Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Are Some Anime Fans So Cynical?
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Chrono1000
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2509 Location: Germany |
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@Jose Cruz What has fan-fiction to do with the state of the industry? Especially if i consider that publishing it for pennies on the dollar is the only way many of these "creators" will ever get their name on anything, outside of an assistant credit in a tankōbon release. Did i accidentally figure out where that female majority came from?
 Lol!
Come back with numbers that connect to the way Jump and co. are published and Tōei and co. are run. Long story short, you won´t find a majority of women, or sometimes any women, in the executive positions of major (entertainment) companies and these people run industries. That´s why the manhunt on Harvey Weinstein is such a year defining topic. He likely never stepped on the set of LofR but is ultimately the one who made the financial side possible. Comparable female executives didn´t exist on that level till Kathleen Kennedy came along and working under Spielberg ultimately put her there. The film industry further has a majority of women working the casting process for example. A glass ceiling is there in other important branches but that´s why Patty Jenkins got on the Times shortlist for Man of the Year in 2017. The Times they are a changin. Not in Japan though, not any time soon. Sadly. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1789 Location: South America |
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I think that the main difference between manga/anime and western popular narratives is that manga is much more varied and diverse. Hollywood movies and mainstream TV shows are all the same formula made to appeal to the lowest common denominator. While anime/manga is very diverse. That's a consequence of it appealing to more niche audiences, since the cost of production is much lower (a single episode of Breaking Bad cost about the same as three 13 episode shows) while the pilot episode of Voyager cost 500 times the cost of an episode of EVA. @residentgrigo, in anime/manga fanfiction has everything to do with the state of the industry. Most manga/anime authors begin as doujinshi authors and then move on to become professionals. And many aesthetic innovations in the field were first developed in doujinshi. For example, what western anime fans call "moe" is a development that originated in 80's comiket when doujinshi authors began to adapt the aesthetics of shoujo manga into manga aimed at adult fans. After a while commercial manga started to adopt this innovation and TV anime came to it with Kokoro Library and Azumanga Daioh in 2001-2002. A lot of anime today are directly adapted from fanfiction such as Log Horizon and Knights and Magic. Also in manga there are many women authors which is more rare in other media industries. For example, Full Metal Alchemist, the first ranked anime in MAL, is from a manga written by a woman. And Miyazaki was inspired by his female employees when he created Kiki's Delivery Service. Manga/anime is not only feminine from the supply side but from the demand side the fact is also that the majority of manga readers in Japan are women. And so the industry must cater to their tastes. Also, I don't know why you are obsessed with industry executives. Their role is purely technical: they just connect the artists with the public. Essentially, I think that they do not really have any real influence the aesthetics of the art that is created: they provide what the market thinks is good and in manga the majority of the market is female. This strong feminine presence in manga/anime is one of the reasons why this world is so varied. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Maybe that is linked to the raise of the male herbivore in japan. While in the past many young males looked up to the macho archetype, younger generations goals have shifted and anime has adapted to that. |
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Chrono1000
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ScottWired
Posts: 5 |
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Man I hate the second kind of cynicism. Especially when it's someone complaining about cliches that do indeed exist but they haven't personally witnessed in an anime yet
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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As far as I can tell Patty Jenkin's big claim is she directed Wonder Woman... so basically because she made a successful movie? Japan has had huge women creators dating back the 60s. Hasegawa, Takeuchi, Takahashi, CLAMP, Arakawa, etc. Patty Jenkins didn't even create Wonder Woman, Charles Moulton did. This is some major historical revisionism at work here.. especially considering this is the country which dominates the female market, and actually has a whole demographic for girls like shoujo and josei |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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Think they were very much rubbing it in Donald Trump's face after making the mistake of giving it to him last year. And the recent junior-high "Yeah, they were going to give it to me again this year, but I told 'em I didn't feel like it" didn't exactly help the decision-making process either. As for The Success of Patty Jenkins, you could draw a gender line between the people who thinks she "represents the new rise of the female director", and those who thought she only represented "the only sane director who made a GOOD Warner/DC comic book movie, like an actual director would have". |
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TheAnimeRevolutionizer
 Posts: 329 |
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Ah, business and the corporate world. There's something that gets me cynical as it is. And we don't even need to get into gender roles and such for that. Hell, I'd advise for women to stay the hell away from it for how greedy and corrupt it is nowadays. Sure would be nice to have some virtuous folk out there but rich doesn't always means good.
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13586 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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kThe critics of fan subs (namely, Greg Ayres) are 1 set of critics I occasionally like to call out.
On FB/Twitter, there have been a number of times I blogged about or even PM a dub VA something to the effect of
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TheAnimeRevolutionizer
Posts: 329 |
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"He who has the gold makes the rules". In the terms of someone I listen for their podcasts, the USA Copyright System is an outright broken system whose net worth is second only to the Defense/Military Industrial Complex industry. And as I can tell, clearly not even the Japanese anime and manga import market is immune to its effects. Should the US Copyright system exist? Yes, it should. Am I always in favor for it? No. I'm not. Even with the rise of arresting scanslators and scanslations, anime and manga will and will always be first and foremost a Japanese industry. Even as an artist, that is where all of the anime and manga in the world comes from, this day and time. Not everything is going to be imported and not everything is going to be picked up. Even with the rise of simulcasts and simultaneous releases, there will always be the crowd who will want the split second of seeing it first from Japan, even if it means going underground. And in honesty, other nations that aren't Europe, first world Asia and the American continents are not so lucky. There's a missing margin of profit right there. I like dubbers. I like ADV companies and the anime importers. But the fact remains that they, in some way, and some form, will always be beat. Business has its gains and its losses. Unless you have the cash to invest to make a system that ensures little loss (and that is a pretty penny), you have to focus on the gains. I can only explain anime dubbing and localization these days in a metaphor like this: It's like having a restaurant that promises fresh from the bounty dishes, and not from the farm. So many things can go right, or wrong with this venture. You'll either have a bad time not catching anything, someone will steal your intended bounties before you, or the customers will be very impatient and will leave before you get things done. You'll only be able to promise something that is the only thing available, and that will also alienate or draw people in depending on what that thing is. And again, I use this so often that it's not even funny or remarkable to hear anymore, but either original content is inspired and produced or the industry keeps on going until Japan isn't "cool" to be profitable anymore. Tying back into the topic of copyright, thankfully the world of Japanese anime and manga is still prolific, prosperous, and profitable. Of course, I'll always say this too: scanslations and the forces behind them will always exist. There will always will be a language barrier where certain scripts will want to be heard in a different translation to get a better grasp of the plot, the work's spirit, and the emotional direction that series is presenting. There will always be censorship where fans will want to overcome and see the true work that is presented. There will always will be light novels and drama CDs and radio shows and other side materials that will not ever see translation alongside its main work. There will always will be places where anime is not a common thing to buy and see in the world, and where the internet is the only place to find it. And last but not least, "Even Rome fell". It's not even anytime soon or in the near future, but for what it is, there will probably be a time where anime localization will collapse. At that time, we'll probably go just like the early pioneers of anime exposition, or be forced to go underground to get our entertainment. Sure, it will be easier to reestablish ADVs and anime localization centered companies, but again, the question will be asked: So how much will you guys make? |
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Kadmos1
Posts: 13586 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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@TheAnimeRevolutionizer: my point was that if we are going to deem scanlations, fansubs, and the like as theft or something like, we shouldn't stop there. We should also call out retroactive copyright extensions*, copyright restorations, and the TM of the public domain. If you are going to call out theft, include the decimation of the public domain.
*ironic how the House of Mouse had a lot of their empire using public domain stories, but they refuse to let many of their adaptations, or at least the initial theatricals versions of them, enter the public domain. |
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Spawn29
Posts: 551 |
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I would not go that far. Sure you had garbage like Judge, Dark Cat, Bounty Dog, Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei and Kimera, but you had some really good ones like Devilman, The Guyver, Cyber City Oedo 808, Maryuu Senki, and several others. Even the bad ones like M.D Geist are at least watchable for the fun shock factor that they have. Not to mention newer titles are tame compare to the Grindhouse type of OVAs and Films that we used to get. Blood C and Corpse Party are the closest thing with a similar level of violence in this day of age. |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9922 Location: Virginia |
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@Kadmos1
The difference is that scanlations and fansubs are under current law, illegal. The stuff that bothers you is legal under the law as currently written. If you don't like current law, you can work to get it changed (good luck with that). However, simply ignoring any law you don't like is not an effective means of change. |
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TheAnimeRevolutionizer
Posts: 329 |
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@Kadmos1 And importantly.... It's about where the money is. We'll get back to this topic in a bit. Decimation of the public domain is a troublesome thing, but at the same time, copyright exists as a way for original owners and their descendants/inheritors to gain off of it legitimately. It's a two way street, and it can be a good and bad thing. About where the money is, if something got exponentially popular and everyone wanted it, that creates a market/demand for it. The creator should get money off of it, because honestly, windows of opportunity aren't as common as people would think in business. There's a time frame for profit, and believe me, that's what is aimed for to be maxed when it comes. That's the whole thing about copyright; it's the right over your work to let people do whatever action with it as per your judgement. Sadly, most of the time it's portrayed with such cold and calculated litigation that it seems very, very systematic and robotic at times. (sorry if I seem patronizing btw) Granted, most of the time it's not usually the creator who has the say over the copyright, and this is where we get down and dirty. When you contract with a company, it's very likely that your work will be not just your signature work, but also that of the company within the signed contract of employment and future affairs. Depending on how that career goes, you'll have the ride of your life or will experience the time honored reoccurrence of being screwed out of your very own life's work. When the latter happens, it's all apart of the onion life from there on out, peeling one layer at a time and crying all the way. So if it ever came to interest in goods and series with copyrights, chances are stuff that's about a few years or two in circulation aren't going to cause major legal action unless it's that popular and that net worth of a property, and are still on going and/or have seen resurgent interest to garner profit. Stuff like that is way over a creator's/company's head at that point because keeping track of it is another department in itself. Stuff that's out right now? That's the 100 yard dash gauntlet across the minefield right there. Of course, I can keep digging... and reach the depth of where the skeletons are. If you're thinking of the shrinking of the public domain, that's because the societal issue of the fear of economic collapse and problems regarding encouraging the creative and artistic in society. There's a lot of charnel and cadaver with that, and there are strong ties to why the copyright industry is very, very trigger happy these days. |
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