Forum - View topicAnswerman - Is It Now "Cool" To Be An Anime Fan?
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SillyPerson
 Posts: 39 Location: Vatican City |
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I always thought anime was cool ever since the first time I saw it. It was new to me, it was different, it was interesting, it was a little exotic, but it was translated to English and was entertaining. The first anime I saw that I remember enjoying a lot was Trigun, the other anime I saw early on I also enjoyed too but it was not as memorable and I would not be able to remember what the names of any of those shows were, it was in the anime club in college which I visited a few times when I was a freshman, years ago.
Actually I got kinda bored with that anime club since only one of the shows it had, Trigun, really interested me, and for a couple years I stopped being interested in anime. It wasn’t until I started seeing anime on the Cartoon Network Adult Swim block, after shows like Aqua Teen Hunger Force that were definitely NOT anime, that I REALLY got into liking it, for instance Inuyasha became the second show I really got into after Trigun. And then when Bleach appeared on TV I REALLY liked Bleach and by then I was permanently addicted to anime and interested in all kinds of it. Originally I only ever watched anime late at night on the Cartoon Network and it was kind of a guilty pleasure and I did not really talk about it with other people, but eventually I got sick of them messing around with the schedule and not being able to finish watching all the episodes of a show so I switched to watching anime online. I think Netflix popularizing more anime is great and Kim Kardashian or any other celebrity, even celebrities I dislike, if they like anime, good for them, that is something I agree with them on. Some people don’t like anime, that is fine too, originally I didn’t like it THAT much and it took me a couple years before I REALLY got interested in it. But people shouldn’t be judgmental about it. Being a fan of anime is not that different from being a fan of foreign films from Europe that get shown at art movie theaters instead of regular movie theaters, or of liking somewhat obscure foods that you might or might not be able to find in the international foods aisle of a typical grocery store, or being into K-Pop bands besides just that one song Gagnam Style, or being into Hong Kong kung fu movies, or being into rap music despite being of a non-black ethnicity (which used to be very non-mainstream back in the day). I wouldn’t judge people for any of those things. And sure anime fans might be aggressive in arguing about things or trying to get other people to watch anime, this has happened to me too, but personally I also get this way about other things I am a fan of, not just anime. Like my cousin is a movie director and everyone I know has to see her movies, I literally make them watch her movies, I am a fan of my cousin’s films, and no she is not an anime director, she directs live-action movies and lives in, where else, Los Angeles. If I like music I play it for other people and I am particularly passionate about how awesome the Wu Tang Clan is. I recently got a friend of mine to watch the movie Fight Club after telling him how much I liked it. I don’t see much difference between that kind of behavior and aggressive behavior of anime fans. Yeah, OK, maybe I might be showing (age-appropriate, non-controversial) anime to my niece from a young age in order to try and get her hooked on it despite my sister (her mother) not really approving, but so what? My dad really likes opera and he made me listen to opera from a young age and I hated it. Arguably I would say being interested in the opera is more of a niche interest and less mainstream than being interested in anime nowadays. We don’t hear too many celebrities saying what big fans of The Magic Flute by Mozart they are. If someone tried to go around in high school saying how awesome they thought opera and classical music was, I bet they would get made fun of more than an anime fan. And yet opera and classical music is part of the heritage of Western civilization and part of the inspiration behind modern-day music and movies. It just seems so weird and not in a good way but an annoying way, the way they sound grates on the ears, it does not translate well into English, the plots are too simplistic... many of the same criticisms I have of opera are ones people who dislike anime have of anime! Also, if something becomes totally mainstream, by definition it is not cool anymore, once something is accepted by a majority of the population including all the late adopters and closed-minded people who rarely accept anything new unless every single person around them has already accepted it for years, well by that point, something entirely ceases to be cool. Being rather a niche interest is literally the exact thing that makes anime and various other niche interests cool. I would say that anime is LESS cool in Japan than it is in the United States because it originated in Japan and is much more ubiquitous there and it is so overexposed there, it totally loses the coolness factor with most of Japanese society. Saying you are into anime, if you are a Japanese person, would be like saying you are into The Simpsons, if you are an American. YAWN... nobody cares, that is the response you would get from pretty much anyone, you would find hardly anyone going, oh cool I am into anime too, what a coincidence, these are my favorite anime, what are yours? But here in the United States and other countries anime has much more of a coolness factor than in its original country, in a way that I imagine rather confuses Japanese people and makes them think that foreigners are a bunch of weirdos. Whereas in the rest of the world it is Japanese people who have the image of being weirdos, largely because of anime and manga helping make them look strange to the rest of us. I guess for the same reason Japanese people often have misconceptions about the United States being extremely violent and full of nonstop crime, race riots, etc. Our Hollywood action movies full of violence and crime certainly don’t help to improve the image of our country, they just reinforce that stereotype of the United States. Yet in Japan, American things are considered cool by a lot of people. So yeah, anime is cool, at least in the United States, but it is in danger of becoming too mainstream, if too many celebrities and famous people end up liking it it will cease to be cool. Kim Kardashian might be part of a tipping point of too many people liking anime to the point where it isn’t cool anymore and is just considered mainstream and therefore boring. But the more TV channels show anime, the better it is for us anime fans, so maybe it is better if anime isn’t cool anymore and does just become totally mainstream like American cartoons are already, since that would give us more opportunities to watch it and more of it would get officially translated and released, with a higher percentage getting dubbed like things were prior to the anime crash of 2008 that happened as part of the more widespread economic collapse that year. Anyway, maybe anime SHOULDN’T be cool, maybe our goal should be to get it so mainstream that people do not really care about it very much anymore. But then of course this also means getting other things like visual novels to be mainstream and popular in America too, for things to really be successful, or else when people see anime like the various Fate/stay night or Fate/something else anime or Steins;Gate or Robotics;Notes or Semi;Colon or CLANNAD or countless other anime that are based on visual novels, there will be no reference point for what a visual novel is or any of that, at least manga is generally understood because here in America we have comic books which are similar. But visual novels, we do not really have too much of that here, I think that is what we need to do, instead of popularizing anime, popularize visual novels, they are far more niche than anime is, a lot more Americans have seen Fate or Steins;Gate or CLANNAD anime than played any of those visual novels. Which is a shame because apparently the Tsukihime visual novel is much better than the Lunar Legend Tsukihime anime from what I have heard, and there are probably many other cases of this, and I would like to get my hands on the Tsukihime visual novel and play it to see for myself, but I have never actually played a visual novel and do not know how to go about doing it. Well I could look it up but it is not a top priority for me, I am not THAT obsessed, but if it were a very easy thing to do, I would do it, the main barrier for me is laziness. |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4446 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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that there is the really BIG change cause like 10 years ago , viewers were watching them on fansub websites like dattbayo and others. even FAKKU was at one time a fansub group before they went legit.
and i wouldn't call that a good thing. and after how he completely and predictably annihilated the live action version of KITE which was even 10 TIMES WORSE than ScarJo's GITS abomination or the even worst DB Evolution , he shouldn't even go near that genre. at least he didn't tried to GOD FORBID doing one for mezzo forte. brrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Or worse! the FBI uses his quip to bust him for the same thing that brought down the careers of ex DxD's VA scott freeman and kenshin's author! and it will all be no thanks due to a quip that he said years ago while IN PUBLIC! Last edited by jr240483 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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micah007
Posts: 205 |
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It is "cool" in the sense that the general/mainstream population is far more accepting these days and at the same time general preconceptions of anime (that are usually negative) are being challenged with a larger spotlight thanks to the information age we live in. However now we are seeing a clash of traditional fans vs new fans, I know for a FACT plenty if not most anime fans have very vivid memories of abuse for even hinting that we liked anything like this and those memories are hard to let go. I don't necessarily agree with gatekeeping but I can understand several of the arguments for it.
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6267 |
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I shouldn't have to point out your argument is contradictory you can't say that Japanese anime is and should be for the Japanese while ignoring the fact anime has a foothold in the North America, Europe, and Asia that and the fact that most anime are not exclusively designed in such a way that it's going to be distinctly Japanese (Cowboy Bebop ring a bell)?
Yeah just don't complain when it leads to more stuff like Neo Yokio and complaints about how the people who made this don't get anime at all or how they should stop trying to be like it. Which I believe was also something the 2011 Thundercats series got hit with.
....Yeah because that objectively is much worse than wondering why this anime or manga you like isn't getting licensed in your country or of it was why it stopped getting released or why the videogames based off it only has a subtitled release. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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I wouldn't say knowning a few celebrities like anime is enough to make it mainstream.
They're still a minority within show business and, more likely than not, will remain as such. If there is any chance for anime to become mainstream for real, that'll still take decades. |
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DerekL1963
 Subscriber Posts: 1120 Location: Puget Sound |
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Not to mention that "anime becoming mainstream" requires "the mainstream to watch and continue watching anime". I can't see the mainstream pivoting away from their current media interests in significant numbers for any significant period of time - all on the strength of a celebrity tweet. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6900 Location: Kazune City |
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Still, it'd be prudent not to assume that "I'm into anime!" will be met with acceptance instead of mockery/disdain, whether you're in Japan or elsewhere. |
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Emma Iveli
Posts: 679 Location: Hobo with internet |
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When I growing up I was always interested in whenever something mainstream I liked made a reference to anime. As I got older I was "Meh" about it... expect for that one "Treehouse of Horror" with the anime Simpsons partially because you never see One Piece references in western pop culture, partially because I have a fanfic where Bart is Naruto's reincarnation.
I don't care if anime is considered cool, people I know think it's cool I like it. Side note: I noticed a mistake in the article. You didn't link Avril Lavigne to her encyclopedia page, person#115154 It has only one credit (One Piece Film Z) but come on, she still has a page. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Stay away from discussions about the Naruto video games if you want to keep it that way. They're still going rather strong there. Makes me think of a vendor at Anime Expo in...2016, I think, who were distinctly on the subs side and were selling potshot merchandise. It never went anywhere, as I didn't see anyone interested in their stuff or anyone wearing their shirts or hats the entire convention. They were gone the following year.
Hmm, is that unusual? I've been in a few fandoms that are actively trying to get more people to become fans. Sometimes, it's because the fans have become an endangered species. Sometimes, it's because the industry is dying and they need more people buying stuff to sustain it. Sometimes, it's because they have a terrible public image (way worse than the normal "obsessed dorky fan" stereotype) and are trying to improve it. In most of these cases though, they are fans of things that have previously been in the mainstream or just below the mainstream but had fallen out of it and into obscurity. The pinball fandom, in particular, has had a rather extended campaign from the fans to try to gather more people. (Pinball machines are very expensive, so these people tend to be very rich, and some of them have thrown literally millions of dollars into programs to "teach" pinball to people.) I asked about why they want pinball to be more popular on Tilt Forums. Seems some of them didn't really think about that and just figured it was the normal thing for fans to do, but the most common answer was that the more popular pinball is, the easier they can find a machine in public because they're more likely to be profitable in public. The second most common answer was so it'd be easier to socialize offline. I think that second one there is important too, because whether intentional or not, pinball had become an offline social activity, which is not feasible if its popularity falls below a certain point. Anime, by contrast, is a mostly solitary activity (though it can also be offline social if it develops a culture of group viewings and discussions the way some forms of film have become). And I thought about your impressions too. More often than not, I find myself in fandoms (and academia if you count that--I know some archaeologists were frustrated in similar ways when that recent discovery of Mayan ruins via lidar made the news and was quickly forgotten) that desperately want to be more popular and more acknowledged, so I think we're coming from some pretty different directions here. |
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DerekL1963
Subscriber Posts: 1120 Location: Puget Sound |
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"Trying to get more fans" and "trying to gain mainstream acceptance" are not the same thing. The first is, well, just having more people in the fandom. The second is not having people look at you with varying degrees of skepticism and suspicion when you declare yourself a member of that fandom. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5922 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Considering how ANN reviewers and many posters view anime negatively for reasons 'other' than story, plot, and animation; the last thing I would want is anime to be mainstream. The whole purpose of watching anime is because it was different than what is offered in the West.
In the Eighties I watched "Fight! Iczer One". It had two female leads, an almost all female cast, demon monsters, alien monsters, sci-fi and horror story all in one, pathos, nudity, and mechs. That was something you weren't going to see on American TV. If it was reviewed today it would be ripped apart over western moral and culture values. Which was the whole point of watching anime. Nowadays, everyone wants anime to be sanitized to be in line with western moral and culture values. So, NO, to mainstream acceptance. As for coolness, well, mainstream acceptance would mean anime is no longer cool. Coolness is a transient state that exists before mainstream acceptance. Once something is accepted by a culture, it loses its coolness factor. |
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fuuma_monou
 Posts: 1846 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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Iczer One was an OVA series. IIRC the Japanese TV broadcast of the HD remaster had to be heavily censored because of all the nudity. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
 Subscriber Posts: 3019 |
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The quality of anime we get in the west has only improved since western companies stopped exclusive marketing it to this guy. 
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5922 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Wouldn’t doubt that. I blind bought the Laser Disc compilation in Hawaii, forgot how much I paid for it.
I agree with you. I think the last couple of years have been the best time to be an anime fan, so much stuff for everyone. Hopefully it keeps on going. The problem is during those same couple of years, some anime fans and reviewers are increasing bringing in western morality and cultural values to the argument. So besides having a normal review, anime is judged also on whether it meets western cultural benchmarks. Nothing sets off a flashpoint more than bringing in morality and cultural values. So instead, of solely debating the merits of anime shows based on their works, we are now have incendiary commentary based on western mores and values. So some reviews and fan commentary start sounding like the Salem Witch Trials or McCarthyism. Take your pick. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1796 Location: South America |
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I personally would prefer for manga/anime to be more underground. Now it is in a situation where most people heard of it but have very ignorant notions about it. I would rather prefer that nobody heard of it and hence to not develop ignorant preconceptions about it.
For instance, 3 years ago I travelled with a coworker and he started laughing maniacally because I had brough some manga with me and he started teasing me that I was a kid and then he said seriously that it was really absurd for an adult like me to be seriously interested in it. So I had to educate him on the popularity of manga in Japan and showed that manga magazines like Big Comic Original are ready mainly by people over the age of 30. But it's a really frustrating: why can't people be aware of Japanese visual culture. Like, before I became a hardcore fan about 6 years ago I always was well aware of the fact it is a big thing. If it were perfectly underground then anime would be like Iranian cinema that nobody that is "normal" ever heard about but then there is no stigma involved in being into it. While if anime was perfectly mainstream like Hollywood movies then it also wouldnt suffer from ignorant stigma. Now it is in an uncomfortable middle point where it is kinda of known but not mainstream enough so people have a balanced notion of it. |
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