Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Dragon Ball Super
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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I now have renewed and strengthened suspicions that the angels and Zen-oh actually are lieing about actually erasing universes if they lose. Whis stops Goku from asking Zen-oh to undo the erasing the losers rule because he'd likely just get punished even if he's Zen-oh's friend, but Bergamo didn't face any repercussion from doing the same thing and Zen-oh hasn't met him until this exhibition match. All he was given was a stipulation that they probably knew he would never be able to accomplish. Also, the addition of the no killing rule seems unnecessary if the losers are just going to erased anyway, unless their end goal isn't to have anyone die or be erased at all. Also with only one match, they aren't going to be expected to erase anyone until after the whole tournament's over, at which point they can reveal the truth.
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TenCentFang
Posts: 31 |
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I get that non-heroic Goku is closer to the source, but this hits close to home hard. Jeez. I used to have a lot of faith in Goku, but now his sociopathic dickishness is just beyond me.
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2892 |
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at least with the way they set up the tournament, it will be anything but generic, which I admit was looking as something tiresome.
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gedata
 Posts: 615 |
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No he isn't. Zeno and the Daishinkan pretty much forced his hand into this scenario by giving Bergamo the chance to save losing Universes, but threatening the destruction of all if he throws the match. Goku doesn't mind playing the heel if it'll inspire the other Universes to give their all against him but that doesn't necessarily make him a villain. God and his right hand are the jerks here but since their beyond reproach, Goku is essentially just the fall guy here. Last edited by gedata on Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I completely agree with gedata. But I'll add to it...
Bergamoi is not a good person, IMO, nor is he heroic. Him and his pals showed what sort of people they were in the events that led up to the reveal of what will happen to (some of) the losing Universes. But he has nothing to lose by making that request of the Zen-Ohs: his Universe is dead last. So, he does two things: blames Goku for everything, when all Goku did was express a desire to have a good fight between strong fighters -- Goku never suggested the losing Universes be defeated -- and ask for the erasure provision to be removed. This causes the other Universe's fighters to focus on Universe 7 (and Goku specifically) rather than his even lower level Universe. It also buys him sympathy and makes him appear like he cares about the other Universes. I don't for a moment believe he's being altruistic or that he is heroic. He's strong, brutal, and cunning, just like his brothers. I think it was Beerus that commented on this, though it might've been Whis. That's not to say that I think Goku is entirely off the hook over what happened, and maybe seeing some push-back on his single-minded desire to fight with the very strongest beings in existence is a good thing. But there is clearly some emotional manipulation going on by various parties. Goku probably realizes this but doesn't care as long as he gets the fights he wants. |
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Fatt_One
Posts: 131 Location: Ohio USA |
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That was a great episode.
There was something very pro wrestling about that whole thing, the way Bergamo and Goku were talking to the gods came across like they were "cutting promos", and Goku was very clearly ok with pushing himself as a heel(bad guy) if it means he gets to fight all the strongest dudes, universe be damned. This is best illustrated when he just absolutely refuses to deny any and all villain accusations thrown at him. While he's obviously not the bad guy, he is perfectly okay with being seen as the bad guy by all these universes so he gets to fight as many of their best fights as he can. |
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GhostD
Posts: 1031 |
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You forgot to mention that the tournament itself is basically a multiversal anime version of WWE's Royal Rumble PPV but much more intense lol |
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 960 |
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Called it! |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8489 Location: Penguinopolis |
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If Zeno was just going to erase the universes with the lowest mortal rating to begin with, then all Goku is doing is giving them the chance to redeem themselves. I don't see how Goku's usual carelessness in his pursuit of fighting strong guys is making him any more or less "evil" than he's ever been. It's just reflecting more poorly on him due to circumstance.
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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I think every Universe got that. It's more Goku's attitude rather than his actions. If anything, Goku got a chance for at least one Universe to survive, but his attitude is seemed as "barbarian" and that he doesn't care that his victory is destroying other universes. It's an interesting take on the conflict of "Kill one to save many/Kill many to save one". Goku doesn't come across as the guy who managed to convince Zen-Oh to not erase at least one universe, but the one who made a circus of it. And he is enjoying the idea of the tournament nonetheless since he only seess it as an exciting challenge, not about it forcing the universes to fight each other for their survival, and, even more atrocious, the last thing a universe does would be pleasing Goku's selfishess rather than just disappearing without knowing what even happened. So yeah, I would kick him in the ass if I was in the other GoD'ss shoes. |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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Goku's always been selfish and careless with his relationships and other's feelings and wellbeing--but he's surrounded by people who love him and forgive him easily, so he's never felt any real consequences for his actions. In this arc, a whole bunch of people will see him as a villain and it'll put everyone around him in more danger, which might actually open his eyes to how he hurts others. I think that's what people mean when they describe this arc as potentially character building for Goku. |
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belvadeer
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What are you, insaiyan? You can never be too big or strong. :D |
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#844391
Posts: 517 |
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Ep 82,
So, the tournament is in 40 hours, but are there seriously no fighters in the universe that either the supreme kai or beerus know of that are stronger than krillin, master roshi and tien? No wonder universe 7 is at the bottom of the barrel. At least Yamcha won't make it onto the team, if that happened universe 7 deserves to get destroyed hehe. |
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Sam Leach
 Posts: 53 |
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I think the "no killing" rule will end up being a strategic element when it comes to weaker fighters. |
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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Frieza's forces were made up of the strongest fighters of the universe until they lost a lot of them after Namek. And some of Frieza's elites after himself and the Ginyus were Dodoria and Zarbon, who Krillin and Tien have likely matched if not surpassed in power. Beerus probably wouldn't have any interest in aliens that low in tier, and Shin only really seems to take an interest in mortal affairs when it came to Buu, Babidi, and his forces. Otherwise, he's probably more concerned with the creation and development of life in universe 7, rather than paying attention to power levels (since he seemed pretty unaware of how strong Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta were when they fought Babidi's men). |
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