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Squirtle2000
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 9
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:06 pm
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Hey guys, if you can help me out, what is the best viewing order for this series? It's a bit confusing since it has many OVAs. Some people say to watch all the OVAs first, some say to watch some of the OVAs, then watch the series and then the rest of the OVAs. And is another name for the OVAs, Rurouni Kenshin Reminiscence? It has 4 episodes, should I watch those 4 episodes first then proceed to watch the series (with 95 eps?). I heard there is a total of 6 ova's, so is there still 2 missing?
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:15 pm
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You want to watch the show in this order for it to be in chronological order;
Samurai X: Trust & Betrayel OVA's
Rurouni Kenshin: tv series
Samurai X: The Movie (this is a stand alone movie that isn't tied into the tv series or OVA's but characters in it are introduced in the tv series. So I'd watch as least the first part of the tv series before this movie so you know all the characters)
Samurai X: Reflections OVA
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:28 pm
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If you want to be in chronological that's correct, but let me advise that you probably do not want that for this show. I personally think it's better if you watch it in the order it was made and start with the TV series. The Trust & Betrayal OVA is based off the backstory given in one of the later chapters of the manga and I would suggest watching it after you finish the show.
Also, due to rights issues if you are a dub fan you will be pretty annoyed at this show because the different dubs were all done by different groups. I still highly recommend the OVAs despite this (they are both very good) but I didn't appreciate the movie due to it. The OVAs were done in a much different graphical style than the series (which is more like the manga) so the different voices weren't so jarring.
The viewing order I would suggest would be
Rurouni Kenshin TV series (awesome show, but much more light hearted due to the nature of Kenshin who is at this time a man who has chosen not to continue killing with the sword)
Samurai X: The Movie (remember different dub, if you just hate it you can safely ignore this one as it doesn't matter to the story)
Samurai X: Trust & Betrayal (backstory that you get hints of in the TV series) - this is absolutely excellent in every way and even if you didn't like the movie I can't imagine you not liking this one.
Samurai X: Reflections OVA (the animation version of the ending to RK, please note that the ending is not official in any way and you may prefer the manga "non-ending" to this. I did anyway)
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selenta
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 1774
Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:03 pm
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Everyone whom I've asked about this has always said the same thing, which is exactly what Xanas said. I wouldn't be surprised if Tony popped his head in here, as he advocates the non-strictly-chronological ordering strongly.
Also, a good deal of the episodes can be just plain skipped according to a lot of hardcore RK fans. Apparently the entire third arc of the TV show is fillers, and poorly conceived fillers at that, to the point that they probably aren't even worth watching.
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Zewerr
Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 539
Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:47 pm
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I also agree with Xanas. I made the mistake of watching the OVA's first, not realizing there was TV series that was made for it first. The OVA's were freakin' awesome even without me watching the TV series. But after watching the TV series, I watched the OVA's again, and I liked it 10x better! It's great, because the TV series leave you wondering alot when it's done. It only gives you hints about Kenshin's past, but never explains them. So the OVA's fit in quite nicely afterwards.
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:13 pm
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Yeah, what selenta said about the third arc is entirely true. I didn't hate it as much as some did but it wasn't nearly as good as the beginning.
As a side note, if you like the core part of the RK tv series another great anime I'd recommend would be Trigun, which has similar themes. And if you like Trigun I'd be surprised if you don't like RK. The settings are much different but the core themes and mood of many episodes is similar (Trigun is a bit darker at the end than RK is, but not really any darker than the RK OVAs)
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kizzmequik_74
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 302
Location: QC, Philippines
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:15 pm
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Well, yeah. Chronological order is definitely not recommended. Really, the order that Xanas gave is probably the best order to watch it in (coincidentally, it's also the production order of the shows).
The Trust & Betrayal (Tsuioku Hen) OVA is a wonderful, beautiful piece, but you'd only appreciate it fully if you have an understanding of Kenshin's character from the TV series. It is a bit jarring in terms of the art style, but it really works. Slightly OT: Considering the placement and use of the original manga chapters as a flashback at the beginning of the Jinchuu arc, it would be sensible to watch this at least after the Kyoto arc (I did, anyway).
The movie features characters from the Kyoto arc of the anime, so you can safely watch it immediately after seeing that arc. Considering that the movie itself was released around 1997, a little over a year into the series' run, Japanese fans probably saw it in a similar order. You can still safely avoid it, though, as like most anime movies made and released in the middle of a series' run, it's filler of the highest degree.
The third arc of the TV series (everyone's referring to the things that happened after the Amakusa arc, right?) wasn't THAT bad, but it certainly pales in comparison to the first couple of arcs. Watch the third arc, rip into it with MST3K-style commentary, and laugh. Cruelly.
The second OVA series (Seisohen) is definitely the last thing you should watch: it provides a conclusion to the entire anime. Watch it, then read the Jinchuu arc of the manga, and decide what you prefer. Slightly OT: I'm with Xanas here: the OVA was that little bit TOO melodramatic and dark (needlessly?) for my tastes. The manga ended on a more upbeat and hopeful note. I'm a sucker for happy endings.
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Tony K.
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Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 11384
Location: Frisco, TX
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:30 pm
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An old quote of mine:
Tony K. wrote: | The basic moral of the series is to never give up on life, regardless of what bad things you've done in the past or how bleak your future might look. Cherish the life you have now and enjoy the presence of good friends and do what you can to protect it, should the instance occur. This is portrayed perfectly through the interaction of Kenshin and friends, and especially his battles.
Before you check it out though, there are several things I need to point out.
First, there are multiple titles that go in the following order:
TV series (1-62)
Movie (optional)
Tsuioku-hen OAV ("Samurai X: Trust & Betrayal")
Seisou-hen OAV ("Samurai X: Reflections")
The TV series is actually 95 episodes, but ep. 63+ are all filler, meaning it has nothing to do with the original story. I would recommend you avoid this until you at least get the jist of the real story. In fact, you can ask anyone about the notorious Season 3, and most will say it just doesn't live up to the namesake. Actually, the series got cancelled because of such low ratings, so that should tell you something in itself already.
Season 1 (1-28) contains some filler, but still does a decent job of portraying most of the original material. There's a fair share of action, comedy, and plot events to build up the characters.
Moving into Season 2 (29-62, aka the Kyoto arc), you get a bit of a darker, more action/drama-oriented atmosphere. Every episode sticks to the manga almost panel for panel, and is the highlight of the series, in my opinion.
The movie has nothing to do with the main story either, though it was okay if you liked the series. Some of the references point to the events of Kyoto, so if you watched it without any prior knowledge, it probably wouldn't be as enjoyable. I wouldn't recommend it if you're watching the anime for the first time through because the end of Kyoto actually ties into the first OAV.
Tsuioku-hen is... pivotal. It's actually a prequel that tells the story of how Kenshin turned from the cold-blooded assassin he once was into the happy-pappy rurouni. I do not recommend you watch the OAV before the TV series. The problem with that is the transition.
Namely, the TV series is a fairly light-hearted and fun viewing. You get some slapstick humor, laughing moments, and that sort of thing. The OAV is the polar opposite; very dark, violent, and almost depressing. If you watch to the end of Kyoto, Tsuioku-hen will tie into a certain lingering plotline. And that transition from a lighter to a darker atmoshpere, is what will make it so much more enjoyable. A lot of people that saw Tsuioku-hen first, ended up not liking the series because of the reverse transition (darker to lighter feel), and it's a real shame. TRUST ME, you will not be dissappointed if you follow the order I suggested.
Seisou-hen, on the other hand, is not as good. For the longest time, I never made the effort to read much manga. But after hearing so many things about what actually happened after Kyoto, I had to find out. Needless to say, Seisou-hen is a very poor representation of it. In addition to being a prequel, Tsuioku-hen is actually a flashback that was to lead up to the final arc of the franchise, Jinchuu.
Unfortunately, what was written and illustrated into about 10 volumes of greatness ended up being only 4 good OAV episodes (Tsuioku-hen) and 2 crammed episodes of butchered misrepresnation (Seisou-hen). While the production qualities are excellent, the story is just horribly spliced, putting 8 volumes of manga into an hour of crap that didn't even tell it correctly. Even the creator of the franchise disowned it.
If at all possible, I highly recommend you check out the manga after the anime, at least for the full effect of the Jinchuu arc. But for now, I can say you'll like the anime if you follow my suggestions for viewing (TV series through ep. 62, then Tsuioku-hen).
By the way, I really dislike the dub. Being my favorite anime, I feel it fails in capturing the essence of all the characters and expressing the subtlties that make the dialogue and interacton so enjoyable. I could argue the faults forever from voice inflection to pronunciations, but I've typed enough as it is. |
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:39 pm
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Well since we have the sub/dub conversation, I'll say that as a general "dub fan" I like the dub of the series and the OVA, but hated the dub of the movie.
I think Kenshin's VA in the series was the best, I still think he's awesome regardless of what anyone says. Hajime Saito also has an awesome VA. You'll find both Kenshin & Saito's VAs in a lot of other english dubs and I can't imagine either of them being hated.
Those are probably the only two which I'd defend a great deal, though I don't think any of the other VA's in the TV series dub were outright horrible. I think the TV series had the best dub of any of the RK stuff. The weak point on RK TV's dub would be that it uses the same people for multiple minor characters, but I personally don't get very annoyed at that. Another one that will annoy some people is that some of the minor characters have southern accents. I know that's a big nuisance for other people that also doesn't bother me.
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rainbowcourage
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 1216
Location: what is commonly known as "hell week"
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:50 pm
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I wouldn't even bother with the OAV unless you have a burning desire to see everything ever made in the universe of kenshin. it was awful, and my beloved english VAs were not even there
Tony K. wrote: | By the way, I really dislike the dub. Being my favorite anime, I feel it fails in capturing the essence of all the characters and expressing the subtlties that make the dialogue and interacton so enjoyable. I could argue the faults forever from voice inflection to pronunciations, but I've typed enough as it is. |
oh Tony. You had to include this in a thread about order
Now, to be fair, I've only seen about half of season 2 with subs (and I don't speak Japanese, so pronunciation doesn't bother my unpolished ears unless it's blatant) but how can you prefer the Japanese VA to Richard Hayworth???? She doesn't even SOUND like a man, and makes Kenshin ten times girlier than he already is.
**note: figured since the thread was already hijacked and the question of viewing answered almost unanimously, this post was okay. but if the mods delete my post, I won't cry.
happy news is that I finally ordered the RK Jincuu arc in manga and will be reading the ending!! this is my first manga ever!!
okay, I'm cutting MYSELF off.
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Aromatic Grass
Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:28 pm
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rainbowcourage wrote: | I wouldn't even bother with the OAV unless you have a burning desire to see everything ever made in the universe of kenshin. it was awful, and my beloved english VAs were not even there |
You should probably mention which of the OAVs you're talking about, and I'm assuming it's Reflection? Trust & Betrayal (Tsuioku-hen as Tony would prefer ) is actually really good, imo.
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Squirtle2000
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 9
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:06 am
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Oh ok, I guess I will watch the OVAs afterwards. So does Samurai X trust and betrayal have 4 episodes, same thing as reminiscence right?
And for the dubs, which change voices, is it for japanese or english?
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Randall Miyashiro
Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 2451
Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:25 am
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I will agree in the viewing order presented by many above. In regards to season 3 I wrote this as a reply to a few posters who were bashing season 3 for it's lack of action:
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My favorite episodes are from the third season. I should state from the start that I'm not into most shonen manga, and really don't like Dragon Ball, Naruto, One Piece, Inuyasha, Hokuto no Ken, etc. The much beloved season two of Kenshin really is the most shonen of the three. The idea that the Kyoto arc is based around a boss and his mini bosses who the main characters has to fight really is a bit too much like so many other shonen titles. [Having Kenshin fight to the brink of death only to start another fight is so shonen] The episodes dedicated to the "ultimate fighting technique" also bothers me, especially since Sanosuke has one of these too.
Bearing this in mind I greeted the Meiji episodes with open arms. To me Kenshin is about the ending of old Japan, and the start of the modern era. This theme is illustrated in the third season with the idea of Christianity being introduced into Japan. I also love Sanosuke's story in the Christian arc, especially since he took such a back seat in Kyoto. Having Kenshin lose his sight helped bring the others to the foreground, and illustrated how Kenshin isn't as invulnerable as in the Kyoto arc. The Shougo and Sayo backstory episode is very touching. The Black Knights arc also contrasts Japan with the Western world. It illustrates how Japan thought they were so advanced, while science was advancing in other countries. This arc placed Yahiko into the foreground, and placed him in his most mature light. It's funny when Yahiko and Sanosuke can't even pronounce the word "science" when Yutaro explains it to them. In both arcs there is a nice commentary of a country that is unwiiling to embrace a new global community. I love how in the end of the Christian arc it is commented how he West would frown upon the slaughter of Christians, yet they are still deported.
My favorite stand alone episodes are from the Meiji season. The ring episode (title is a spoiler) is one of my favorites. Once again we start to see how Western traditions are creeping into Japan. We also see lots of Tae, an underused character who I always enjoyed, up to no good. My all time favorite episode would have to be the Misao/Aoshi episode. The scene where Aoshi is reminded of a young Misao is particularly moving. The young artist episode is another that I really enjoy. Once again we see the theme of a changing Japan revisited as the artists final painting is Picasso-esque.
I will agree that the third season lacks "intense build up to amazing combats with incredible characters." and has the least amount "good fights" but that is why I find it my favorite.
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A lot of time seem to be wasted in slow and boring scenes, and there definitely was a lack of "hardcore" fighting. The conflicts weren't resolved from fighting, but rather with random causes and effects, and that's just boring. |
This is so true. The third season is more political, and the conflicts are not resolved with who can draw thier sword quickest. The Christian arc ends with Kenshin using his negotiation powers with Shougo's lot, and the (Portuguese?) embassy resolving the conflict. The Black Knights arc ends with the much treasured plant being destroyed and nobody benefiting, when both parties could have got a miracle cure if they worked together. I love these endings since they don't remind me of so many fight of the week series.
I will however admit that the Feng Shui episodes are really dull. |
Keep in mind this comes from a non-Kenshin fan's perspective, and probably will not apply to those who are fans of the genre/series. I find the third season of Kenshin amongst the best anime based off of a Jump manga, but then again I will mention once more I really don't like Jump manga.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:06 am
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Call me a nit picky person then but I always try to watch things in chronological order. I'm dumb and slow and get confused easily so if I don't watch it chronologically I feel like I'm missing something. though I will agree the Meji Era arc, or third arc in the tv series, is hardly worth watching. The movie wasn't that great either, nor Reflections for that matter. The ending to Reflections was the only truly good part about it because of how moving and emotional it is.
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SalarymanJoe
Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 468
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:57 am
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Randall Miyashiro wrote: | I will agree in the viewing order presented by many above. In regards to season 3 I wrote this as a reply to a few posters who were bashing season 3 for it's lack of action:
[snip]
Keep in mind this comes from a non-Kenshin fan's perspective, and probably will not apply to those who are fans of the genre/series. I find the third season of Kenshin amongst the best anime based off of a Jump manga, but then again I will mention once more I really don't like Jump manga. |
As a Kenshin fan myself, and it being one of my favorite series of all time, I agree with you 100%. The post-Kyoto story arcs get bashed a lot for not being the same but each one has its own unique charm or faults. I thought that the Shimabara-hen ("Christian Arc") is just about as good as Kyoto-hen, even though it's much shorter and more non-canon. Fuji TV really had some of their best staff writers working on that one, I felt, especially when compared with later arcs like Yuutaro-hen and Fusui-hen.
As far as the order goes, I'm very big on release order and very much against chronological order. Stylistically, the OAVs are like night and day from the TV series and movie because they represent different times in Kenshin's life. I think the series has a much bigger impact if viewed in the release order because only a taste of Himura during Bakumatsu is given, but his more light-hearted Meiji side is repeated more often, giving one the impression that Kenshin is, overall, happy (or, he grows into happiness). Following it with the short burst that is Tsuioku-hen ("Trust and Betrayal"), shows a very quick snapshot of where he came from. If one watched it chronologically, I'm afraid that the bulk of happier material would outweigh the darker material of Tsuioku-hen. Not to mention, there are supporting characters, like Saito, Okita, and Shishio who appear with little to no introduction and their impact isn't felt as much as is someone who is already familiar with the TV series (you know, hearing the phrase "moto sanbantai kumicho, Saitou Hajime!" over and over again. ).
If you're new to Kenshin, I recommend the release-order that Tony K mentioned above. I would say that the core of the material surrounds the TV series through the end of Kyoto-hen and the first OAV set, Tsuioku-hen. The movie, Ishinshishi he no Requiem, is a good movie but still very side-story-ish. I also recommend taking some time to check out the last third of the TV series. As I said earlier, some of those arcs have their own unique charm or faults and I felt some of the other, single filler episodes, were absolute gold. Good for a rental and a once-through to be entertained lightly.
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