph Stalin. It is estimated that during his reign in Soviet Russia, twenty to thirty million people will executed, raped, beaten, starved and tortured by him and his regime.