Forum - View topicFruits Basket (see 2nd post for thread info)
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aya_honda
 Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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Glad to be of service. I too didn't like much this character but this volume definetly opened my eyes. I think that at the same time Rin is one of the most human characters, and towards the end of the manga we understand much more her pains and ideas. I'll wait till we get there. 
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I don't understand how spoiler[some parents can be as heartless as they can, especially in the case of Rin, her mother can't complain that much because she can embrace her. But these parents decided that they were being "good" parents and that their daughter went out and ruined everything for them. The opening of Rin's story, which will be developed in later volumes, is a complex and moving story, with her love for Haru, her abusive/self pitying parents, and her "incident" that has made her what she is.]
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Hello all! (God, I'm so freaking behind in commenting in this thread. Kill me now.)
You know, I really don't like Hiro. I don't think I ever will. But dang if he's not extremely insightful. It's like he can read everyone he meets like a paperback dime novel. He's kind of creepy. The way he knew, just by the way Rin told him to go back to his mom, exactly what Rin was thinking about family and the burden she'd shouldered, it was impressive. Also, as has been said, Rin's got some of the spoiler[worst parents of all the Sohmas. At first, when her flashback starts, you start to go, "wow, her family was so good." Except that doesn't make sense because just a few panels before, she was freaking out about her parents punishing her for being sick. To think that all it took to destroy the fairy tale of her parents loving her was a child's innocent question], it really makes you feel for Rin. The part with Haru spoiler[defending her in the hospital room, ordering her mother to apologize, is so moving]. He's been through a small bit of what Rin has dealt with and he knows it's not her fault she's suffering. Their relationship is actually very beautiful. Rin spoiler[thinks her emotions are something that could hurt Haru, she thinks of herself as a curse no less terrible than the one all the Zodiac members are inflicted with. Her choice to sacrifice everything she holds dear, her relationship with Haru, just for a chance to break the curse says more than anything that Rin is actually a very good person.] I think Rin's actually one of the kindest people in Fruits Basket. That may sound kind of crazy. Yet, if you think about it, it's true. All of her actions are spoiler[based on a desire to protect the people around her from herself. The reason she's treats Tohru so badly initially is because she LIKES Tohru. Rin knows Tohru's the kind of person who, like Haru, would accept her and comfort her. She desperately wants to let Tohru do that but she believes that she can only bring pain to people who care about her. (She thinks it's all her fault that her parents hate her.)] She and Tohru are really a lot alike. spoiler[When Tohru told her "being by yourself is scary. Being alone is a frightening way to live." those words were from Tohru's own heart and they resonated with Rin because they both have tried to do things completely on their own, they've both tried to dedicate themselves completely to those they care about, and they've both tried to pretend that nothing gets actually bothers them when inside they were suffering.] Rin's not as far along the road to true happiness as Tohru, but then she had to start a lot further back and contend with a lot more setbacks. When Rin is thinking about Tohru, spoiler[thinking that's she's falling apart, she knows that Tohru may be handling her pain better, but at the same time, she's breaking under the strain of trying to ignore the feelings inside herself. I think Rin suspects that Tohru is searching for a way to break the curse for almost the exact same reasons as herself. That scene with Kyo touching Tohru's forehead to check for a fever and Tohru's reaction to it are proof.] Well, this is an extremely long post already, so I'll talk about Machi and the rest of student council later! (I'll just leave off with just the following: I LOVE MACHI! Ah, sorry, I couldn't resist. I'll post more later!
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suna_suna
 Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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just because you started it,
spoiler[Machi and Yuki's mothers are very similar. they were both incredibly controling about teir children, and words really don't seem to have nuch of an effect on them (except Aya's). i don't think they ever found out about the exact circumstances of their respective childhoods, but its interesting ] |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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spoiler[Machi's mom like Yuki's mom does seem a bit heartless, and it seems a bit strange that she has Machi living in an apartment by herself. She must be messing up things pretty badly to get kicked out of her house by her parents before she's even out of high school.] A little more light will come onto the situation in later volumes.
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Well, it's another Friday and I have gotten through this week without having another car repair or getting sick! What a miracle!
Let's discuss Vol. 15. This starts off with Yuki's memories of being left with Akito. The panel on page 13 really cements my hatred of Yuki's mother: spoiler[I'm worried that the boy is too sickly and weak. He might make a poor companion and fall out of favor." First, she can't even refer to him by name and then she's worried that he'll fall out of favor?! Bitch! For such a young child, Akito was VERY good at mind games. I wonder how Akito got to be that way so young. I got the feeling that Yuki was almost to the point of suicide when he ran away. But, then he ran into Tohru's mother - going postal over Tohru's disappearance. And it seems that he was almost shocked to learn that some parents care for their children as much as Kyoko does Tohru.] It's interesting to see that, for as much as he drives Yuki insane, Kakeru is the one that Yuki is really able to open up to and speak about his feelings of his childhood and of Tohru. And, then we get to see the hilarity of the play and Tohru trying to be an Evil Stepsister!  Yeah, doesn't quite work, does it! But, Kinoshita steps up to the plate and re-writes everything and makes it work for the various personalities involved with the play. That's what I like about manga, whenever they use plays like this in the story, something goes wrong (or at least, sideways) and they are able to pull it off in rather unconventional ways (see Cardcaptor Sakura for two other examples of unusual casts!)
For the first time in a while, we see Kyo snap and snarl at Yuki but spoiler[then, for the first time Kyo REALLY looks at Yuki, in my opinion and sees the pain and sadness in Yuki's eyes and doesnt know what to do about it.] But back to the Play - I laughed throughout the entire chapter! But, Hana-chan's words to the Prince at the end, really struck a chord with Kyo - what does he want? Does he really want to be locked away all alone? |
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suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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Yuki's childhood is a sad story.
spoiler[i think the saddest part is when he says that he really wanted to be Kyo's friend. he never hated Kyo, but i'm not sure when he started to say he did. and now, he knows that Tohru and Kyo are falling in love (or, in Kyo's case, have already fallen) and despite the fact that he doesn't truly love tohru in the same way, he's jealous that they have found each other] the wierdest part of the play is that everyone seemed to say what they were really thinking about their own lives during it. especially spoiler[Tohru and Uotani]. and they play is hilarious. but Kinoshita didn't rewrite the play, it was an unnamed classmate, as Kinoshita was crying her eyes out after Yuki's comment. my favorite part of the volume is the scene where kyo is teasing tohru with the script |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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I just had to do this little observation:
I agreed with a lot of what you said before this quote but I just wanted to insist upon this pariticular idea, if you don't mind me:  I too think that spoiler[Rin has the intuition that Tohru wants to break the curse. And not just because the entire behaviour in Tohru screams that she wants to do that but also because Rin asks her something really important: "What is the most precious thing in the world to you?" At the moment Tohru didn't give any answer because she, I suspect, was more afraid to say it out loud than to be really conscious about it. I believe that at this point, Tohru already knew what she really wanted, because it was no wonder about her decision when she went and asked Kazuma about the curse.]
As you also mentioned, Richard, I too believe that Rin is one of the most kindest persons in the manga, contrary to what people believe about her in general. But what makes me like her even more is the fact that spoiler[when it comes to Tohru she knows how to make the right questions and as we all will see, the question that Rin made, will ask from Tohru a true answer which will change everything.] And by the way, we won't kill you, because we like to torment you with requests to write here. 
Now, coming back to the discussion that our lovely LydiaDianne started, this volume brings a lot of things outside. I think I'm not the only one who sees that in this volume there are a lot of subtleties related to the relationship between Yuki and Kyo. We have Yuki's childhood and how that b&%^*#$% Akito (I apologise for the fowl language that I sometimes use  ). spoiler[Yes, we come to meet the second worse parents in the manga (I'm sorry, but Rin's parents still rule together with Kyo's). It is almost impossible to believe that such persons exist and that they would sell their children for power. And then we have Akito, who is EVIL. Really mean, evil, name it however you like it, but she is evil. How could be so mean and torment Yuki?! And then we have his parents who take him and leave him there. And we also know that at this point Aya was also selling him for a bit of freedom. Ok, lots of freedom.]
But what really struck me about this chapter were the small details that Takaya-san sets for us. The relationship between Yuki and Kyo is still very difficult and we finally get to see how it was when they were smaller. spoiler[Their first meeting is not a very pleasant one, because while Yuki is startled by Kyo's beautiful orange hair and then by the huge sadness in his eyes, Kyo is very hateful and screams at Yuki, blaming him for all the horrible things that happened in his life. I was also intrigued by an observation that Akito makes. She says that Kyo promissed to kill Yuki and then kill himself. It is very interesting that Kyo has little respect for his person but also towards Yuki. And there's also the "cap" incident. It's very difficult to get all the right shades that the relationship between the cat and the mouse has.] I loved the Cinderella play for two moments: the first one spoiler[when Uo-chan screams "Come see me, damn it!" because we all now know that it is adressed to Kureno. The second one is when Hana-chan asks Kyo if he wants to lock himself away from the rest of the world. Kyo's immediate reply is that if he chooses so, nobody should care and at that moment Tohru intervenes. Oh, my frail heart rejoices even now! ]
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suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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as much as i don't like to admit it, spoiler[i feel sorry for akito about his breakdown after reading further. the reason he really lost it and began to attack yuki was because kureno's curse was just broken, and we saw his reaction to that in vol. 17. ]
and thespoiler[cap incident has another side to it as well, as revealed in vol. 20 i think] |
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aya_honda
Posts: 920 Location: Around here |
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You know, I have read Fruits Basket till the end a couple of times and I still hate to see Akito acting badly. Yes, I know she has her strong reasons, which later on in the manga are explained but for me, that's just not enough. Sorry.
As for the spoiler[the cap incident, there are two things connected to it. On the one thing, it can be discussed from the point of view of the relationship between Yuki and Kyo and on the other hand it can be discussed through the Tohru-Yuki-Kyo triangle. From the perspective of this chapter, I feel that the cap incident relates to Yuki's early admiration for Kyo. I mean, at the beginning it seems really odd: here it is, the most beloved zodiac wanting to be the outsider, the one who is most dispised. Yuki doesn't understand the imense sadness that he sees in Kyo's eyes and still he feels as he can relate to the beautiful orange-haired guy. He wants what Kyo has: a parent to love him (and we have the image of Kazuma hugging Kyo), friends (and we have Kyo going to school with Haru, Momiji and Kagura - and although he is pissed off by their presence, he unconsciously likes that) and a certain freedom that Yuki never had as a child. Well, he didn't know back then that Kyo was about to be locked away as soon as he finished high school  Those bastards!  ]
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suna_suna
Posts: 550 Location: Ohio |
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what yuki spoiler[hated the most about his meetings with Kyo, was the hatred that yuki saw in his eyes. he said he didn't want to be looked at with eyes of indifference(Ayame) or eyes of hate. and while Yuki was admiring what Kyo had, Kyo didn't think that he had anything. no parents, not even Kazuma, and that his life was worthless and he saw that yuki had a family and what seemed like everything that kyo could never have. yes, obviously yuki couldn't tell that.
the worst thing that akito kept saying to yuki was that he was hated, which was fairly true. but, once yuki got a chance, like with Haru, it's obvious that the only reason that anyone hated him was that no one had really talked to him, about what he was going through and what not. ] |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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I think that another example of Akito's manipulations and well as Yuki's parents. Akito spoiler[wanted to have a "pet" to torture" and Yuki's parents wanted the benefits of their child being Akito's "companion." While others saw that Yuki was with Akito and that his parents were living it up...they didn't see the Hell that Yuki was in. Akito, with malice aforethought, made the others hate Yuki so that Yuki would be isolated. Now that I think of it, I believe that Akito wanted ALL of the Zodiac to be isolated from each other so that the only person that they could/would look to for friendship was Akito. But what Akito didn't count on was that they were stronger in many ways and made friendships with each other and outsiders.] Which probably added to Akito's madness. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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The spoiler[early childhood of Yuki I see as isolated, never getting to be with the other Zodiac members, but Kyo had the same thing for the most part. I thought the most skin-bumping part of that story was when a little hand extended out to a big arm for help, but couldn't get it. I wonder how Yuki feels now about that little event between him and Ayame.]
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eyesopen0791
 Posts: 108 Location: A Sleepy Town in California |
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Hey I got too busy at work, so I fell behind on the FB discussion, but here I am again!
I agree with you, but I also wondered about Yuki's dad. HE was as much responsible for spoiler[Yuki's abandonment ]as much as his wife. I don't quite like that Yuki's mom seems to be the only target for hatred because of how she treated Yuki.  
You know, spoiler[I'm thinking it's because of the curse. It seems from almost the beginning, it has warped a very young Akito. Not that I feel any sympathy for Akito, just my guess.]
You know, it makes me ponder, I think that spoiler[very young or young children do not commit suicide. It's just my guess. I think that young children still have a natural optimism that would stop them from making that step. Now, teenagers, on the other hand, by their age, might have that optimism destroyed, plus with their higher than normal hormones, might have an easier time. I think that Yuki, if he had not had that brief contact with a loving family unit of Tohru and Kyoko and not feel that need from Tohru, he might have killed himself by age 15. Sheesh, morbid musings, aren't these? ]
Well, Yuki was ok with talking about his feelings with Tohru spoiler[until his feelings involved Tohru], and then he couldn't talk to her anymore. He didn't want her to feel burdened by them. It happens again and again in real life too when you talk about repressed feelings to a complete stranger, someone who's not really part of your life, you feel better for expressing your feelings.
I loved the play. I think the humor of it was needed after reading how spoiler[truly horrible Yuki's childhood was]. I love the scene where Kyo said No Way! and the narrator said Yes Way.  At first I thought the narrator was Kareku because of the hair, but now I think it looks like one of those nameless classmates that's always in the background. I love Hana's fixation on food, actually all of her lines were hilarious. And her messing with Kyo in relation to spoiler[Kazume.]
I have to say one thing about the costumes. The only ones that I thought were standouts, truly amazing were Yuki's and to a lesser degree, Kyo's. Yuki's was so beautiful, it looks very similar to what the Pope is wearing, and Kyo's look real neat, with the little hair tied back, sorta like Colonial/Revolutionary American period. The girls were meh, standard fairy tale-ish. I was expecting more brilliance considering Ayame was designing.
This puzzles me a little. Did the girl who rewrote the play wrote these lines or did Hana just said them just in reaction to what Kyo was saying? Well, I wrote a book here it seems, but one, more last thing. I checked my neighborhood Borders and they don't have Vol 18 in stock yet! Stupid bookstore! If it's released on a certain date, why don't they have it in stock?
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I think the question is rather spoiler[ how much of what she said was her own ideas and how much of what she said was just repeating "someone" (looking at Ren) words. I wouldn't be suprised if Ren told Akito that her life is worthless. and well Yuki was just started going to school so he was around 6,7 years old (I don't know how old are kids in Japan when they go to school) From volume 17 it is obvious that Akito isn't much older so at that time I think she could have been 8,9 or 10 years old at the most and sentences such as: "you are going through life on a black road" "this world is pitch-black" I would say it is abstract thinking and from what I remember according to Piaget abstract thinking start developing around age of twelve. The fact that Akito come up with such abstract ideas in so young age looks suspicious to me. Somehow I'm quite sure she received "help" from Ren.] |
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